I feel like a Beta Tester (Full Version)

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Kai -> I feel like a Beta Tester (12/10/2015 5:27:37 AM)

This is a great game when it isn't crashing to desktop.

This is my 4th attempt at playing the Grand Campaign.

Each time, it starts out well. Then, turn by turn, the crashes to desktop become more and more common. Eventually, I get a crash about every other turn.

When I crash, the game rolls back a turn, so I lose all of my moves and input.

Really hope that AGEOD can get a patch out soon. It's becoming really frustrating. I've got a bunch of other AGEOD games and haven't had anything near this level of bugginess with them.



basilstaghare -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester (12/10/2015 10:34:04 AM)

I haven't had as bad luck as you with CTD's, but I have noticed that if I save after moves, I do not loose my orders when it does crash....



La Provence -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/22/2015 5:34:40 PM)

Oh !

I had a very bad experience with EIA in the past.
So, is it possible to play with a complete napoleonic game ?




Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/23/2015 6:17:32 PM)

WoN, while currently unplayable, has rekindled my interest in the Napoleonic era. I've dusted off my old copy of Crown of Glory Emperor's Edition, which is still the best Napoleonic strategy/war game available. Even when (if?) WoN is fixed, it won't offer the economic and diplomatic depth of CoGEE.



gexmex -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/24/2015 2:31:37 AM)

Try the 1.02 Beta patch over on AGEOD's forum. It's worked well for me. I've experienced the repeated crashes also before I installed the patch and agree that it's very frustrating, but saying that WoN is unplayable is an exaggeration. I've quite enjoyed my time with it, despite the crashes. Your mileage may vary though, I guess.



Aurelian -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/24/2015 3:13:44 AM)

I'm eight turns into a solitaire and six turns into a seven player PBEM of this "unplayable" game.



zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/24/2015 4:30:00 AM)

tbh i think the developers should be given some slack, and here's my main and only reason why,

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3993923

Chris Roberts live demo of his latest companies release Star Citizen version alpha 2.0 is an American video game designer, programmer, film producer and film director. He created the Wing Commander series while at Origin Systems and is now working on the crowdfunded space simulator Star Citizen.

100 million dollars for development of a game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWq8ynUq7wM&feature=youtu.be

just watch it, then make your own mind up if you still think the gamer in question is one, unplayable or unfinished, in the grand scale of things, if your not sure, watch my link again,

pc company, 100 million dollars, nobody sets up his pc for a live demo, game doesn't even work, pc locks up, takes for ever to load, latest fastest pc in use btw, and how many times does it freeze? crash or stop working, and you think you are having a bad day, lol

[;)]



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/24/2015 3:03:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

tbh i think the developers should be given some slack,



I've been cutting these guys slack for years. Yes, they are a small developer, etc. And no one expects perfection.

But it is fair to ask that they at least learn from their previous mistakes. There's really no excuse for the CTDs in this game - the game system is at least five years old! Units that wander aimlessly all over the map. Events that don't fire. Every game they release seems like they've never made one before. And I'm sure we'll still have to go through the traditional AGEOD fix-one-thing-break-two-others patch process.

AGEOD's fan base is dwindling to a small group of hard-core apologists who will overlook even the most glaring faults so long as the game is pretty and depicts an era they like. (I'm guilty of that myself at times.) But we do AGEOD no favors in the long run by not holding them to a higher standard. New players aren't so forgiving - which is why AGEOD has fewer and fewer of them.



mikeCK -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/25/2015 2:41:39 AM)

I haven't had the crashes. I have seen units wander about which is a problem in every AGEOD game. That's why I find the engine better at wars without front lines. I love ACW2 but quit playing because Stonewall Jackson kept going for Pittsburg with 3 brigades.

That said...it's not very many units at all and it's been pretty stable for me. I am, however, an AGEOD apologist and defend the games when I can. Fully admit it. BUT, no one has to cut anyone any slack. Queeg paid money for a completed game that simulates napoleonic warfare. He shouldn't have to accept a game that won't run properly on some systems. This is an old engine so there really isn't any excuse for that.

Like I said though, that's assuming these problems are widespread. I've not encounters them and will continue to buy every AGEOD game they put out like a brain dead AGEOD sycophant



atheory -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/25/2015 2:56:44 AM)

There does seem to be a segment of the player base that experience CTDs from their engine. I am an avid fan of their games, but I experience the CTD in every one of their games I purchase, which is all of them over the years.

The last time I sought help from their support was with CW2 and after 3 weeks of back and forth they could not resolve my issues. I've done every trick I've seen on the forums and repeated them through windows 7 , 8, 8.1 and now 10. I assume it's corrupt file issue during turn processing, but I can't fix it.

Sometimes I can play a whole year without a CTD, sometimes I go 2 turns. I get frustrated, but I fight through it as I best I can. My patience is tested, but the lack of solid strategy games that I enjoy is limited.

I'm due for a fresh install even though Windows 10 is barely two months old on my machine and I am going the ubuntu route. I'm hoping a fresh new SSD install and a new OS might just help solve my problems with this engine.

All I can say, I am jealous of all you that don't experience the constant CTD.

cross your fingers and keep me in your prayers, hopefully my changes will work.



Emx77 -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (12/25/2015 9:43:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GrauWolf80

There does seem to be a segment of the player base that experience CTDs from their engine. I am an avid fan of their games, but I experience the CTD in every one of their games I purchase, which is all of them over the years.

The last time I sought help from their support was with CW2 and after 3 weeks of back and forth they could not resolve my issues. I've done every trick I've seen on the forums and repeated them through windows 7 , 8, 8.1 and now 10. I assume it's corrupt file issue during turn processing, but I can't fix it.

Sometimes I can play a whole year without a CTD, sometimes I go 2 turns. I get frustrated, but I fight through it as I best I can. My patience is tested, but the lack of solid strategy games that I enjoy is limited.

I'm due for a fresh install even though Windows 10 is barely two months old on my machine and I am going the ubuntu route. I'm hoping a fresh new SSD install and a new OS might just help solve my problems with this engine.

All I can say, I am jealous of all you that don't experience the constant CTD.

cross your fingers and keep me in your prayers, hopefully my changes will work.


Exactly my experience with Ageod games. However, I already have SSD and although that improved loading times considerably, it didn't help with occasional crashes.



Jacekim -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/13/2016 3:38:05 PM)

Totally agree!

The bugs are plenty[:@]



loki100 -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/13/2016 4:20:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jacekim

Totally agree!

The bugs are plenty[:@]


can I suggest report them either here or on the AGEOD forum - that way people can help you out?



zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/13/2016 4:21:51 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4006627

latest beta patch for those that wish to give it a go



Aurelian -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/13/2016 4:31:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Queeg

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

tbh i think the developers should be given some slack,



I've been cutting these guys slack for years. Yes, they are a small developer, etc. And no one expects perfection.

But it is fair to ask that they at least learn from their previous mistakes. There's really no excuse for the CTDs in this game - the game system is at least five years old! Units that wander aimlessly all over the map. Events that don't fire. Every game they release seems like they've never made one before. And I'm sure we'll still have to go through the traditional AGEOD fix-one-thing-break-two-others patch process.

AGEOD's fan base is dwindling to a small group of hard-core apologists who will overlook even the most glaring faults so long as the game is pretty and depicts an era they like. (I'm guilty of that myself at times.) But we do AGEOD no favors in the long run by not holding them to a higher standard. New players aren't so forgiving - which is why AGEOD has fewer and fewer of them.



There's also no excuse after centuries of printing books for duplicate pages, pages inserted backwards, missing paragraphs, pages printed so light that you can't read them, uncut pages, should I go on?

And yet, I still buy them.

And do you have data, verifiable data, that their fan base is dwindling?



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 1:13:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

There's also no excuse after centuries of printing books for duplicate pages, pages inserted backwards, missing paragraphs, pages printed so light that you can't read them, uncut pages, should I go on?


Seriously? I can't recall the last time I bought a book with those sorts of problems. Perhaps you should change book shops?

quote:

And yet, I still buy them.


Your choice, of course. I continue to buy AGEOD games, too, including this one, even though I know it will be weeks, if not months, before I can actually play it in a meaningful way. I buy their games to support them, in the hope that someday they'll get their act together and start treating this like a business instead of some sort of paid hobby.

But it is tiresome to see them keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Worse, instead of addressing the fundamental problems with their game engine, they seem more intent on burdening it with even more new features that it can't possibly handle.

Yes, their games look great and cover eras we all want to see, and they're little guys and they try really hard - I know the mantra - I've preached it myself many times in the past. But at some point, your "vision" has to include making games that work, not just games that sound great in theory. That's not happening with these guys. Sadly.

quote:

And do you have data, verifiable data, that their fan base is dwindling?



No more than you have data, verifiable data, that there's a growing horde of new AGEOD fans out there, happily playing away and cheerfully ignoring CTDs, multi-minute turn times, aimlessly wandering units, events that don't fire, disappearing corps and ridiculous combat results. Maybe they're out there. But I doubt it.

What I have is my eyes. I can see the decline in forum traffic, both here and over on the AGEOD board. Compare this release to TEAW. The number of folks posting about WoN - which should be their flagship game - is a fraction of that from previous games. And the ones left posting are basically the same Old Guard, who seem to buy whatever AGEOD releases.

I could be wrong, of course. But I am certain that if we truly like the folks at AGEOD and want to see their games succeed, then the worst thing we can do for them is to blindly applaud them and encourage business as usual. Their games are getting worse, not better, in terms of technical performance. And pretending otherwise won't fix anything.



Emx77 -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 1:59:55 PM)

I completely agree with Queeg. This is the first Ageod's game I didn't buy instantly. After reading about so many (non)playable factions, and having in mind previous experience, I assumed it would be plagued by different sort of bugs, obscure mechanics and poor manual which heavily borrows from previous titles. Judging by forum comments, by resisting initial urge to buy, I made right decision.



Aurelian -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 5:35:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Queeg


[
quote:

And do you have data, verifiable data, that their fan base is dwindling?



No more than you have data, verifiable data, that there's a growing horde of new AGEOD fans out there, happily playing away and cheerfully ignoring CTDs, multi-minute turn times, aimlessly wandering units, events that don't fire, disappearing corps and ridiculous combat results. Maybe they're out there. But I doubt it.




The problem with that is that I haven't made *any* claim that their fan base is either growing, static, or declining.

Having made none, there is no need for me to offer any evidence that backs it.

Never make claims that you can't prove. It puts one's entire argument under a microscope that one doesn't want.


As for changing bookshops? Really?

Can you name the bookshop that prints and assembles the books they sell? Never, ever, in decades have I seen a bookseller that makes the books it sells.

I really want another 1898 edition of Moltke's Franco-German War. Can you tell me who makes one with all the pages cut?

How about Vol 23 of the Richard Bolitho series? It has two page 108 and no page 109. What bookshop sells it?

Vol 12 of the same series is missing one paragraph of dialog while repeating another.

What bookshop sells the version that doesn't?



zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 5:43:07 PM)

has anyone in this thread with a gaming issue tried the new beta build and seen if it worked for them?

as without feedback on if yes it works or no it doesn't, how can a beta release become a full released version?

it's not those that don't have issues that need to test it, it's those that do have issues, but is open to everyone, as it's a patch not just a bug fix



Aurelian -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 5:49:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

has anyone in this thread with a gaming issue tried the new beta build and seen if it worked for them?

as without feedback on if yes it works or no it doesn't, how can a beta release become a full released version?

it's not those that don't have issues that need to test it, it's those that do have issues, but is open to everyone, as it's a patch not just a bug fix


Haven't noticed wandering units, but the Purchase War Supply decree is missing the picture, and can't be picked.

The reform Assault Column is mislabeled from what I've seen, (hasn't come up for me as an option yet)



zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 5:56:16 PM)

post in tech support as a bug in the beta build so developer see it's same as any found thanks, as i'm sure Pocus will fix all that's added or noticed / reported etc

i'm sure if we all work together we can move it forward, same as any game tbh, all have little minor issues for some, major ones for others, and most if not all get worked out in the end, just takes time for some



Ostwindflak -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 7:04:19 PM)

I have not noticed anything yet.



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 7:53:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Never make claims that you can't prove. It puts one's entire argument under a microscope that one doesn't want.



I'm comfortable with the microscope. And I'm comfortable predicting that if they don't change their ways, and start acting less like amateurs and more like a business deserving of the big boy prices they're charging, then their fan base will decline.

As I said, I could be wrong. Time will tell.



typhoon -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 8:39:38 PM)

Why would we need them to change their ways they are a proven company who make quality well supported games. An outstanding back catalogue of historical titles which they have never dumbed down and always pushed forward with extra features. Every forum here at Matrix has games that have been patched as various things are tweaked or enhanced. Barring the CTD that some have reported there is nothing which stops this game from being a whole lot of fun to play and learn. It's not easy to get every facet of such a conflict correct from the outset but given time and customer support these guys will do it. Till then play the game report the issues and continue to enjoy.



Aurelian -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 9:42:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: typhoon

Why would we need them to change their ways they are a proven company who make quality well supported games. An outstanding back catalogue of historical titles which they have never dumbed down and always pushed forward with extra features. Every forum here at Matrix has games that have been patched as various things are tweaked or enhanced. Barring the CTD that some have reported there is nothing which stops this game from being a whole lot of fun to play and learn. It's not easy to get every facet of such a conflict correct from the outset but given time and customer support these guys will do it. Till then play the game report the issues and continue to enjoy.


That was my point. Centuries of book printing, and you still get bad ones. Going to some other "book shop" isn't going to change that.

You get the same thing with computer programs. But unlike books, they get patched. (No patch for my 118 year old Moltke book....)

And one could always play Crown of Glory or <shudder> March of the Eagles.

Don't have to be an "apologist" for AGEOD to understand that programming a game of this scope isn't programming Pong for your Atari 2600.

Just look at Paradox games. It's been said that you have to get to 1.05 before they're playable. And no one is talking about their "shrinking" fan base.



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 9:43:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: typhoon
Till then play the game report the issues and continue to enjoy.


The game isn't enjoyable, for me at least, in its present state. I don't have the time or patience to invest 20-30 turns into a campaign just to get to a critical event that doesn't fire at all or worse deletes half my army. Maybe some find that enjoyable, but I don't. Call me picky.



tevans6220 -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 9:56:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

has anyone in this thread with a gaming issue tried the new beta build and seen if it worked for them?

as without feedback on if yes it works or no it doesn't, how can a beta release become a full released version?

it's not those that don't have issues that need to test it, it's those that do have issues, but is open to everyone, as it's a patch not just a bug fix

There lies the problem that I tried pointing out a couple of weeks ago. We have to test it. Why? We paid for it. We shouldn't have to test anything. That really needs to be done before release. The way it seems to work with Ageod is they release a game, let customers find the problems and then release numerous beta patches for customers to test. Some may see that as customer service but I see it as a problem in their quality assurance and testing process. Imagine buying a new car and being told that you have to help test for problems with new systems. This has been going on with Ageod with practically every release and it's getting tiresome. I love their games and I think both of the Phils are really great guys but it's getting to the point where I'm going to stop buying their games. I don't have the time or money to buy a game and then wait for them to finish it. This is like buying a book with the author telling you that the last chapters are still being worked on.

I don't think anybody is complaining about minor bugs here. But events that don't work or don't work right is a major problem that should have been fixed before release. So should any crashing problems. You can understand cutting the developers some slack if this was their first release but it isn't. It's been this way with practically every Ageod release and it's getting old.



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 10:01:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Just look at Paradox games. It's been said that you have to get to 1.05 before they're playable. And no one is talking about their "shrinking" fan base.



Sorry but there's no comparison between Paradox support and what AGEOD offers. Not even close.

Paradox games work on release. The early patches are 90% squashing small bugs and tweaking rules. (After that, they typically wander off in pursuit of DLCs that lose the orignal focus of the game - but that's a different story.)

Sorry, but AGEOD is a different story. The AI literally couldn't play TEAW when that game was released. I played multiple games where I didn't even move a single unit, just hit the next turn button repeatedly, sat back and let the AI try to win - and the AI did nothing. It literally couldn't march through empty countryside to seize an undefended Paris. And I offered to provide saves for the devs to evaluate - no interest. Within days of release, the betas were just telling everyone to play PBEM. And now, a year and half later, not much has changed - the AI still can't play the game to the level it does in CW2.

Instead for learning from that experience, and working to improve their core game engine, they've come out with another game that is far too complex for the AI to handle. Just read the posts on the AGEOD board. The AI plays WoN better than it does TEAW, but that's mostly because the game engine better fits the era. But the AI still has no idea how to assemble armies or keep track of its units or how to conduct diplomacy.

I'd love to see AGEOD have the same success as Paradox. I'd be a first-day buyer of everything they put out (which I basically am anyway). But they're not headed in that direction.



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 10:24:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

has anyone in this thread with a gaming issue tried the new beta build and seen if it worked for them?

as without feedback on if yes it works or no it doesn't, how can a beta release become a full released version?

it's not those that don't have issues that need to test it, it's those that do have issues, but is open to everyone, as it's a patch not just a bug fix

There lies the problem that I tried pointing out a couple of weeks ago. We have to test it. Why? We paid for it. We shouldn't have to test anything. That really needs to be done before release. The way it seems to work with Ageod is they release a game, let customers find the problems and then release numerous beta patches for customers to test. Some may see that as customer service but I see it as a problem in their quality assurance and testing process. Imagine buying a new car and being told that you have to help test for problems with new systems. This has been going on with Ageod with practically every release and it's getting tiresome. I love their games and I think both of the Phils are really great guys but it's getting to the point where I'm going to stop buying their games. I don't have the time or money to buy a game and then wait for them to finish it. This is like buying a book with the author telling you that the last chapters are still being worked on.

I don't think anybody is complaining about minor bugs here. But events that don't work or don't work right is a major problem that should have been fixed before release. So should any crashing problems. You can understand cutting the developers some slack if this was their first release but it isn't. It's been this way with practically every Ageod release and it's getting old.


There's always been this weird vibe with AGEOD about how they're little guys and they try really hard and they release gazillions of beta patches, and so we all just should be thankful and sing their praises lest they go away. As if treating them like a normal company is somehow unfair or even disloyal.

But half the games here are developed by small teams. Look at Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa. Another tiny team that developed a core game engine and improved it steadily to produce a really brilliant product. DC:B is every bit as innovative and historically evocative as anything AGEOD has produced since BoA - and it also works!

Every game in the AGEOD lineup exists in a permanent state of beta patches. People applaud them for how great they support their games, but I just see it as an inability to ever finish anything. If their engine worked as it should, they wouldn't need endless patches. I kinda feel sorry for them - it must feel like they're trying to dig a hole in the sea.

Someday, hopefully soon, they need to take a step back and critically evaluate their game engine and probably get some outside help to overhaul it (ala what happened with World War One Centennial Edition). Folks on the AGEOD board have pointed out several areas of inefficiency and poor coding in the core engine and databases. Until they fix the engine, just adding more layers of new features that the engine can't handle will just make matters worse. They'll never escape the beta patch hell.

And it certainly won't help to just keep telling them what great guys they are.



typhoon -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/14/2016 10:51:57 PM)

Not to be a Paradox basher but seem to remember a Europa Universalis game I purchased I forget which number I never did get to play had need of a pixel shader or some such thing and integrated Intel graphics just never had it no mention on the game specs that was an awful unhappy lot of people on their forums on that one. The map looked like grey mist nothing else appeared and if I remember rightly they never did fix the issue. But that is very off topic so apologies for that. Meanwhile Ageod continue to put out great games and improve on them as they evolve I see nothing wrong with this approach.



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