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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 6/27/2016 7:18:36 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		That doesn't matter at all. An Italian ATR transporting a German PARA can only be intercepted by a Spanish FTR if the Italians didn't DoW Spain themselves. The actual land attack by the German PARA still means that the Spanish defenders are surprised...

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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/8/2016 8:18:27 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Barcelona attack will be 2,9:1 after CW def shore bombardment. It gives about 50% chance to take it. I would say I try for it. Any thoughts AllenK? No other attacks is Spain.

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Post #: 302
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/8/2016 8:26:56 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		Can the Italian Navy in the West Med assist or would the -1 be counter-productive?

It looks a pretty good odds to get 3:1. Have you got low-cost loss takers available?

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Post #: 303
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/8/2016 8:29:24 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		If Italians join the combat, don't I get -1 to roll? I also use HQ support and I have MIL/MOT div to take losses. I would say I try for it.

Edit: Yes, I would get -1 to roll.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 7/8/2016 8:44:43 PM >

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Post #: 304
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/8/2016 8:55:39 PM   
AllenK


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Status: offline 		Agree. Go for it.

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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/11/2016 6:23:22 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Here is plan for German troops in Spain for this impulse:

Germany takes land action

Rail moves: INF div from Vichy to Saragossa, INF from Vichy to Bordeaux and ARM from Danzig to Saragossa.

Situation after rail moves.




Attachment (1)

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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/11/2016 6:26:00 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		Then I will do some land moves so that we can rail units to Madrid and Valencia next impulse.

Germany plans to attack Spanish flipped stack 3:2 +2 with 27,3% fractional odds and 20% HQ support.

AllenK, you are free to start impulse. Sending Italian units using transporters to Cartagena as you planned sounds good. And next impulse you can rail more units. Actually, if you sail from port to port and Germany moves first, Italy can move their units in Spain as they are in supply. But is it worth it? Can they make any good attacks? CW has some planes to use for ground support.

I try to take ports in NW Spain as soon as possible so that CW can't cause any more harm. This is already looking like a real nightmare.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 7/11/2016 6:33:50 PM >

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Post #: 307
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/12/2016 1:00:34 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		Remember your prime objective: Gibraltar.

Sailing units into Cartagena would be good!

Look at it this way: Killing CW units in Spain is like doing economic damage to them...and the expensive stuff wont be around later as you take the rest of the Med. Use overwhelming force in each attack.

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Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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Post #: 308
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/12/2016 3:08:05 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		Gibraltar is my primary objective. But I would like fight only one front at time. I know evil CW forces would land behind lines as soon as they get a chance

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 7/12/2016 3:11:38 PM >

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Post #: 309
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/12/2016 6:05:07 PM   
Barbuesque

 

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Status: offline 		I would tend to go along with JT's take on this. You should have sufficient troops to contain the CW in the NW and keep pushing for Gibraltar.

Eventually you can turn the Bay of Biscay and NW spain into a deathtrap for the CW. You'll need sufficient fighters and Navs to swarm the 2 box for that. It's far better attrition than to slug it out in the mountains unless you can somehow get really good odds by flipping stuff and only then if it's spanish units that will always be in supply anyway.

Meanwhile I'd keep to pushing to Gibraltar and cut supply through cape st-Vincent when possible. Then take care of the Bilbao pocket and rip out some hair out of the RN at the same time.



< Message edited by Barbuesque -- 7/12/2016 6:08:05 PM >

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Post #: 310
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/12/2016 6:30:29 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		I agree. Bilbao isn't important, Gibraltar is...

The CW only have so much units to their disposal. Especially if you also put pressure on Egypt with the Italians, they haven't got enough to break out of Bilbao. Screen the area and bypass them.

But: don't forget to have a fast INF taking the northwestern ports of Spain, to prevent the CW from entering those ports too.

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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/12/2016 8:25:49 PM   
Barbuesque

 

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Status: offline 		That said, since that stack is entirely made of spanish units who will be in supply anyway, and it's already fully flipped (I think) - you might not get better odds and you probably need that hex eventually. So I think that attack is a good idea, especially since the turn might not last much longer.

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Post #: 312
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/12/2016 8:33:33 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		I will make that attack and then leave CW units to wait until Gibraltar is taken. I hope I kill those Spanish units and CW MIL is forced to move to coast.

Unless we get lucky at some point and can put them OOS by sending RN home from Bay of Biscay. Then we will ground strike and attack.

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Post #: 313
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 12:38:40 PM   
Barbuesque

 

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Status: offline 		It might be a good idea to build out your navs and fighters that can get into the 2 box. The siege of Southern Spain and Gibraltar could drag on. It's also an excellent way to inflict casualties on the RN.

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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 12:42:38 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Next turn Germany gets 4 range fighter. And first FW Condor is coming later this year.

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Post #: 315
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 2:28:10 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Still: I think you need all the NAV. Those are the key of getting the CW out of Spain and out of the Med. The Italians have some nice NAV too (long range and not too expensive). I don't like to use only the Condors. Always put a weaker bomber (the He flying boat, f.e.) in front of them...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 7/13/2016 2:31:10 PM >

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RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 8:42:11 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		What do you think to that search result?

4-box only for a free hit on the CA or go for the 2-box and risk a hit on the Trans. Don't think choosing box 1 only gives us enough surprise to avoid combat. If my calculations are correct, Allied surprise would be 3+1 = 4, Axis surprise would be 5+2 =7. Difference is 3.

4-box would give an A on the CA.

2-box is anyone's guess but the A2A starts at +2. I wouldn't use the 2 surprise points (I think) at this stage, or on AA but adjusting the damage depending on how the air combat went.

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Post #: 317
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 8:46:30 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		You can't cause any damage to CV's, you can try to shoot their planes down if you can risk transporters. Can you take the risk? You have chance to cause losses to CW.

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Post #: 318
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 8:49:20 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		Choose only box 2 and use surprise points for air combat. Next round roll even better and then sink CV

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Post #: 319
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 8:49:49 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		Okay, best result (other than downed CVP's) would be a D on a CV and that's assuming AA only does 1 point of damage (assuming my surprise calculations are correct). If we can't avoid combat, I'll choose box 4 only and try to abort the CA. If it succeeds, it reduces the chances of a successful Allied search next round.

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Post #: 320
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 8:50:49 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		At +2, with only 3 points to spend, it would be a waste on air combat.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 7/13/2016 8:59:03 PM >

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Post #: 321
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 8:54:18 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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From: Finland
Status: offline 		All you can cause to ships is A's this round. Avoid combat is option too

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Post #: 322
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 9:02:47 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		If Nav is cleared through and only suffers 1 point of AA, it would be on an A, which 2 surprise points (of the 3 available) could boost to a D. That assumes none of the CW CVP bombers are cleared through. If any were, the surprsie points would be used to minimise damage to the Trans.

I think it's a choice between the A on the CA and hope for a better search result (or curse a worse one) or avoid combat for this impulse but face another attempt on the next Allied impulse if the turn doesn't end.

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Post #: 323
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 9:13:46 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		You can decide. I would shoot down everything than can take off from a ship

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Post #: 324
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 9:33:28 PM   
AllenK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

You can decide. I would shoot down everything than can take off from a ship


Yes but it would seem memories are short. That last episode over Spain where the Luftwaffe didn't exactly cover itself in glory as an example of how easily things go pear-shaped with the die rolls.

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)
Post #: 325
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 9:36:15 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

You can decide. I would shoot down everything than can take off from a ship


Yes but it would seem memories are short. That last episode over Spain where the Luftwaffe didn't exactly cover itself in glory as an example of how easily things go pear-shaped with the die rolls.


True. But I bet Italians have better pilots. Can't be worse than German...

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Post #: 326
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/13/2016 9:37:51 PM   
AllenK


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From: England
Status: offline 		Guess we won't find out this round. Maybe next round if the searches work out okay .

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Post #: 327
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/14/2016 5:05:05 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		I would have used 4 surprise points and avoided combat. It turned out ok getting one of your TRS back to Italy, but those TRS are critical to the Axis effort in the Med. Do not risk them unnecessarily!

Barb and Centuur are correct concerning building out your NAV's...and I would add FTR3's if you have any. Germany should make sure Italy can do the same.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to AllenK)
Post #: 328
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/14/2016 7:15:44 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Since there were only three surprise points available, targeting the 4 box was a good choice. It was the correct way of reducing Axis losses and improving the search die rolls for the next round of combat.

There wasn't a lot to gain by targeting the CW CV's at all. You would have put the most valuable Italian assets (the TRS) at risk...



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Peter

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Post #: 329
RE: 4 player E-mail: Axis Only AAR - 7/14/2016 8:49:33 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I suggest following:

Germany combined.

Germany sends Bf109 to Bay of Biscay box 1 and initiates combat.

Germany sends AMPH and TRS to Baltic Sea box 3 loaded with GAR and MIL (for next turn when USSR most likely demands borderlands).

If Italy takes combined they can fight in West Med. If they take land we can make togerher 24:7 -1 vs 2-5 CAV (assuming CW uses ATR and CVP for ground support). I don't think that is worth trying. 24 or 23:6 = 4:1 with HQ support would be good enough. Maybe we can make that attack (without Italian div because Italy has only 2 land moves) if Italy takes combined and can shoot down CVP with 1 point tactical in West Med?



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Post #: 330
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