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RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO

 
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RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:54:43 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Not much has gone right with this dismal performance. We need some self-examination and specific work on correcting problems.

Identified Issues:
1. There are a lot of questions I have regarding the fight and, particularly, the horrific raid coordination. I wonder if having so many CVs in each TF was the real culprit? I've never worked on this scale before. My creation of the CV TF was predicated on roughly 400 planes as Kido Butai was at the start of the war. Perhaps that is a total error.

Opinions on this? What do JFB's have to say from their experiences?

2. Air Search seems to be taken care of but it certainly wasn't. Someone mentioned having night searching going on as well. I've never done that--excepting bombardments--is this something useful as well?

3. We've already settled the CVE reaction issue. THANKS!

I can do nothing for how Dan likes to throw of TFs to soak up and pulverize strikes at non-important shipping. The key here is the learn from the fight so that myself and others can benefit.

Even though we're still trying to get away let us look to a post-battle briefing and discussion.

I have turns saved for the three previous days so we can look at just about anything.


I love this post, and literally have tons to say and to learn about it. But, man oh man, why bother if your going to drop the game.

You have almost made 44 with an intact KB...delivered huge setbacks to the Allies...stay with the game and you will become a better player. I speak from experience, I think.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2191
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 5:15:23 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Fully understand Gents. Am simply moping around.

I cannot extricate my ships due to his STF continuously intercepting my CTF. Ordered FULL SPEED withdrawal and got nowhere.

Now have FOUR days of saved turns.

Let me back in my depression for a moment. NOTHING has gone right in the last four days. Examination needs to occur but crushed hope/expectations rather takes that away presently.



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 5/18/2016 5:17:42 AM >

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2192
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 5:39:33 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Yep, Viberpol and I are into our second campaign and not too far behind you and Dan. Whenever one of us takes a blow, we just take a few days off from the game and go do something fun. It has worked well for both of us. Bet you owe your wife a dinner. Just don't tell her about the game during dinner...

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2193
RE: Battle of Wake: Day ONE - 5/18/2016 5:46:40 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Lose Kaga, Zuikaku, Hiyo, Chiyoda, Chitose, and Mizuho.


What about non-flight-deck ships?

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2194
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 7:25:38 AM   
njp72

 

Posts: 1372
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		I often find myself in strong agreement with Lowpe on all of his comments and assessments when it comes to the Empire.

Despite the apparent one sided thrashing, I think you will be amazed at how resilient your forces are and how rapidly they will bounce back. Give it a week or two and you feel much better, besides you do appear to have downed quite a few of his aircraft.

With regards to identified issues and tactical lessons from this clash the critical one (in my humble opinion) I believe is never operate any carrier forces outside LBA search and CAP once you reach 43. The risk is never worth the reward and unfortunately Allied strike packages escorted by Hellcats always get through and Japanese CVs always burn.

Again in my opinion, once you hit 43 your carrier assets become of strategic value and need to be well protected, positioned out of observation and readied for immediate local counter attacks on critical sectors (forget tactical victories or assaulting the odd convoy). Of course even being unsighted will give an Allied player pause before any operation.

You played a very good game and your success in Sumatra was very significant, especially in VPs harvested.

Well played and keep up the good work.







quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Not much has gone right with this dismal performance. We need some self-examination and specific work on correcting problems.

Identified Issues:
1. There are a lot of questions I have regarding the fight and, particularly, the horrific raid coordination. I wonder if having so many CVs in each TF was the real culprit? I've never worked on this scale before. My creation of the CV TF was predicated on roughly 400 planes as Kido Butai was at the start of the war. Perhaps that is a total error.

Opinions on this? What do JFB's have to say from their experiences?

2. Air Search seems to be taken care of but it certainly wasn't. Someone mentioned having night searching going on as well. I've never done that--excepting bombardments--is this something useful as well?

3. We've already settled the CVE reaction issue. THANKS!

I can do nothing for how Dan likes to throw of TFs to soak up and pulverize strikes at non-important shipping. The key here is the learn from the fight so that myself and others can benefit.

Even though we're still trying to get away let us look to a post-battle briefing and discussion.

I have turns saved for the three previous days so we can look at just about anything.


I love this post, and literally have tons to say and to learn about it. But, man oh man, why bother if your going to drop the game.

You have almost made 44 with an intact KB...delivered huge setbacks to the Allies...stay with the game and you will become a better player. I speak from experience, I think.



(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2195
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 8:25:53 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Keep your head up. As someone who lost half the KB on turn 2 I can say there is still joy in the game after this kind of a defeat. That game is ongoing and the Japanese are still plugging away almost into 44. It would be fun for you to see your mod go to the end, and to be truly objective, you would lose the KB at some point in the game regardless. We all do!

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Not much has gone right with this dismal performance. We need some self-examination and specific work on correcting problems.

Identified Issues:
1. There are a lot of questions I have regarding the fight and, particularly, the horrific raid coordination. I wonder if having so many CVs in each TF was the real culprit? I've never worked on this scale before. My creation of the CV TF was predicated on roughly 400 planes as Kido Butai was at the start of the war. Perhaps that is a total error.

Opinions on this? What do JFB's have to say from their experiences?

I do try to stay in the 200 planes per CVTF area. I've always had good CV strikes with this kind of a composition. I also try not to mix slower and faster speeds in TFs.

quote:


2. Air Search seems to be taken care of but it certainly wasn't. Someone mentioned having night searching going on as well. I've never done that--excepting bombardments--is this something useful as well?


I'm a huge proponent of night search. About half of my Jakes/Norms are on night search in any TF. This helps a bit against subs but also gets that first sighting of the enemy surface ships which carries the MDL over into the day phase. So they "know where to look."

I also sacrifice a portion of every strike group to search if there is no LBA to add in. I usually also don't convert the CS cruisers and keep at least one of those filled with FP for additional search.In standard games I don't like to be without them for almost a year in conversion in 43. It's less strike planes, but better targeting.

quote:


3. We've already settled the CVE reaction issue. THANKS!

I can do nothing for how Dan likes to throw of TFs to soak up and pulverize strikes at non-important shipping. The key here is the learn from the fight so that myself and others can benefit.

Even though we're still trying to get away let us look to a post-battle briefing and discussion.

I have turns saved for the three previous days so we can look at just about anything.



It's good to set up a test and see how these things play out in your own sandbox.

You also should think about CAP% and strike altitudes. Players have very different settings here, and it's best to test for yourself and really see what works in an objective situation. Over and over.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2196
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 12:40:09 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Chin up mate. It's late '43 and you just now got your CVs whacked. Hell, that's better than Yamamoto did! All JFBs know this day would come and I know it hurts like the dickens. But all that has really happened is that you now have shifted from being on the offense to being on the defense. Playing Japan in the late war is both fun and challenging. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing an AFB bash himself against the rocks of a stoutly prepared defense. If you can keep your economy healthy and hold CR away from the Home Islands until Aug '45, I see no reason why you can't claim victory.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2197
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 12:51:27 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		John,

First, I unsubscribed from your opponent's AAR, so I am a little freer with my comments, especially looking forward.

The one critical decision Japanese players must make in this game is when to go into defensive mode (with timely counterstrikes as opportunities present themselves). In this game, it seems the decision has been made for you. As others have said, it happens to all Japanese players, sooner or later. You have done well so far, and I am certain that you will continue to do well. Your land air assets are there, your surface combat forces are there, your air research has given you a certain edge, so just make the switch. Doggedly fight for each atoll, island, airfield and port. Make the Allies pay dearly for every hex they conquer.

KB may be a nice toy with a lot of bling, but it is only one toy. You have many others to play with.

Tenno heika banzai!

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 2198
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 1:12:03 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Been told I may have breached Opsec with my post so I have deleted the content.

Was never my intention.

My sincere apologies.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 5/18/2016 1:31:59 PM >

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 2199
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 1:52:28 PM   
kjnoel

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 3/10/2011
Status: offline 		Now that you don't need to obsess about when and how to best employ KB the game enters a different, but still exciting phase for the Japanese.

Your goal is now to bleed him on each landing, the goal of decisive battle turns into death by a thousand cuts. Crazy to throw in the towel and, in all honestly, a bad rep for Japanese players. Still plenty of fun to be had!

KB always loses to the Allies, the only change in any game is the date. Lost mine in Autumn '43 and changed my focus to trashing my opponents cruisers. Got a few here and a few there and now, in '44 he is still limited to escorting his CVs OR creating SCTFs, not both. Means my island airbases are not so vulnerable as usual because he can't bombard everything. Plus running around with my remaining 4 CVs is fun, never going to change anything just add to those paper cuts!

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2200
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 2:44:38 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks Guys. Quite considerate things to say.

Don't worry Hans whatever you Posted I did not see.

The show shall go on just need some time to process and adjust. Cannot really do that until I have broken contact with the enemy so we'll see.

Got several PMs from other players who spoke of how highly they regard these AARs and the value within them for both sides. Sometimes I truly forget the great value of these for beginning and advanced players. Appreciate the time taken by all those who have taken the time to write here or through a PM. It greatly helps with morale.

I had a horrible night of sleep and am now headed in for a 10 hour shift at the store. No turns until this evening.


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to kjnoel)
Post #: 2201
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 2:48:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: njp72

I often find myself in strong agreement with Lowpe on all of his comments and assessments when it comes to the Empire.

Despite the apparent one sided thrashing, I think you will be amazed at how resilient your forces are and how rapidly they will bounce back. Give it a week or two and you feel much better, besides you do appear to have downed quite a few of his aircraft.

With regards to identified issues and tactical lessons from this clash the critical one (in my humble opinion) I believe is never operate any carrier forces outside LBA search and CAP once you reach 43. The risk is never worth the reward and unfortunately Allied strike packages escorted by Hellcats always get through and Japanese CVs always burn.

Again in my opinion, once you hit 43 your carrier assets become of strategic value and need to be well protected, positioned out of observation and readied for immediate local counter attacks on critical sectors (forget tactical victories or assaulting the odd convoy). Of course even being unsighted will give an Allied player pause before any operation.

You played a very good game and your success in Sumatra was very significant, especially in VPs harvested.

Well played and keep up the good work.







quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Not much has gone right with this dismal performance. We need some self-examination and specific work on correcting problems.

Identified Issues:
1. There are a lot of questions I have regarding the fight and, particularly, the horrific raid coordination. I wonder if having so many CVs in each TF was the real culprit? I've never worked on this scale before. My creation of the CV TF was predicated on roughly 400 planes as Kido Butai was at the start of the war. Perhaps that is a total error.

Opinions on this? What do JFB's have to say from their experiences?

2. Air Search seems to be taken care of but it certainly wasn't. Someone mentioned having night searching going on as well. I've never done that--excepting bombardments--is this something useful as well?

3. We've already settled the CVE reaction issue. THANKS!

I can do nothing for how Dan likes to throw of TFs to soak up and pulverize strikes at non-important shipping. The key here is the learn from the fight so that myself and others can benefit.

Even though we're still trying to get away let us look to a post-battle briefing and discussion.

I have turns saved for the three previous days so we can look at just about anything.


I love this post, and literally have tons to say and to learn about it. But, man oh man, why bother if your going to drop the game.

You have almost made 44 with an intact KB...delivered huge setbacks to the Allies...stay with the game and you will become a better player. I speak from experience, I think.





Why thank you NJP, since I have ruthlessly stolen your ideas and made them mine -- this comes as no surprise!


(in reply to njp72)
Post #: 2202
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 2:53:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.


_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2203
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:02:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.



Having had this happen to me, the worst thing is squadrons destroyed and all the splinters everywhere. Then, here is the potential buyback of destroyed squadrons which is very expensive.

In 1st qtr 44 the IJAAF really gets a huge size increase in fighters -- which helps a lot. But you need to build a ton of Frank A's -- can't stress that enough.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2204
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:07:56 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Frank-r is nice too if you have invested in the R&D. It's a bit more maneuverable, has a greater rate of climb, and has a higher ceiling. As with the A model, with two CL canons, both are very good at whacking 4Es.

< Message edited by pws1225 -- 5/18/2016 3:29:27 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2205
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:23:38 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		Sorry John, I'm just the messenger. The Emperor would like to see you in his office.

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 2206
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:28:59 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.




Ok, now that's it's completely out in the open, this is what I had posted before:

"Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon."


I didn't feel that it violated OpSec as Obvert had already broached the subject, but I deleted the content anyway when some one pointed out that it might be a violation.

I've never been big on concealing insights into game mechanics as some sort of closely held secret.

I strongly believe that both sides should be as aware of game mechanics and possibilities as possible.

As a community of players we may have stumbled onto something none, or at least few, of us had ever considered before.

Exploiting night search may be a bit unrealistic, but it is, after all, a game and when playing competitively players can and will do unrealistic things that the game mechanics allow.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2207
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:48:23 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.




Ok, now that's it's completely out in the open, this is what I had posted before:

"Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon."


I didn't feel that it violated OpSec as Obvert had already broached the subject, but I deleted the content anyway when some one pointed out that it might be a violation.

I've never been big on concealing insights into game mechanics as some sort of closely held secret.

I strongly believe that both sides should be as aware of game mechanics and possibilities as possible.

As a community of players we may have stumbled onto something none, or at least few, of us had ever considered before.

Exploiting night search may be a bit unrealistic, but it is, after all, a game and when playing competitively players can and will do unrealistic things that the game mechanics allow.


Game mechanics should be shared.


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2208
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 3:51:15 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		John lost in the first phase of any battle - Intel or lack of it. Learning about how night search can aid the DL in the daytime is just getting a better understanding of how the game engine works Hans. No OpSec violation in my book.

_____________________________


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2209
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 4:49:03 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.




Ok, now that's it's completely out in the open, this is what I had posted before:

"Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon."


I didn't feel that it violated OpSec as Obvert had already broached the subject, but I deleted the content anyway when some one pointed out that it might be a violation.

I've never been big on concealing insights into game mechanics as some sort of closely held secret.

I strongly believe that both sides should be as aware of game mechanics and possibilities as possible.

As a community of players we may have stumbled onto something none, or at least few, of us had ever considered before.

Exploiting night search may be a bit unrealistic, but it is, after all, a game and when playing competitively players can and will do unrealistic things that the game mechanics allow.


Game mechanics should be shared.




No, this is fine in my book. I read both AARs and post freely about both Allied and Japanese game mechanics. My feeling is that any player can benefit from correct mechanics. I just try to be general about it and avoid tactical and strategic talk if I am reading both. That said, I know I might have goofed up a few times over the years. It is hard to keep my mouth shut. But that is the price that comes with writing excellent AARs...I also welcome anyone calling me out if they think I am blabbing too much.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2210
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 6:24:41 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry for my harsh words yesterday.

You haven't lost until there are nukes raining on Hiroshima or the US Marines are marching through Tokyo.

Until then - BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_____________________________


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 2211
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/18/2016 6:37:20 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Sorry for my harsh words yesterday.

You haven't lost until there are nukes raining on Hiroshima or the US Marines are marching through Tokyo.

Until then - BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think you could possibly lose Tokyo and still not lose the game. Same with nukes.

Course it would take a lot of doing!



(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 2212
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/19/2016 5:46:06 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		What I wouldn't give for a tactical nuke right now in our game!

Had a rough night last night. Woke up at 1:30am and thought I was having a heart attack. Had this massive pressure on my chest. I started to panic and then I burped and the pain went down some. STUPID. Had heartburn and it made things very hard to sleep through. Felt like an idiot for panicking but it sure scared the tar out of me! Had the PLEASURE of getting up and working 7am-7pm before coming home tonight.

Wanted to run the turn but felt I needed to keep my games going with Michael and Herbie. They each got their turn. That Herbie is a NUT! He is doing crazy stuff and I am utterly enjoying it. Anyway...

Wrote Dan a note and promised to get the next turn to him in the morning. That is the plan.

AcePylut: Don't worry about anything. I didn't take anything personal from the commentary here. Everyone was simply voicing their thoughts and opinions. Perfectly fine.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 5/19/2016 5:47:56 AM >

_____________________________



Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2213
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/19/2016 7:55:46 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline 		I know I'm a little late to the show here but I think its battles like these that make this game so good. The unpredictability but still within the realm of realism is what makes this game unique. Had this been a real life battle, you'd probably hear some explanation how the Japanese were unable to locate the Allied fleet as quickly as the reverse because of Allied planes equipped with radar. Or maybe its that a series of miscommunication delayed the reaction of one fleet but not the other. Of course the game doesn't say what happened but we do now in real life things like this happened and led to this type of result.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2214
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/19/2016 8:19:41 AM   
njp72

 

Posts: 1372
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		I completely agree Sangeli

In some ways what we have all witnessed here between two great players was a mini Midway.

A large undetected US CV fleet appearing on the flank of a surprised Japanese task force in deep uncharted waters and far from home.

A thousand reasons could have attributed to this fog of war event occurring and all based on historical events, could easily have happened (human error on the search sectors, mechanical error on certain aircraft which may not have flown, or the appearance of an opportune weather front)

great game indeed!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

I know I'm a little late to the show here but I think its battles like these that make this game so good. The unpredictability but still within the realm of realism is what makes this game unique. Had this been a real life battle, you'd probably hear some explanation how the Japanese were unable to locate the Allied fleet as quickly as the reverse because of Allied planes equipped with radar. Or maybe its that a series of miscommunication delayed the reaction of one fleet but not the other. Of course the game doesn't say what happened but we do now in real life things like this happened and led to this type of result.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 2215
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/19/2016 1:37:59 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		One goal of the game is to see how you would handle situations that the historic characters faced. you are now facing the phase where you war goes from the offensive minded to the defensive minded and how best to make every inch costly. You are given a chance to change history on how you conduct the defensive phase of the war in the Pacific. many players cheat themselves of this by quitting after losing the KB.

(in reply to njp72)
Post #: 2216
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/19/2016 2:54:28 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		IF only the float plane on the CA-Tone had flown 30 minutes earlier - WW2 may have had a very different outcome.

I've always found it fascinating, that in war throughout history, there are thousands to millions of people involved, and the outcome of the war can often be determined by one simple "twist of fate" or "decision" that had it gone the other way, an entirely different outcome may have occurred.

For example - what if Chamberlain hadn't given an order to "fix bayonets" on July 3rd, 1863.... the South could have rolled up the entire Union flank and Gettysburg would have been another feather int he cap for Lee.

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(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 2217
RE: Battle of Wake: Day TWO - 5/19/2016 3:11:10 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I think you should plan your defence, builds, r&d, shipping, based on the supposition that the Allies will most likely be in position to bomb the HI in 1st Qtr 44. Considering the B29 shows up for action in 3/44 this is solid thinking for every JFB, but especially for a JFB without a full KB.

If the Allies go for the throat, you can win the air war (at least until 1945) by planning now. If they do a broad advance you can do even better I think.

500 Franks a month is not too much and might be too low; look at the Navy fighters you have and see what you can have by 3/44. Which model Jack or George? Get the engines cranking out! 3x as much Army fighter production than Navy.

Double check your fighter production at Harbin....it will keep cranking out the planes deep into 45 most likely.

Attack the Allied plane pools at every chance, with every tactic.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/19/2016 3:15:35 PM >

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 2218
Scratch SOMETHING! - 5/19/2016 4:06:01 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		September 22, 1943

Three Japanese DDs are ordered to fall back and run interference as the Fleet attempts to limp away. They do their work in magnificent fashion. The trio tangle with four separate Allied TFs and manage to sink DD Cony in exchange for the Kisaragi to Dive Bombers. The work they do is well done.

No American ships mingle with damaged/fleeing ships.

At dawn the remaining undamaged carrier spot 5 AOs and feed off of them. They then turn and are full of fight. From the decks of 4 CV and 3 CVLs fighters, DB, and Torpedo planes lift off and attack. They are low in numbers but accomplish a lot. By the end of the day, they hit several American cruisers, BB Idaho and SINK the USS Nevada.

It ain't much but it is something. We'll hunt the Idaho with SS. She took a torp and multiple bombs.

Looks like we just MIGHT have broken contact. If he sends STF again next turn then they will meet a hot reception from the Japanese CVs and Marcus.

The screenshot doesn't show Nevada but it give a visual and where the fight is.





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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 5/19/2016 4:08:21 PM >

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2219
Scratch SOMETHING! - 5/19/2016 4:07:48 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Several Japanese cripples were sunk by air strikes so this shows that:





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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 2220
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