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RE: WitE 2 - 2/12/2016 11:08:38 AM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

No its simple math and we have seen the disaster of german players attacking from 42 on when pockets are not possible.

You can last 4-6 months longer doing nothing but RR set-up this has been proven yrs ago

Old news
Have we? And of course it's impossible to launch a major attack through the Ardennes. ;) Truth is history is littered with people of limited vision being bested by others who think outside the box.

As someone who cultivates their image of "best" Axis WitE player, you will be humbled to learn, actually be reminded, that I have no problem forming pockets in 42-43. I can't say for 44 as no Russian opponent has lasted that long though I think Smokey will. A rough count of eliminated units in our current game from T100-110 is 60-70.

< Message edited by Mehring -- 2/12/2016 12:11:06 PM >

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Post #: 331
RE: WitE 2 - 2/12/2016 4:17:11 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Pelton,

Along the line of things that we've all had plenty of information on to address over the past five years is the use of personal insults on the forum to try to get your way. You've long since been told that is unacceptable according to the forum rules and you've seen enough both on the outside and inside to know that it doesn't work or help. Passion, enthusiasm, persistence, criticism even to the point of being a pain is fine, insults are not. Given the number of warnings on this you've had in the past, we're back to an enforced cooling off period. You've got a two week vacation from the forum, please e-mail me when you feel you are ready to resume the discussion while keeping things civil.

Regards,

- Erik


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 2/12/2016 5:27:20 PM >

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(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 332
RE: WitE 2 - 2/12/2016 7:00:28 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		One thing I have been advocating is strategic reserve holding boxes. Once you place a unit off-map into one of these boxes, I would like to see the unit drop outdated equipment and have priority for current OB requirements. This should encourage the player to pull units voluntary off the front and ship them back west for a refit.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

We are currently reworking production to centre on chassis production from which variants will then build. This has distinct advantages in the setting of historical production. Within a fixed chassis production should we allow players the ability to change variant numbers?



If it goes hand in hand with the ability to choose ground unit equipment from a list of historically available/ToO&E compatible elements as per current air units, that would be a great step forward.

While on the subject of ToOE. Are late upgrading units ever going to jump over obsolete ToOEs straight to the latest in stead of plodding through the obsolete upgrade to get to the latest? Can't see any historical basis for this outside of Stalinist/Menshevik "two-stage theory" which isn't even relevant.



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(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 333
RE: WitE 2 - 2/12/2016 9:24:45 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

One thing I have been advocating is strategic reserve holding boxes. Once you place a unit off-map into one of these boxes, I would like to see the unit drop outdated equipment and have priority for current OB requirements. This should encourage the player to pull units voluntary off the front and ship them back west for a refit.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

We are currently reworking production to centre on chassis production from which variants will then build. This has distinct advantages in the setting of historical production. Within a fixed chassis production should we allow players the ability to change variant numbers?



If it goes hand in hand with the ability to choose ground unit equipment from a list of historically available/ToO&E compatible elements as per current air units, that would be a great step forward.

While on the subject of ToOE. Are late upgrading units ever going to jump over obsolete ToOEs straight to the latest in stead of plodding through the obsolete upgrade to get to the latest? Can't see any historical basis for this outside of Stalinist/Menshevik "two-stage theory" which isn't even relevant.



I like what you're driving at but can't help feeling that holding boxes are a relic of board games. To get the reserve question and any benefits right I think you have to look at why units were withdrawn and I'm not entirely sure of the answer. Possible reasons that occur to me are combinations of garrison duty, morale recovery, rest, training, and, as you say, reequipping, but this is largely speculation. I do know that German units in the West often received a compliment of new AFV in dribs and drabs over months, so there's a question mark in my mind as to how much benefit being in a quiet sector might give.

I would add to my post above the proviso that, to reduce player omnipotence, choosing equipment types for ground units should probably not be automatically successful. Distance from the front or a units presence in its home country or non-active area might help increase morale/experience and the chance of re-equipping success.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 334
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 12:21:36 AM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

quote:

ORIGINAL: No idea

Better tools for micromanagement should be among top priorities, imho. Simply shuffling support units is a pain. It would be far, far quicker an easier if there were two windows (like in the microsoft OS) and you could drag and drop


Great idea but I'm pretty sure drag and drop is a coding impossibility unfortunately.



Why would it be impossible to have a split screen or two windows to move things between?

Many applications/games do that....

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 335
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 7:22:53 PM   
Higgins001


Posts: 11
Joined: 4/11/2015
Status: offline 		Did Pelton really get booted for calling someone 'ignoranant' or am I missing something?
That's a pretty wimpy(if not humorous) insult to be tossed over, I think.
You know he pretty much argues with his same type. I'd cut them some slack. just saying.

(in reply to Tejszd)
Post #: 336
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 7:58:36 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Higgins001

Did Pelton really get booted for calling someone 'ignoranant' or am I missing something?
That's a pretty wimpy(if not humorous) insult to be tossed over, I think.
You know he pretty much argues with his same type. I'd cut them some slack. just saying.

I kind of agree with with what you say regarding ignorarant but I'd have you booted for calling me Pelton's type. Expletives to you, pal.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Higgins001)
Post #: 337
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 8:16:47 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Higgins001
Did Pelton really get booted for calling someone 'ignoranant' or am I missing something?
That's a pretty wimpy(if not humorous) insult to be tossed over, I think.
You know he pretty much argues with his same type. I'd cut them some slack. just saying.


He edited his post after the fact to make it less offensive. The ban was warranted.


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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



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(in reply to Higgins001)
Post #: 338
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 8:27:04 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		The fact is despite Pelton's sometimes colorful language he has done more for the current state of WITE than any other poster on this forum. This forum will be boring for the next two weeks

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Post #: 339
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 8:35:25 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Also, most of his adversaries have done absolutely nothing for the game in terms of catching bugs or exploits yet they deride his opinions while benefiting from his research. I could describe them in only the most derogatory terms myself quite happily but then I would be banned also.....

praise be to Pelton

we await your return

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Post #: 340
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 9:01:21 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Also, most of his adversaries have done absolutely nothing for the game in terms of catching bugs or exploits yet they deride his opinions while benefiting from his research. I could describe them in only the most derogatory terms myself quite happily but then I would be banned also.....

praise be to Pelton

we await your return

That's a very studiously placed "most" given my contribution to the development of this game since release.

< Message edited by Mehring -- 2/13/2016 10:02:38 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 341
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 9:07:59 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

That's a very studiously placed "most" given my contribution to the development of this game since release.


Yeah, great work.

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Post #: 342
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 9:36:07 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Another P "fanboy" here, despite having received some of his "generous" remarks.

Also support Erik, rules have no meaning unless enforced.

Welcome to Michael T, we shall enjoy many games together, oops, maybe not, I like to prepare for winter as axis player, and, to save my army as Red (summer 41).

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 343
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 9:47:42 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

Welcome to Michael T, we shall enjoy many games together, oops, maybe not, I like to prepare for winter as axis player, and, to save my army as Red (summer 41)


Thanks for the welcome. And you are absolutely correct, it would be a boring game for both of us.

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Post #: 344
RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2016 10:03:29 PM   
No idea

 

Posts: 495
Joined: 6/24/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring


quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

One thing I have been advocating is strategic reserve holding boxes. Once you place a unit off-map into one of these boxes, I would like to see the unit drop outdated equipment and have priority for current OB requirements. This should encourage the player to pull units voluntary off the front and ship them back west for a refit.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

We are currently reworking production to centre on chassis production from which variants will then build. This has distinct advantages in the setting of historical production. Within a fixed chassis production should we allow players the ability to change variant numbers?



If it goes hand in hand with the ability to choose ground unit equipment from a list of historically available/ToO&E compatible elements as per current air units, that would be a great step forward.

While on the subject of ToOE. Are late upgrading units ever going to jump over obsolete ToOEs straight to the latest in stead of plodding through the obsolete upgrade to get to the latest? Can't see any historical basis for this outside of Stalinist/Menshevik "two-stage theory" which isn't even relevant.



I like what you're driving at but can't help feeling that holding boxes are a relic of board games. To get the reserve question and any benefits right I think you have to look at why units were withdrawn and I'm not entirely sure of the answer. Possible reasons that occur to me are combinations of garrison duty, morale recovery, rest, training, and, as you say, reequipping, but this is largely speculation. I do know that German units in the West often received a compliment of new AFV in dribs and drabs over months, so there's a question mark in my mind as to how much benefit being in a quiet sector might give.

I would add to my post above the proviso that, to reduce player omnipotence, choosing equipment types for ground units should probably not be automatically successful. Distance from the front or a units presence in its home country or non-active area might help increase morale/experience and the chance of re-equipping success.


Your speculation is correct.

The current system makes leaving your divisions in the line or next to it a non issue, while irl most divisions were rotated in and out. A division that is left holding the line for long periods of time should see its experience reduced, perhaps its morale also, as veterans are killed and replaced with green troops and the veterans that are left reach their breaking point. Basically, the pointwhen they become less combat effective. According to the usa doctrine a men reaches his best combat efficiency after 90 days of combat. More than 120, it starts a slow decline. After 180 his combat efficiency is seriously reduced. So far i havent see that happening in the game, but perhaps i have been not paying enough attention to that.

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 345
RE: WitE 2 - 2/14/2016 10:02:47 AM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		@No Idea: interesting observation, but wonder what was Soviet/German experience or, for that matter, Axis allies.

Implementing this (using relevant factors) would be interesting, although believe its micro-eye candy more than vital factor. Always consider that "camouflage" is not modelled (IMHO correctly so), although visuals would be interesting.

(in reply to No idea)
Post #: 346
RE: WitE 2 - 2/14/2016 4:27:08 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Keep in mind the line at this scale.....the German divisions had 3 regiments for a reason---2 up front 1 in reserve even in defensive operations they tried to keep with this pattern or keep a reserve element of several battalions to rotate units off the line. Something you dont see at this scale of play.

One of the German commanders big complaints was that as the war went on and they were forced to hold more and more ground with less troops they lost this reserve/rotational force. Esp in Late war when German ToE went officially down to just 2 infantry regiments....another reason for the decline in the late war of the fighting ability of a german infantry division.

At this scale rotating divisions off the line shouldnt be required IMO....its to much of a pain in the butt in a game that is already very detail intensive to play.....as the player you know when a unit is beat up it needs pulled off or put in a quiet sector for a week to rebuild/refit. If the unit is already in a quiet sector they are most likely within their area of operations rotating troops around---thats the divisional commanders job not my job commanding the entire theater of war lol.

(in reply to swkuh)
Post #: 347
RE: WitE 2 - 2/14/2016 5:14:25 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Hi,

Back in the day, there was a patch that required the players to rotate units to get the front near full strength. The howls of micromanagement "hell" put a quick end to it.

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 348
RE: WitE 2 - 2/14/2016 5:46:17 PM   
morvael


Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Also there was a snowballing effect due to IGOYOUGO mechanics when one side was weaker and withdrawing, allowing full recovery for the stronger, advancing side, while it was't allowed to rest (as enemy moved back to contact on his turn and logistics happens after enemy move).

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 349
RE: WitE 2 - 2/18/2016 3:57:03 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		One thing I'd absolutely demand from WitE 2 is that they use the map style from WitE, and not the hideous style in WitW.

(in reply to HMSWarspite)
Post #: 350
RE: WitE 2 - 2/18/2016 6:19:41 PM   
uw06670


Posts: 221
Joined: 3/12/2015
Status: offline 		@SeriousCat

Hey, are you Loki's cat?

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
Post #: 351
RE: WitE 2 - 2/18/2016 6:40:55 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeriousCat

One thing I'd absolutely demand from WitE 2 is that they use the map style from WitE, and not the hideous style in WitW.


....ummm how can I break this to you gently? Oh yes the new map is more accurate, very moddable and has coded double rail lines and regions


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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 352
RE: WitE 2 - 2/19/2016 2:06:52 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		If we ever get to WitE 2 basic things should go in first and here I think replay is the most basic thing for a strategy game that is missing through the series.

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Post #: 353
RE: WitE 2 - 2/21/2016 6:30:03 PM   
malyhin1517


Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline 		In WITE uses a table changes the morality of Nations. Perhaps it would be interesting to do a change of morality depending on the course of fighting at the front. For example, if successful, the battles of national morality is growing, and if unsuccessful fall! And another question: if in WITE 2 support for Russian language in the game and Cyrillic in the names of units, cities, commanders, briefings to the scenarios?

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Post #: 354
RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2016 11:18:10 AM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Introducing changes to game code or data based upon progress of opponents is interesting, but would require significant research and careful analysis. Good luck.

Game code already uses balance factors, morale tables, supply/transportation/logistics calculations, and maybe much more. How to change these over time and outcomes would be difficult. There were those who "gave up" and those who became more fanatical at many levels of participation.

(in reply to malyhin1517)
Post #: 355
RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2016 12:11:33 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

If we ever get to WitE 2 basic things should go in first and here I think replay is the most basic thing for a strategy game that is missing through the series.


It has been discussed but in an IGO-UGO of this complexity it is incredibly difficult.

_____________________________

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to BigDuke66)
Post #: 356
RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2016 12:18:57 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

In WITE uses a table changes the morality of Nations. Perhaps it would be interesting to do a change of morality depending on the course of fighting at the front. For example, if successful, the battles of national morality is growing, and if unsuccessful fall!


An idea that was discussed in the WitE (not 2) Forum was linking national morale to manpower mobilisation. So as manpower levels drop you 'buy' more manpower at a cost in reduction of national morale. This abstracts the mobilisation of people in other age groups.

quote:


And another question: if in WITE 2 support for Russian language in the game and Cyrillic in the names of units, cities, commanders, briefings to the scenarios?


There is no plan to do so. The german translation for WitE was dropped for WitW and I expect cyrillic presents additional challenges.

_____________________________

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to malyhin1517)
Post #: 357
RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2016 3:57:37 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		Red, you guys should go "all out" to support your Rus customers, that's where your sales will be.

Eric, even a slight hint of disrespect, obvious joking excluded, should get a suspension.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 358
RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2016 4:36:44 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Red, you guys should go "all out" to support your Rus customers, that's where your sales will be.



I doubt it. 100€ for a game is too expensive for average man from Russia, Belarus or Ukraine.

(in reply to charlie0311)
Post #: 359
RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2016 6:10:32 PM   
uw06670


Posts: 221
Joined: 3/12/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

If we ever get to WitE 2 basic things should go in first and here I think replay is the most basic thing for a strategy game that is missing through the series.


It has been discussed but in an IGO-UGO of this complexity it is incredibly difficult.

quote:

It has been discussed but in an IGO-UGO of this complexity it is incredibly difficult



If not a true "replay" then a summary that is easier to digest than clicking on each of the battle sites to see what happened. Perhaps a list of battles where units Retreated, Routed, Shattered would be useful. If there is already something like this then I haven't seen it so far.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 360
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