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RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/6/2016 3:34:51 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

I think Matrix holds the record on the most expensive games, up there close to $100 bucks.

As for cost... I always use my cost vs. enjoyment factor ratio analysis... it goes like this:

Entertainment is worth approx. $8 per hour (cost of a movie+popcorn, cost of amusement park per hour, etc.) - you can use whatever "factor" you want.

So... a game costing $50 should get you at LEAST 6-7 hours. HOI4 will likely get you closer to 35-50 hours of game time. That's a great bargain.

Hope that helps ease the pain of paying for a solid game.


You're not considering "that's if the person likes it" not everyone likes Paradox gammes. I can only stomach CKII and EU:Rome as when I feel like a "popcorn and candy" game I'll go to them.

Wargames should be wargames not a mix of popcorn and candy and butter". Matrixgames/Slitherine make wargames, Paradox makes the casual wargamer games with very little thought for accuracy or what really happened. I once saw Japan invade France for goodness sake. Might as well play "Making History I & II" at least you get the turn based version.

You don't see an Angry Joe video when a Matrixgame/Slitherine game comes out, but, you certainly will see the Adolph Hitler videos when the HOI's come out.

(in reply to geozero)
Post #: 61
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/6/2016 8:08:55 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah the game going to suck for awhile, that why they didn't release it yet. A lot of balance and improvement is needed badly. Just like HoI 3, it was terrible when first came out.

I wouldn't buy this when it comes out, you will regret it. Wait six months to a year when you do, least you wont spend too much money on it at first.

It is easy to make a strategy game without history, when you are making something compare or rewrite the history boards, it is more challenging, more work as well a lot of testing.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 3/6/2016 1:22:25 PM >

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Post #: 62
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/6/2016 1:09:48 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

You're not considering "that's if the person likes it" not everyone likes Paradox gammes. I can only stomach CKII and EU:Rome as when I feel like a "popcorn and candy" game I'll go to them.

Wargames should be wargames not a mix of popcorn and candy and butter". Matrixgames/Slitherine make wargames, Paradox makes the casual wargamer games with very little thought for accuracy or what really happened. I once saw Japan invade France for goodness sake. Might as well play "Making History I & II" at least you get the turn based version.

You don't see an Angry Joe video when a Matrixgame/Slitherine game comes out, but, you certainly will see the Adolph Hitler videos when the HOI's come out.





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Post #: 63
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 12:15:36 AM   
RyanCrierie


Posts: 1461
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'm pretty disappointed that they're trying to simulate EVERY SINGLE HOUR in WW2 again. They could have cut it down to pulses of maybe 3 hours each.

That would help with gameplay speed in the "road to war" scenarios, while retaining the granularity needed for airstrikes and such, or different times of day.

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Post #: 64
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 2:24:27 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

I'm pretty disappointed that they're trying to simulate EVERY SINGLE HOUR in WW2 again. They could have cut it down to pulses of maybe 3 hours each.

That would help with gameplay speed in the "road to war" scenarios, while retaining the granularity needed for airstrikes and such, or different times of day.

All the HOI series game clock's speed can be increased,slowed down,paused,your complaint does not make any sense

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 3/7/2016 2:25:25 AM >

(in reply to RyanCrierie)
Post #: 65
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 6:43:48 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		I can see where he's headed with his idea and it makes sense.


(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 66
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 9:19:37 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

I'm pretty disappointed that they're trying to simulate EVERY SINGLE HOUR in WW2 again. They could have cut it down to pulses of maybe 3 hours each.

That would help with gameplay speed in the "road to war" scenarios, while retaining the granularity needed for airstrikes and such, or different times of day.


You can change the speed, one is very slow to highest around five or six hours per cycle.

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Post #: 67
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 12:04:07 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		I dont see why the complaints from people who have stated they have zero interest in the product,why bitch and moan about a product if you are not going to purchase it?And if you do want changes made to the product,better to post on the Paradox forum.Why post here?What is the point?Also worth mentioning the OP is from 2014,there have been many changes to HOI4 since then.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 3/7/2016 12:41:24 PM >

(in reply to Rising-Sun)
Post #: 68
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 2:11:54 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I dont see why the complaints from people who have stated they have zero interest in the product,why bitch and moan about a product if you are not going to purchase it?And if you do want changes made to the product,better to post on the Paradox forum.Why post here?What is the point?Also worth mentioning the OP is from 2014,there have been many changes to HOI4 since then.


Same could be said turning it around.

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 69
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 5:41:58 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Impressive thread necro... most impressive.

I'm looking forward to the game. I enjoy the sandbox type game and even though it says it's a ww2, like most games, it won't turn out like ww2 and I'm fine with that.

I've noticed that as I've gotten older (44 now), I'm less interested in games like witp or wite although I still enjoy them, just not like I did when I was younger. I think it has to do with a general bleh feeling towards computer gaming in general that been coming on...

I used to game every day or near it. Now I'm lucky if I pull up a game once a week. I just don't have the pull to play anything like I used to have.

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Post #: 70
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 5:57:04 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Impressive thread necro... most impressive.

I'm looking forward to the game. I enjoy the sandbox type game and even though it says it's a ww2, like most games, it won't turn out like ww2 and I'm fine with that.

I've noticed that as I've gotten older (44 now), I'm less interested in games like witp or wite although I still enjoy them, just not like I did when I was younger. I think it has to do with a general bleh feeling towards computer gaming in general that been coming on...

I used to game every day or near it. Now I'm lucky if I pull up a game once a week. I just don't have the pull to play anything like I used to have.


There is alot of great Sandbox & Open World games on Steam!
http://store.steampowered.com/tag/browse/#global_1695
http://store.steampowered.com/tag/browse/#global_3810

Patrick

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Post #: 71
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 6:21:34 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Thanks,

I've been looking, but nothing is really grabbing my attention. The one's that do, I either own or own a previous version such as gal civ.

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Post #: 72
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 9:19:59 PM   
RyanCrierie


Posts: 1461
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
All the HOI series game clock's speed can be increased,slowed down,paused,your complaint does not make any sense


Actually, it does.

Back in 2010, I tried playing HOI3 when I got it for $7.50 online. I wanted to like it (I have a soft spot for HOI1 and I did some of the first big tech mods for that game); but...

HOI3 Patch 1.04
Road To War 1936 Scenario
1920x1080 60 Hz
Core 2 Quad Q6600; 8 GB RAM, Geforce 8800 GTS

It takes about 4-5 seconds for each day in January 1936 at the fastest speed possible. By that average, it takes 150 seconds (2.5 minutes) for a 30-day month to pass. That comes out to 1800 seconds (30 minutes) for a year to pass.

1936-1939 is three years. That's 1.5 hours of doing nothing but staring at the screen as the US waiting for war to break out.

If you went from 24 pulses per day to just 5 pulses a day; you'd be able to play 1936-1939 in about 30 minutes, instead of 1.5 hours.

Plus of course, the game does slow down the longer you play it as more units get moved around and the AI is doing more and more; so..

Five pulses a day would mean that a complete 1936-1945 game would take about just about 90-120 minutes to play in total; and because there are multiple strategies possible in WWII; or different nations you can play each time; you'd still get a lot of replay value from the game.

< Message edited by RyanCrierie -- 3/7/2016 9:24:42 PM >

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Post #: 73
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/7/2016 9:50:31 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline 		I could never get into this game with all the popups even though you could control it,

(in reply to RyanCrierie)
Post #: 74
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 12:48:26 AM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
All the HOI series game clock's speed can be increased,slowed down,paused,your complaint does not make any sense


Actually, it does.

Back in 2010, I tried playing HOI3 when I got it for $7.50 online. I wanted to like it (I have a soft spot for HOI1 and I did some of the first big tech mods for that game); but...

HOI3 Patch 1.04
Road To War 1936 Scenario
1920x1080 60 Hz
Core 2 Quad Q6600; 8 GB RAM, Geforce 8800 GTS

It takes about 4-5 seconds for each day in January 1936 at the fastest speed possible. By that average, it takes 150 seconds (2.5 minutes) for a 30-day month to pass. That comes out to 1800 seconds (30 minutes) for a year to pass.

1936-1939 is three years. That's 1.5 hours of doing nothing but staring at the screen as the US waiting for war to break out.

If you went from 24 pulses per day to just 5 pulses a day; you'd be able to play 1936-1939 in about 30 minutes, instead of 1.5 hours.

Plus of course, the game does slow down the longer you play it as more units get moved around and the AI is doing more and more; so..

Five pulses a day would mean that a complete 1936-1945 game would take about just about 90-120 minutes to play in total; and because there are multiple strategies possible in WWII; or different nations you can play each time; you'd still get a lot of replay value from the game.


1) You don't have to start in 1936, HOI3 has several starting points. I think almost one for each year from 1939-1944.

2) They also added a tool where you can start in 1939 or whatever and they give you points to spend on units and tech. So you can skip the building up years and still customize what you start with to match what you would have done.


Personally, I'm really looking forward to HOI4. I liked the previous titles, though they weren't quite what I wanted, but 4 looks like it will really scratch that itch. Seems a lot more sand-boxy.

(in reply to RyanCrierie)
Post #: 75
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 2:53:33 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

Actually, it does.



1936-1939 is three years. That's 1.5 hours of doing nothing but staring at the screen as the US waiting for war to break out.



Doing nothing???As the USA 1936 start you make decisions to fix economy,trade,diplomacy,decide what techs to research,chose your production etc etc.I would not call that "doing nothing".

(in reply to RyanCrierie)
Post #: 76
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 9:09:11 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Impressive thread necro... most impressive.

I'm looking forward to the game. I enjoy the sandbox type game and even though it says it's a ww2, like most games, it won't turn out like ww2 and I'm fine with that.

I've noticed that as I've gotten older (44 now), I'm less interested in games like witp or wite although I still enjoy them, just not like I did when I was younger. I think it has to do with a general bleh feeling towards computer gaming in general that been coming on...

I used to game every day or near it. Now I'm lucky if I pull up a game once a week. I just don't have the pull to play anything like I used to have.



I feel ya bro. Been that way since age 50 now I think. Games just aren't what they used to be. Seems too much of the same ole same ole with a different number beside it. Take HOI even for instance, now they are fixing to release a IV? I've just seen it get worse over every rendition not better. II was a bit better than I I have to admit but, it's still a HOI.

For grand campaign WW2 I need something with a bit more bite and not a lot of fluff. They took away the ability to take away the FOW in the last one so we couldn't really watch how bad the AI really is.

I've gotten away though from grand campaigns anyways and gone to tactical. Those are more fun and don't have to be a real scenario to get into them. X-Com in a WW2 format would be a great idea I think. Get rid of the alien armor and make more realistic powerups and researched items.

Panzer Command: Osfront, Command Ops and Norbsoft's Civil War series is the way to go now (for me). Anytime I feel the blaa's those are the games I pull out now. Though I think I would pull out a new Warlords V if they made it right. ALways did like that one and the combat model for a weekend game.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 3/8/2016 9:10:53 AM >

(in reply to Reiryc)
Post #: 77
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 12:16:10 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Many really enjoy the series but it isn't for me. CK2 and EUIV though I really enjoy.

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Post #: 78
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 12:51:06 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		I own EUIV. Once you start playing it´s difficult to stop, that´s what I want for any game. Paradox have been publishing free megapatches (every 2 or 3 months) and DLCs since 2013 and they will continue for a long time. Is it easy to find out there? NO

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Post #: 79
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 9:12:36 PM   
RyanCrierie


Posts: 1461
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
Doing nothing???As the USA 1936 start you make decisions to fix economy,trade,diplomacy,decide what techs to research,chose your production etc etc.I would not call that "doing nothing".


That takes all of maybe 3 minutes; then you have to spend time waiting for everything to finish, for new research lines to open up, etc. You really can't do much as the USA c.1936 without some prep time; as opposed to other nations which already have sizable militaries.

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Post #: 80
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/8/2016 9:51:08 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4591
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie
Alternate Wars


Ryan, your website is quite impressive, tons of great info! Thanks!

Patrick


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Post #: 81
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/9/2016 12:13:33 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Many really enjoy the series but it isn't for me. CK2 and EUIV though I really enjoy.


I'm with you except replace EU:IV with EU:Rome

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 82
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/9/2016 12:16:45 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Funny, I just installed (an uninstalled) EU:Rome. Most regard it as the worst EU title, but glad you found something to like about it, aaatoysandmore

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Post #: 83
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/9/2016 12:22:39 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Yeah is great fun if you play a neutral faction and not Rome all the time. Playing Rome it felt like a rail game but when I started playing other factions it became more of a challenge. Especially the faction in Spain. I had so many revolts and coops it was funny.

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Post #: 84
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/9/2016 12:24:56 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Funny, I just installed (an uninstalled) EU:Rome. Most regard it as the worst EU title, but glad you found something to like about it, aaatoysandmore


That's how I've felt about all the EU's EXCEPT Rome. I just can't get into them and this last one IV I can't even see the words. They just kept making the font smaller and smaller until finally it's no longer playable for me.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 85
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/9/2016 10:27:25 AM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I just can't get into them and this last one IV I can't even see the words. They just kept making the font smaller and smaller until finally it's no longer playable for me.


Try this mod


_____________________________

Las batallas contra las mujeres son las únicas que se ganan huyendo.

NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE


Cuando el necio oye la verdad se carcajea, porque si no lo hiciera la verdad no sería la verdad.

LAO TSE

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Post #: 86
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 3/9/2016 1:06:25 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I just can't get into them and this last one IV I can't even see the words. They just kept making the font smaller and smaller until finally it's no longer playable for me.


Try this mod



I think steam is kinda tired of me asking for a refund on the game everytime someone came up with an idea or mod to improve the font. I've tried them all and they just aren't big enough.

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 87
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 6/9/2016 5:50:27 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		Agree with you and Wodin. I like HOI 4. Bought it day 1. It has a few issues but what new release does not. I can understand some of the HOI hardcore gamers (you have to be hardcore or it would be near impossible to play) not liking HOI 4. Personally I just could never get into the earlier versions. HOI 4 is no beer and pretzel game, no where close but I believe it is more approachable for a larger base of gamers.

I found this play through very insightful and entertaining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyCL1LIESR8

quote:

ORIGINAL: M J R

I agree with you there Wodin, CK2, EUIII, EUIV i can play, not expertly, but understand and enjoy them.
Hearts Of Iron II and III i have tried over the years but they give me a head ache.
The new version oh Hearts Of Iron looks like something i might be able to wrap my head around :)



< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/9/2016 6:51:14 PM >

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Post #: 88
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 6/9/2016 8:49:35 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		When you choose a historical battle plan do you still have to give the units orders? Or do they then follow the battle plan?

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Post #: 89
RE: HOI 4 disappointing preview - 6/9/2016 9:05:34 PM   
Tac2i


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: WV USA
Status: offline 		When you attack an enemy you can use battle plans to do so (draw a line where you wish them to advance and they will attempt to fight their way there). If you so choose you can also order individual divisions. You can also set a drop back line and your army will retreat to it and defend. View some of the excellent YouTube videos to get a feel for the game.

There is a settings where you can set nations to more or less stay closer to how things played out historically but that is not a guarantee that things will go completely historical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

When you choose a historical battle plan do you still have to give the units orders? Or do they then follow the battle plan?



< Message edited by Webizen -- 6/9/2016 9:35:51 PM >

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Post #: 90
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