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Looking for Insight - 3/6/2016 4:57:49 PM

Rand6897

Posts: 79
Joined: 2/26/2015
Status: offline

Just starting to learn this game, I quickly played a Global War until Summer '40 before I decided that I'd mucked up too many plays.
So I'm starting again with a bit more thought going into the setup, especially for the Nat. Chinese. That brief game and my inexperience has generated a few questions that make me wonder how others see some situations. I would appreciate any insight on the following.

1) Finnish Boarder Hexes: Are they a worthwhile endeavor for the Soviets.
2) Norway seems like a tough nut to crack quickly. I could be wrong but it appears Oslo can be defended by 6 factors so an invasion of that hex requires a large commitment of forces, especially air.
How and when do you go after Norway without inviting too much interference from the RN.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Post #: 1

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/6/2016 5:29:39 PM

AlbertN

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline

1- As Soviet I weight very well how Finland can bog me down. It could be wise to not go for Finland either at all. Anyhow if you wish to go for Finland, ensure to wait for good weather, have your units well placed and located and be ready to sneak 1 unit in a hex of Finland proper so they cannot sue for peace. A smart Axis player, seeing the Soviets are well prepared for that - will just surrender the Finnish border more so than risking to lose Finland for later entirely.

2- Don't. Germany has no need for Norway, there is 1 resource for you and you will give to the W.Allies an insane amount of ships (CPs, and TRS included!). By how the seazones are placed, Norway won't give you any real benefit - since their bases give to the same sea zone as German ports - excluding Narvik but I doubt you want to sit a HQ there or keep convoys in the North Sea to supply it.
You could still try to get to Oslo with due preparations, not necessarily invade it straight away but if you don't you expose yourself bigtime. (UK can ship in a unit and eventually rail move it in the same turn.)
In the end you'll give a foothold and airbases north of Germany to the UK, in a position from which it's difficult to dislodge them (but later on they can pay fee if you build a NAV armada and play with LoS)

But just in general, 1 extra resource for you + the need to man the place with troops vs giving 13 CPs, 1 TRS and more sacrificial ships to the UK is silly.
Poor design in my eyes - from the game perspective - but that is how it is.

(in reply to Rand6897)

Post #: 2

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/6/2016 6:39:23 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

I don't know if it is poor design or if it is intential. It is a fact that the Norwegian merchantfleet (just as the Greek and Dutch merchantmen) became CW controlled after the Axis attacked those countries.

I've never understood why the British didn't hold on to Narvik in 1940. They had the place under control and there was nothing that Germany could have done about it anymore. The Norwegian campaign got very high losses on the German side, especially on the Kriegsmarine, who's losses were horrendous.

The Norwegian army and navy are adequately represented in the game. The only thing one could discuss about is the positioning of the Sea zones. Perhaps their should have been a minor port in Norway on the border of those seazones. But that's about it, I believe.

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(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 3

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/7/2016 1:21:26 AM

Courtenay

Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rea6897

Just starting to learn this game, I quickly played a Global War until Summer '40 before I decided that I'd mucked up too many plays.
So I'm starting again with a bit more thought going into the setup, especially for the Nat. Chinese. That brief game and my inexperience has generated a few questions that make me wonder how others see some situations. I would appreciate any insight on the following.

1) Finnish Boarder Hexes: Are they a worthwhile endeavor for the Soviets.
2) Norway seems like a tough nut to crack quickly. I could be wrong but it appears Oslo can be defended by 6 factors so an invasion of that hex requires a large commitment of forces, especially air.
How and when do you go after Norway without inviting too much interference from the RN.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I have never figured out a good reason to invade Finland for the Soviets. The US entry effect is the real killer; if it weren't for that, taking out the Finns might be a good idea. As it is, I don't do it.

Also, there is no good reason for the Axis to invade Norway; the Norwegian merchant marine is just too large to give to the CW. The problem is that Hitler and Churchill were playing by different rules than WiF -- both thought that the CW could interfere with the German iron ore shipments without going to war with Norway. Since a mechanism for doing so is lacking in WiF, both sides usually leave Norway alone.

About the Chinese: the Communists are very vulnerable at the start of the game. If the Nationalists don't help them out, the Japanese can run them off the board. In particular, the Nationalists should put two good, cheap units (GAR or Warlords) in Chengchow. Unless the weather in S/O '39 is exceptionally good, these should give the Communists enough time to survive. Without them, if the Japanese attack the Communists Sian will almost certainly fall, and the Japanese have a decent chance of pushing on to Lanchow.

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Post #: 4

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/7/2016 5:48:37 AM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

I think for Norway to be worth either side going after, at least one thing that might do it would be to get rid of the Norwegian sea zone, have Bergen be a two front port (North Sea/Faroes Gap), and Narvik be a two front port as it is, but Arctic/Denmark sea zones. That way as the Germans you can get naval assets deep into the CW Atlantic convoys at light speed (Bismarck), and as the CW you try to stop that from happening. Also, airpower can be projected easily into the Faroes and Denmark Sea zones, combined with the Bay of Biscay when France falls, and you could really do a number on Britain.

Of course this is something MWiF can not do...it would require the board game higher ups to be receptive to making changes to increase the worth of Norway what ever that might become.

Historically: I don't understand why Germany did not assist Sweden in getting the infrastructure in place so as to not need Norway. Norway continued to be a big mistake through out the war even to the very end with the crazy assets the Germans kept there that they could have used elsewhere...I think I read somewhere that it was around 750,000 men, but I might be confusing that with the Jap number in Manchuria.

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 3/7/2016 5:56:01 AM >

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Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Courtenay)

Post #: 5

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/7/2016 7:14:19 AM

Mayhemizer_slith

Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline

Germany had at its peak 400 000 men in Norway (population of Norway was 4 million at the time).

At the end of the war some German leaders wanted to make Norway "the last fortress" when Germany was collapsing.

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Post #: 6

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/7/2016 8:38:58 AM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

I believe I read somewhere that after the German surrender they still had 300,000 troops in Norway.

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Post #: 7

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/7/2016 9:19:39 PM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

Wow...300k-400k there, plus another 200k in Kurland/Baltics. I wonder what impact those troops would have had if they had been available vs USSR Warsaw/Berlin?

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Post #: 8

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/10/2016 6:13:39 AM

Rand6897

Posts: 79
Joined: 2/26/2015
Status: offline

Thanks for the info. I'm working on some diplomatic tables to deal with Norway and a few other things (Attacking The Netherlands and Belgium remaining neutral).

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Post #: 9

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/11/2016 4:04:28 AM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline

If you want to tinker with diplomacy...check out DoDIII (Days of Decision III). Very good diplomatic system.

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Post #: 10

RE: Looking for Insight - 3/11/2016 1:05:26 PM

nilssone85

Posts: 57
Joined: 5/29/2015
Status: offline

Don�t forget the Heavy water plant in Norway! Crucial for the German nuclear programme.