Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (Full Version)

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JonS -> Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/25/2016 8:12:12 AM)

Throughout the Italian Campaign the British Command maintained a shared fantasy about debouching into southern Germany via the Ljubljana Gap north-east of Trieste. On several occasions - especially before the departure of forces for Op DRAGOON - they tried to convince the Americans of the wisdom of that approach vs. a head-on assault up through France. They were spectacularly unsuccessful, as the US Army clung doggedly to their fascination with the direct assault straight into the enemy's strength.

So much for history.

In a current WitW '43 campaign against the AI I find myself in the situation of being able to try out a Ljubljana Gap strategy, except ... I can't. I have plenty of forces in the area, I've just taken Trieste, the rest of Italy is clear up to the southern edge of the Alps, so I'm good to go. But for some reason Yugoslavia is impassable. I'm trying to wriggle around through the pass that runs from Tarvisio through Villach (which has just fallen) and on to Klagenfurt, which will probably work but is a lot less than optimal. Edit: Actually, I just noticed that the rail line takes a hard left just after Klagenfurt and heads north through the Alps, which means that any forces I send that way will move increasingly far from their supply rail head unless or until I also clear the Alps ... which kinda defeats the purpose of going through the pass.

Does anyone know why I mightn't be able to get into Yugo, and what I can do to remove that restriction?

Cheers
Jon



loki100 -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/25/2016 8:29:54 AM)

The game has made a pragmatic decision to remove Yugoslavia from the playable area. I think this simplified development a lot (no need to model the complex partisan war in the Balkans etc). However, the closure to the allies is, I think, realistic.

Even if the fantasy of the Ljubljana gap was militarily valid, there was the political issue of Tito's Partisan army. This has just (not very gently) nudged the Red Army out of their territory after the fall of Belgrade and would have been less than welcoming to any Anglo-American units. Worth remembering that one of the final acts of the war in Italy was the British racing Tito's forces for control of Trieste - and that came very close to being open conflict (Tito wanted the city as a bargaining chip).

So you can't do it due to the game engine, but I think it usefully models a realistic (political) constraint. Of course if the Allies had reached that area in say mid-44 then there would have been little that Tito's forces could have done but by 1945 it would have been very risky as a political move.



comte -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/26/2016 6:18:39 AM)

I found this discussion on the Axis History forums about the Ljubljana gap Myth. There are a lot of book quotes in it.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153670



JonS -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/26/2016 7:09:09 AM)

quote:

Of course if the Allies had reached that area in say mid-44 then there would have been little that Tito's forces could have done

Heh, well, I'm there - in strength - in Sept '44 [;)]

But apparently it's a permanent albeit artificial constraint, so instead I'll do the "realistic" thing and move on up and over the Alps. [:D] [sm=dizzy.gif]



JeffroK -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/26/2016 8:15:19 AM)

Except the Ljubljana Gap was a legitimate line of approach for the Allies.



kosmoface -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/27/2016 5:20:39 PM)

I sometimes wish for bigger WHAT IFs in WITW. Just like in Command Ops. I greatly enjoy these Missions, where I can play out abandoned plans.



IslandInland -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/11/2017 2:45:54 PM)

I've changed the nationality of some of the Yugoslavia hexes to German. I did it in the editor and it was quite easy to do.

I loaded the 43-45 scenario, made the changes and saved the scenario with a different name - "No Yugoslavia".

I've loaded up the scenario and started a game against the AI to see how it would react to my invasion of Trieste-Pola-Fiume. It seems to doing quite well so far as you can see.

The Ljubljana Gap is open.[;)]



[image]local://upfiles/50613/E3CA8FDA0E18431CB2F7C9397A6078D8.jpg[/image]



IslandInland -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/11/2017 2:49:55 PM)

Here are the hexes I changed in the editor.



[image]local://upfiles/50613/F9916B3C4EC1428EAFC991C5CEDDABFC.jpg[/image]



IslandInland -> RE: Yugoslavia and the Ljubljana Gap (4/11/2017 3:01:28 PM)

This is how the map is by default.

[image]local://upfiles/50613/DABB1AB9B53840AEADDBAD3874453C0C.jpg[/image]



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