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Phony Hotseat - 4/5/2016 6:02:38 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
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loki100,
Yes I do know how to simulate hotseat mode, however that doesn't turn off the absolute ignorance of Athena. I know I can go in and play each major side in pseudo hotseat mode but that doesn't mean the AI won't change things. It also doesn't allow for us to control the minor nations which are always AI controlled. I'm going to play solo PBEM as the best way of playing each major power without having the AI interfere.

it's really pathetic watching the Athena Ignorance moving single supply wagons and artillery units, including coastal batteries, into enemy territory. I know I don't need to build supply wagons against the clueless AI because it will provide me with them, as well as artillery.

It's also pathetic to see how the AI bungles corps and army organization, splitting them up and recreating garbage formations. I even see individual QC corp or army HQ units running around by themselves.

This is why I want a real Hotseat mode, not the phony one you think is equivalent. It would be nice to be able to control the allied minor nations manually, sometimes we can like with Holland but sometimes we can't like Bavaria.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 61

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/5/2016 6:11:50 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

.

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Post #: 62

RE: Phony Hotseat - 4/5/2016 8:07:14 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

loki100,
Yes I do know how to simulate hotseat mode, however that doesn't turn off the absolute ignorance of Athena. I know I can go in and play each major side in pseudo hotseat mode but that doesn't mean the AI won't change things. It also doesn't allow for us to control the minor nations which are always AI controlled. I'm going to play solo PBEM as the best way of playing each major power without having the AI interfere.

it's really pathetic watching the Athena Ignorance moving single supply wagons and artillery units, including coastal batteries, into enemy territory. I know I don't need to build supply wagons against the clueless AI because it will provide me with them, as well as artillery.

It's also pathetic to see how the AI bungles corps and army organization, splitting them up and recreating garbage formations. I even see individual QC corp or army HQ units running around by themselves.

This is why I want a real Hotseat mode, not the phony one you think is equivalent. It would be nice to be able to control the allied minor nations manually, sometimes we can like with Holland but sometimes we can't like Bavaria.

you do know that you can make any state playable? Its just the minors have no events etc and clearly would not be much fun for a player. But you can make everyone under your control if that would improve your gaming experience.

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Post #: 63

Try Giving Real Advice - 4/5/2016 8:54:05 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

loki100,
Did you know your comments that say nothing don't help make understanding any clearer, you never give any actual specific advice. Yes I know I can pick the flag of any major country to play that major country, tell me something I don't know. Didn't you read that in my reply I told you I knew how to play any major nation? How, exactly do you get to control minor nations? Yes as France I can control Holland, but not Bavaria. That's why having Holland is so much more enjoyable than having Bavaria as an ally.

My enjoyment of the game would be vastly increased if we could get rid of Ignorant Athena completely. I'd rather be able to control my minor nation allies and have them doing things like supporting their major nation ally like was done historically. Not all minor nations contributed to their causes substantially historically but it would be better if we could have that same ability in WoN. To add insult to injury we can't even completely conquer minor nations. I tried that with Nassau and found that all I could do was force it to surrender the 3 minor regions without cities, it wouldn't just completely surrender it's capital. In every Napoleonic game before once a minor nation loses it's capital it surrendered, just as happened in history.

Now I have to go post more bug reports of stuff not working properly.

< Message edited by Omnius -- 4/5/2016 8:56:04 PM >

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 64

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/5/2016 9:10:18 PM

Aurelian

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Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

.

..

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Post #: 65

RE: Try Giving Real Advice - 4/5/2016 9:40:29 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

loki100,
Did you know your comments that say nothing don't help make understanding any clearer, you never give any actual specific advice. Yes I know I can pick the flag of any major country to play that major country, tell me something I don't know. Didn't you read that in my reply I told you I knew how to play any major nation? How, exactly do you get to control minor nations? Yes as France I can control Holland, but not Bavaria. That's why having Holland is so much more enjoyable than having Bavaria as an ally.

My enjoyment of the game would be vastly increased if we could get rid of Ignorant Athena completely. I'd rather be able to control my minor nation allies and have them doing things like supporting their major nation ally like was done historically. Not all minor nations contributed to their causes substantially historically but it would be better if we could have that same ability in WoN. To add insult to injury we can't even completely conquer minor nations. I tried that with Nassau and found that all I could do was force it to surrender the 3 minor regions without cities, it wouldn't just completely surrender it's capital. In every Napoleonic game before once a minor nation loses it's capital it surrendered, just as happened in history.

Now I have to go post more bug reports of stuff not working properly.

ah sorry I assumed from all your comments that you knew how to do this sort of thing. OK its easy, go to /gamedata/factions. I've shown below the faction set up for a major (Russia) and a minor (Hannover).

What you need is in the third line as 'Kind='. Make all the minor's major and off you go. You'll still not be able to play the tribal nations but its probably the same shift if you really want to:

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 66

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/5/2016 9:41:58 PM

warspite1

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 67

Your Trick Doesn't Work - 4/6/2016 5:46:26 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
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From: Salinas, CA
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loki100,
Okay you were more specific about changing minor nations to major nations outside of the game. I was choosing major nations from inside the program.

So I did a test changing all minor nations to major nations as you suggested above. I started off as Great Britain and made a treaty offer to Portugal to join the Third Coalition which it accepted on turn 3. On turn 4 I tried moving Portugese units which I could now see as Britain to no avail. I then went in as France and found that Bavaria was allied with France but once again I could not move Bavarian units as France.

So once again you left out crucial information, namely how to actually move minor nation units after changing minor nations to major ones. Your trick doesn't do the trick since we don't see minor nation flags in the front end saved game loader. So as far as I can see your trick is useless unless you have another trick that shows how to actually move minor nation units when you're in playing a major nation allied with a minor one.

While looking at France on turn 4 I found the whole Italian Army gone from Italy. Massena was in Paris with some of the Italian theater corps with some units like lone supply wagons or QC corp HQ's moving around in Bavaria. The supply wagon had a movement path that led it towards Ulm and then back down to Toulon, a really idiotic movement path considering where it started from. As always the Artificial Ignorance wrecked the Grande Armee setup by royally screwing up the corps and Army formations. Now do you see why I hate Athena and consider it one of the most ignorant AI's of all time? Now do you see why I'd much prefer not having such ignorance screwing up my games?

Anyway a waste of time trying your trick only to find out it doesn't work. It would be awesome to emulate Holland where we can move it's land units, although not it's fleet. It would be nice to see WoN emulate other Napoleonic games where we can move allied minor nations. A real bad design decision which makes me not want to ever buy another AGEOD game. I wish I hadn't bought this turkey as it's been nothing but frustrating.

< Message edited by Omnius -- 4/6/2016 5:52:03 PM >

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 68

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/6/2016 6:03:21 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 69

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/6/2016 9:14:20 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

.

Dear Me!
Mr. Warspite, it seems some unauthorized person has been using your handle..........................................

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Post #: 70

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/6/2016 9:33:16 PM

Aurelian

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Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

.

Dear Me!
Mr. Warspite, it seems some unauthorized person has been using your handle..........................................

. :)

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Post #: 71

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/7/2016 11:35:33 AM

altipueri

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Joined: 11/14/2009
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I thought people wanted to be beta testers. It is a sort of gamers badge of honour - "I don't just play games - I help develop and improve them." Etc.

My current modus operandi is to play three Napoleonic games at once on a line of laptops on my table: WON, COTD, and NLB (needs old XP machine but has the delightful "Form Square" commands etc). I also bought at a charity shop "Who Was Who In The Napoleonic Wars" by Philip Haythornthwaite - which has about 500 short biographies.

I am looking forward to the next patch for WON.

Oh, and I occasionally slip back to playing AGEOD's earlier Napoleon's Campaigns.

And that's just the Napoleonic stuff - what with WW1 centenary bits - I'm part way through reading Churchill's "The World Crisis" - just got to the Jutland chapter.

There's so much great stuff for historians and wargamers there's no need to get bored or sulky.

Oh, and Tigers on the Hunt

< Message edited by altipueri -- 4/7/2016 11:37:58 AM >

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Post #: 72

new patch (prob 1.02) - 4/8/2016 10:31:53 PM

loki100

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for anyone who doesn't visit the AGEOD forums, new beta (but this should also be the official 1.02 patch pretty soon):

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?41773-gt-Public-beta-patch-1-02-April-8th-version-lt&p=363486&viewfull=1#post363486

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Post #: 73

Been There, Done That - 4/16/2016 12:07:17 AM

Omnius

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From: Salinas, CA
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altipueri,
Sorry but I spent many years doing actual beta test and scenario design work, now I just want to play the games to enjoy them. When I pay for a game I don't want to waste my time and get frustrated with a buggy game. I do try to help by posting bug reports though when I see a bug.

(in reply to altipueri)

Post #: 74

Thanks! - 4/16/2016 12:14:46 AM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

loki100,
Thanks for the link to the newest beta. I discovered many of my crash problems were because I didn't have the patch properly applied to the actual game folders. I had to manually copy files from folders to get the job done. Hopefully this patch will be more specific at putting the files in the right spots without having to do anything extra.

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Post #: 75

RE: Thanks! - 4/21/2016 11:13:07 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Hmm. Seems like this is still quite badly bugged?

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Post #: 76

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 5:52:12 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 77

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 8:31:19 AM

Speedysteve

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From: Reading, England
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Post #: 78

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 8:51:16 AM

Aurelian

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Joined: 2/26/2007
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Try as I might, I don't see *anything* about it being hot seat.

AI? yes

PBEM? yes

1-7 players? yes

Hard to be a "phony hot seat" as it doesn't claim to be playable hot seat.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 79

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 9:55:16 AM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
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Have you found it buggy? Is the AI any good?

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WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

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Post #: 80

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 5:51:00 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

?

warspite1

Some people insist on changing the thread title - which is really annoying as I think there is a new thread, go to read it and lo and behold its not. When this happens I put the title back.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 81

RE: Been There, Done That - 4/22/2016 7:07:51 PM

waltero

Posts: 202
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From: Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

altipueri,
Sorry but I spent many years doing actual beta test and scenario design work, now I just want to play the games to enjoy them. When I pay for a game I don't want to waste my time and get frustrated with a buggy game. I do try to help by posting bug reports though when I see a bug.

Did you not love your work? Only now, you are paying for what you love to do.
Could be worse...no game at all (refrain- purchase of new games).

Sounds like you are needed around here. Maybe they put your name in the credits.

_____________________________

"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 82

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 9:32:01 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Have you found it buggy? Is the AI any good?

I haven't lately. In the beginning, I found crashes due to memory leaks, but it always has been stable in PBEM. And the CTDs are gone,though
I save every few turns anyway.

The AI? Well, it isn't the best, and has done some strange things,(Really, Spanish horse artillery in Paris??)

It's a playable AI, but it still needs work. Especially when it sends small stacks hither and yon.

At least, you can focus your allied AI's attention on cities/regions.

And if you have to, by save and load you can do the moves for the other six majors before you run the turn.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 4/22/2016 9:36:37 PM >

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

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Post #: 83

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 10:12:31 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
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From: Reading, England
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Hmm ok. Thanks. May be one for the future when I have more time after AE. I've always wanted to play a really good Napoleonic era game...

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Post #: 84

RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done - 4/22/2016 11:46:55 PM

Zorch

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hmm ok. Thanks. May be one for the future when I have more time after AE. I've always wanted to play a really good Napoleonic era game...

Me, too.

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 85

Hotseat Mode Explained - 4/23/2016 3:01:55 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Try as I might, I don't see *anything* about it being hot seat.

AI? yes

PBEM? yes

1-7 players? yes

Hard to be a "phony hot seat" as it doesn't claim to be playable hot seat.

Aurelian,
You can "simulate" hotseat mode by choosing the flags when you go into select which country you want to play. You're not limited to the two leader pictures for selecting a country to play. So you can play Russia as Austria if you're playing Austria in the short 1805 scenario. Just save your Austrian plots, exit and then go back in selecting the Russian flag.

I'm going to do a video game series playing all 7 major countries PBEM. One advantage I saw for playing PBEM rather than "hotseat" is that in the AI moves section there's a setting that has all leaders look active at the beginning of each plot phase. Only when you go to the resolution phase will the program actually calculate which leaders are active and which are inactive. That better simulates planning as Napoleon certainly didn't know which leaders would perform as expected or underperform. Solo PBEM is so easy as all files are placed together so all we have to do is save each country's turn, exit to the menu then select another country flag or leader.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 86

Ch, Ch, Ch, Changes - 4/23/2016 3:05:39 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

?

warspite1

Some people insist on changing the thread title - which is really annoying as I think there is a new thread, go to read it and lo and behold its not. When this happens I put the title back.

warspite1,
Guilty as charged. I change message title to be more relevant to the post I'm replying to or the subject of my new message.

< Message edited by Omnius -- 4/23/2016 3:07:23 PM >

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Post #: 87

RE: Hotseat Mode Explained - 4/23/2016 4:03:45 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Try as I might, I don't see *anything* about it being hot seat.

AI? yes

PBEM? yes

1-7 players? yes

Hard to be a "phony hot seat" as it doesn't claim to be playable hot seat.

Aurelian,
You can "simulate" hotseat mode by choosing the flags when you go into select which country you want to play. You're not limited to the two leader pictures for selecting a country to play. So you can play Russia as Austria if you're playing Austria in the short 1805 scenario. Just save your Austrian plots, exit and then go back in selecting the Russian flag.

I'm going to do a video game series playing all 7 major countries PBEM. One advantage I saw for playing PBEM rather than "hotseat" is that in the AI moves section there's a setting that has all leaders look active at the beginning of each plot phase. Only when you go to the resolution phase will the program actually calculate which leaders are active and which are inactive. That better simulates planning as Napoleon certainly didn't know which leaders would perform as expected or underperform. Solo PBEM is so easy as all files are placed together so all we have to do is save each country's turn, exit to the menu then select another country flag or leader.

Well aware how it works. Does not change the fact that the game does not make any claim to be hot seat.

Thus it can't be a "phony hot seat".

BTW, been playing this since release day.

And I guess you missed this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Hardly.

By the way, you *can* play hotseat..

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4058960

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 4/24/2016 5:58:47 AM >

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Post #: 88

RE: Phony Hotseat - 5/8/2016 10:36:55 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
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87 posts. Each one read.

And now! A product I was almost ready to pull the trigger on and buy regardless of the trashing its getting on STEAM...

I think I'll wait a year before getting WoN. IIRC that's about how long until CW2 was ready for prime time. I have fun with it now though I imagine the hardcore grognards here still find fault with it too.

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Post #: 89

RE: Phony Hotseat - 5/8/2016 11:20:37 PM

kev_uk

Posts: 288
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From: South Wales, UK
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I have played it for several months, had the usual CTDs, got it fixed, and am really enjoying it. Much depth here. I can understand though from the steam reviews (just a bad bad place to sell any game like this) that it would put you off. I am hoping for more patches, but it is an old engine and a very ambitious game. I like it a lot.

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 90