[UPDATED DB v422] How to kill an Alfa

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[UPDATED DB v422] How to kill an Alfa

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[UPDATED DB v422] How to kill an Alfa - 2/6/2016 11:36:01 PM

trebor6669

Posts: 67
Joined: 1/11/2014
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Playing Keflavick Capers

How do you kill an Alfa
Seems he is too deep for any torpedo

He's at -1600ft
All Mk50 only goes down to -1500

Thanks

< Message edited by emsoy -- 2/13/2016 10:51:37 AM >

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/7/2016 1:13:44 AM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
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Very carefully

I think that the Mk50 on the P-3 can go to -1900ft, while the Mk-46 on most ships and Helo's will only go down to -1500. On the sea floor the Alpha can go to 700M or ~2100ft, so nothing can get him if it is deep enough.

Your other problem is that the bugger is fast - 42 knts, so even if you drop right over him and he is a great depth he might outrun the torp.

His problem is that he is loud and cannot launch his torps at max depth either, they are limited to 1500ft.

So, once you find him, its a waiting game and if he comes up to shoot you need to have at least 2 if not 3 shooters surrounding him and probably want to do some BOL launches to get in front of him.

Its a bit tricky.

(in reply to trebor6669)

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/7/2016 1:21:17 PM

cf_dallas

Posts: 303
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Grapevine, TX
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Problem, meet solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_depth_bomb

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/7/2016 4:36:05 PM

trebor6669

Posts: 67
Joined: 1/11/2014
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All
Thank you
My P3 launched MK46 onlt goes to -1500 as well
Hmmmm
Latest DB as well

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/7/2016 5:39:33 PM

FlyingBear

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Joined: 7/12/2014
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According to later sources (such as Polmar & Moore, "Cold War Submarines") the Alfa's legendary deep diving capability was a misinterpretation by Western intelligence services. The purpose of the titanium hull was to decrease weight and increase speed, not to reach extreme depths. Even the Wikipedia article on the subject now states similar information, citing 21st century Russian references.

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/7/2016 6:03:49 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
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If you think it's wrong guys lets get some data points up and do the things we need to do the make the change happen.

Thanks!

Mike

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/7/2016 7:59:28 PM

FlyingBear

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The reference I mention above (published in 2004) states as the reason for the titanium hull (page 141):

quote:

Compared to steel, titanium provided a number of advantages in Project 705:
- 30 percent lower mass
- 25 percent lower displacement
- 10 percent increase in speed
- reduction of magnetic field
- significantly lower operating costs as a result of the corrosive resistance of titanium alloy
The titanium hull, advanced fittings and ballast system, and other features would give the submarine a test depth of 1,300 feet (400 m), comparable to U.S. second-generation SSNs of the Thresher and later classes.

On page 144:

quote:

(The submarine could not operate at depths of 2,100 feet [640 m] or more, as estimated by the principal Western intelligence agencies.)

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/8/2016 12:20:10 AM

trebor6669

Posts: 67
Joined: 1/11/2014
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HERE is the SCEN

Attachment (1)

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/8/2016 12:24:19 AM

mikmykWS

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Thanks. Added issue to our list.

Mike

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/8/2016 7:18:17 AM

Zaslon

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Joined: 6/14/2015
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And what sources used Polmar & Moore?

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Kids think about Iran and Amateurs think about Russia, but professionals think about China

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/13/2016 9:50:28 AM

ComDev

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Have updated the database, thanks

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 2/24/2016 6:54:05 PM

magi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Have updated the database, thanks

This is cool� Because I could never get the Alpha when I played Keflavick Capers months ago......

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 3/1/2016 2:12:48 PM

Beckles

Posts: 128
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyingBear

The reference I mention above (published in 2004) states as the reason for the titanium hull (page 141):

quote:

Compared to steel, titanium provided a number of advantages in Project 705:
- 30 percent lower mass
- 25 percent lower displacement
- 10 percent increase in speed
- reduction of magnetic field
- significantly lower operating costs as a result of the corrosive resistance of titanium alloy
The titanium hull, advanced fittings and ballast system, and other features would give the submarine a test depth of 1,300 feet (400 m), comparable to U.S. second-generation SSNs of the Thresher and later classes.

Interesting, but at least one of those numbers is wrong. For a surface ship mass and displacement are directly proportional, so a 25 reduction in mass would result in a 25% reduction in displacement. For a submarine mass does not dictate displacement, displacement is dictated by the volume of the airtight hull (and to submerge the mass needs to exceed displacement, so the submarine needs to add enough weight, i.e. ballast, to make its mass exceed its displacement.) Ultimately the material a hull is made of does not impact the displacement of a submarine, a submarine of the exact same dimensions as the Alfa would displace the same whether made of Titanium alloy, steel, aluminum, plastic, concrete, etc. Of course the strengths of each of those would differ.

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RE: How to kill an Alfa - 3/1/2016 2:51:04 PM

FlyingBear

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Sure, but the mass and the displacement are still coupled by, e.g., the targeted reserve buoyancy. If the mass is lower the volume can be made smaller and the displacement is thereby reduced.

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