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Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap

 
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Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/25/2016 8:12:12 AM   
JonS


Posts: 16
Joined: 1/22/2016
Status: offline 		Throughout the Italian Campaign the British Command maintained a shared fantasy about debouching into southern Germany via the Ljubljana Gap north-east of Trieste. On several occasions - especially before the departure of forces for Op DRAGOON - they tried to convince the Americans of the wisdom of that approach vs. a head-on assault up through France. They were spectacularly unsuccessful, as the US Army clung doggedly to their fascination with the direct assault straight into the enemy's strength.

So much for history.

In a current WitW '43 campaign against the AI I find myself in the situation of being able to try out a Ljubljana Gap strategy, except ... I can't. I have plenty of forces in the area, I've just taken Trieste, the rest of Italy is clear up to the southern edge of the Alps, so I'm good to go. But for some reason Yugoslavia is impassable. I'm trying to wriggle around through the pass that runs from Tarvisio through Villach (which has just fallen) and on to Klagenfurt, which will probably work but is a lot less than optimal. Edit: Actually, I just noticed that the rail line takes a hard left just after Klagenfurt and heads north through the Alps, which means that any forces I send that way will move increasingly far from their supply rail head unless or until I also clear the Alps ... which kinda defeats the purpose of going through the pass.

Does anyone know why I mightn't be able to get into Yugo, and what I can do to remove that restriction?

Cheers
Jon

< Message edited by JonS -- 4/30/2016 6:26:31 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/25/2016 8:29:54 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		The game has made a pragmatic decision to remove Yugoslavia from the playable area. I think this simplified development a lot (no need to model the complex partisan war in the Balkans etc). However, the closure to the allies is, I think, realistic.

Even if the fantasy of the Ljubljana gap was militarily valid, there was the political issue of Tito's Partisan army. This has just (not very gently) nudged the Red Army out of their territory after the fall of Belgrade and would have been less than welcoming to any Anglo-American units. Worth remembering that one of the final acts of the war in Italy was the British racing Tito's forces for control of Trieste - and that came very close to being open conflict (Tito wanted the city as a bargaining chip).

So you can't do it due to the game engine, but I think it usefully models a realistic (political) constraint. Of course if the Allies had reached that area in say mid-44 then there would have been little that Tito's forces could have done but by 1945 it would have been very risky as a political move.

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RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/26/2016 6:18:39 AM   
comte


Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline 		I found this discussion on the Axis History forums about the Ljubljana gap Myth. There are a lot of book quotes in it.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153670

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But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them.

-Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III-

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RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/26/2016 7:09:09 AM   
JonS


Posts: 16
Joined: 1/22/2016
Status: offline
quote:

Of course if the Allies had reached that area in say mid-44 then there would have been little that Tito's forces could have done

Heh, well, I'm there - in strength - in Sept '44

But apparently it's a permanent albeit artificial constraint, so instead I'll do the "realistic" thing and move on up and over the Alps.

< Message edited by JonS -- 5/1/2016 2:14:17 AM >

(in reply to comte)
Post #: 4
RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/26/2016 8:15:19 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Except the Ljubljana Gap was a legitimate line of approach for the Allies.

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Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/27/2016 5:20:39 PM   
kosmoface

 

Posts: 111
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline 		I sometimes wish for bigger WHAT IFs in WITW. Just like in Command Ops. I greatly enjoy these Missions, where I can play out abandoned plans.

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 6
RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/11/2017 2:45:54 PM   
IslandInland


Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline 		I've changed the nationality of some of the Yugoslavia hexes to German. I did it in the editor and it was quite easy to do.

I loaded the 43-45 scenario, made the changes and saved the scenario with a different name - "No Yugoslavia".

I've loaded up the scenario and started a game against the AI to see how it would react to my invasion of Trieste-Pola-Fiume. It seems to doing quite well so far as you can see.

The Ljubljana Gap is open.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by XXXCorps -- 4/11/2017 3:05:59 PM >

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War In The East 2 Beta Tester and
War In The West Operation Torch Beta Tester
XXXCorps

(in reply to JonS)
Post #: 7
RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/11/2017 2:49:55 PM   
IslandInland


Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline 		Here are the hexes I changed in the editor.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

War In The East 2 Beta Tester and
War In The West Operation Torch Beta Tester
XXXCorps

(in reply to IslandInland)
Post #: 8
RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap - 4/11/2017 3:01:28 PM   
IslandInland


Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline 		This is how the map is by default.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

War In The East 2 Beta Tester and
War In The West Operation Torch Beta Tester
XXXCorps

(in reply to IslandInland)
Post #: 9
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