Is there a future in wargaming with games like Pokemon Go?

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Is there a future in wargaming with games like Pokemon Go? - 7/14/2016 1:53:47 AM

jwarrenw13

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I have some friends playing it. I have no interest. But I just wonder what the future of such games is and if we will see wargames vaguely similar to Pokemon Go. It would seem pretty easy to make a transition to a simple first person shooter.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/14/2016 2:36:28 AM

bairdlander2

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what is pokeman go

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/14/2016 4:00:36 AM

Zap

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

what is pokeman go

Its all the rave, talked about on the news but I have not paid that close attention to explain in detail. Just that people follow the directions and end up walking in different places. A recent news story about a young man who was following Poke man go which lead him to a dead body. He reported it to the police.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/14/2016 4:50:04 AM

jwarrenw13

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Pokemon Go. See the trailer at the link. And you have go get out doors to play it. And it is becoming incredibly popular. It might be described as semi-virtual reality using your phone to overlay game information onto the real world. I have one friend who was a certified couch potato who is now out with a group playing the game every evening. This will be a terrible description but it has something to do with capturing cute monsters and growing cute monsters and killing cute monsters with some of the action like a VR overlay over the real world as seen through your phone screen. Looking at the trailer at the link and a couple of other videos I've seen, I could see the idea being turned into something a little more hard core, like a hard core fantasy game or FPS. In fact it appears a graphics mod would make it look more hard core as it is. I'm just wondering if this will lead to a major new direction in gaming.

https://youtu.be/Qryf2F_QfXg

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/14/2016 4:58:51 AM

Max 86

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You pretty much nailed it. My grandson has been showing me the game.

Ok, here's the wargame version, you use phone to setup your forces on your current location and play real time battle against another person in same location.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/14/2016 9:15:28 PM

demyansk

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Just what we need for our young people. Walk in front of me while I am training on the bike, cut me off while you text, hit me while you have to answer the real important phone call while you're traveling 45 mph. Life was good before cell phones including your parents had no clue of what you were doing and didn't have a leash on you 24/7. This is the problem these days, these youngsters will be 50 years old some day and the only thing they witnessed was inside a 3"x5" screen - sad and don't text and drive

I just came across this story on the Pokemon game from Chief Bratton - NYC
https://nypost.com/2016/07/14/nypd-commissioner-bill-bratton-hates-pokemon-go/

< Message edited by demjansk -- 7/14/2016 9:26:32 PM >

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/14/2016 11:39:22 PM

hadberz

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Pokemon Go is a huge security risk. Our security folks strongly recommended that it be uninstalled due to the games tracking capabilities (apparently someone was lured into a trap and robbed at gunpoint) and the fact that it gives complete control over ones Google account to the developers i.e. they could read your emails, or do anything else Google allows the account owner to do. The account control part is supposedly being fixed, but no clue about the tracking part.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 12:26:39 AM

Mobeer

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How about some of these similar games:
http://www.mobipicker.com/games-like-pokemon-go/

Ingress seems the most wargame like to me.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 2:31:22 AM

jwarrenw13

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

How about some of these similar games:
http://www.mobipicker.com/games-like-pokemon-go/

Ingress seems the most wargame like to me.

See, I had no idea there were other games like this out there. Thanks. I have no interest in playing one of them, but I find the topic interesting. It seems a cheap way of creating a VR-like atmosphere without actual VR equipment.

As a high school teacher I also wonder what the impact will be when school starts again in the US in a couple of months. How many kids will be trying to play it during school?

(in reply to Mobeer)

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 4:08:40 AM

bairdlander2

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So, for the first time ever, adults, follow their phones around and walk off of cliffs, and die, looking for a Pokemon.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 4:36:12 AM

jwarrenw13

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

So, for the first time ever, adults, follow their phones around and walk off of cliffs, and die, looking for a Pokemon.

Well, to me that seems nobler than dying for a selfie.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taj-mahal-selfie-death_us_55ff99f1e4b00310edf7998e

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/01/german-tourist-falls-to-his-death-while-trying-to-take-photo-atop-machu-picchu/

http://nypost.com/2014/11/05/tourist-plunges-to-her-death-while-taking-selfie/

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 4:43:57 PM

IainMcNeil

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Augmented reality is very cool when combined with geolocation tech. However there are certainly a host of issues with Pokemon Go - not least the hollocaust center being a pokegym, a police station being broken in to because a pokemon can only be found inside and much much more.

I'm sure you could come up with some way to wargame using the geolocation tech but you wouldnt want to rely on finding people nearby as it requires too high a critical mass of players. It would have to be based around fighting over your locale with AI players, but with ways for players to help each other out to give reasons for friends to play and teams/clans to form. To work I think it would have to be at the lighter end of the strategy/wargame spectrum so more like a possible tower defence gameplay.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 5:14:31 PM

Kanov

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I'm imagining for the future something like Total war, Achtung Panzer, Combat Mission etc being displayed on your phone at surface level, moving your phone will give you different perspectives, like a mask overlay on the "real world" where the units are displayed in front of you if you look through your phone. You could check LOS by yourself by actually walking to location.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 6:03:02 PM

stuart3

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I think that I will feel safer playing Distant Worlds!

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/pok-mon-go-gamers-plunge-50ft-from-cliff-while-playing-a3296441.html

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/15/2016 6:08:28 PM

LarryP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuart3

I think that I will feel safer playing Distant Worlds!

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/pok-mon-go-gamers-plunge-50ft-from-cliff-while-playing-a3296441.html

DW will work your brain too, which would be different than the Pokemon crap.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/16/2016 11:46:19 PM

MrsWargamer

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Is there a future for wargames?

Weeeeeeeell I suspect I will have to die first as will a bunch of the rest of ya to keep card board slaughter from dying.

But I don't think there's a lot of wisdom in pretending it will outlive us.

Pokemon might be really on dope lately, but, people are dying from playing it. Clearly it has something War in the Pacific doesn't.

And even if the game is silly, it's got a hold of technology war games can only dream of.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 12:23:55 AM

mikmykWS

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Its just another thing that competes for the same chunk of time wargaming occupies. If you subscribe to market theory that should drive the quality of wargames up. So good for you little more work for us

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 1:24:40 AM

jwarrenw13

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Okay, I've been thinking about this while watching the failed coup. Imagine a game like Scourge of War. Imagine being able to access detailed terrain maps in your local area, or any area, and being able to set up virtual skirmishes where you play the role of say a brigade commander. The view you get through your phone screen is what the commander would have access to. First would be a terrain map. No units on it, just a map, though perhaps the game would allow you to draw things on the map. The game could also give you you order of battle and some logistical information, and maybe a situation briefing. Primarily the game would be played through the screen with your soldiers and the opposing units displayed over the real terrain you are looking at. You could order your units -- perhaps through voice commands. If you wanted to move yourself, you would have to physically move. You would have to pan your phone back and forth to get the full view. So there is an option.

Either that or playing on the actual battlefields, which I don't think would be appreciated or appropriate.

I could also see playing against a real opponent or playing co-op.

Or consider playing the same type game with WWII type skirmishes. Or playing as a tanker.

Of course this is incredibly complex, but there you go.

It might be better to do it with VR goggles though that would allow you to see both the real terrain you are on plus the game display.

But then there are ways to make your phone into a VR display by buying or creating simple cardboard holders.

https://vr.google.com/cardboard/get-cardboard/

Okay, Matrix, get on this.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 7:32:02 AM

battleground

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'Pokie-go' should be sufficient for most people with single digit IQs...

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 10:59:40 AM

stuart3

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quote:

Is there a future for wargames?

....

But I don't think there's a lot of wisdom in pretending it will outlive us.

It is far too early to write the wargame's obituary.

Back in the late 70's, early 80's my local wargame group was reinforced by a group of teenagers who joined in sufficient numbers to change the nature of many of the games played. What followed was two or three years of head shaking by us older gamers at the more juvenile games played by the youngsters. After that, however, these younger gamers matured, developed an interest in more traditional wargames, and added a degree of innovation to the campaigns they devised that improved the games for all of us.

I don't doubt that a significant minority of the new Pokemon hunters will also develop more mature tastes in gaming over the years. Wargames will live on, although they will always be a minority gaming interest in their purest form.

quote:

Pokemon might be really on dope lately, but, people are dying from playing it. Clearly it has something War in the Pacific doesn't.

And even if the game is silly, it's got a hold of technology war games can only dream of

As with other games, wargames will continue to evolve with technology. in my teenage years, I would have dismissed suggestions that wargaming could develop to include offerings such as WITE and DW, let alone the Total War series of games as sheer fantasy.

There will always be limits to what our senses will accept in terms of augmented reality. Imaginary monsters like Pokemon work very well, modern tanks may perhaps work, although I wonder how we could be persuaded to believe that an imaginary battle could be being fought along the High Street when we know that it isn't. Somehow I can't imagine anyone being convinced by the sight of a virtual Roman legion battling the gauls through their local branch of Marks & Spencers.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 1:09:03 PM

MrsWargamer

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Nope, conditions are so massively different that examples of dynamics from 30 years ago lack any relevance at all now.

Computers changed everything.
The internet changed everything.
The portability of hand held devices have changed everything.

Today the only people likely to be interested by a large screen dependent, complex interface requiring digital clone of a game from the 70s is someone that worships that manner of experience. It's easier to find female war gamers than it is to find someone that thinks War in the East is fun.

I miss the days of pushing card board, but in the last year I actually got rid of my treasured never sell it ASL and I only routinely play Hearthstone as it is quick easy free and against a human. Hard to beat quick easy free and against a human. Graphics are great, sound effects are great, I can play it on anything but prefer at home on my desktop (no battery issues).

I want to play my board games, but the truth is I think those days are already gone. SC3 may be a good game. I'm wanting Tigers on the Hunt.
But every day sees me wanting to do many things. War games never seems to reach the top of the list like it used to. It's not always my age, but it's often my back (not fond of leaning over big maps), or just unable to endure hours of sitting pushing cardboard virtual or digital.

Time if coming for this hobby of ours, or us, which is the same thing.

I couldn't pay my 22 year old son to play a war game.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 3:56:57 PM

Mobeer

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I'm thinking:

Augmented VR + Battlezone (1980) + Segway off-road = awesome

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 8:38:01 PM

stuart3

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I think that your definition of wargames is much narrower than mine MrsW.

The games I started with in the 60s involved painting model soldiers, mounting them on card bases, and moving them around table tops in accordance with the rule books.

Wargames, as such were effectively launched by H G Wells when he published his rules in the rule book "Little Wars" in 1913.

Avalon Hill type boardgames were a development that supplemented, but didn't displace the model soldiers. Likewise with games for computers, the internet and hand held devices.

Like the developments of the future will.

I have been out of touch with table top wargaming for a long time, but over the last 3 or 4 years have rediscovered the annual "Salute" wargames meet in London. The trade stalls typically comprise one company (Matrix) selling computer wargames, perhaps a handfull selling boardgames, and the vast majority still selling figures and terrain accessories for table top wargames. The visitors range from those my age to teenagers and younger.

Wargaming continues to thrive in it's various aspects and will continue to do so.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/17/2016 9:33:44 PM

MrsWargamer

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Oh I agree, the young seem to be ok with table top (which is generally a term I reserve for non card counter type war gaming).

So to some extent it might really be card board counter type war gaming that has un certain future.

I began my war gaming with green army men vs dolls and stuffed animals with my father on the floor :)

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to stuart3)

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/18/2016 5:14:59 AM

jwarrenw13

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I heard a good description of Pokemon Go on the radio today. I did not catch the name of the person describing it. He said what is important is that it is the first wildly popular augmented reality game (overlaying the real world with virtual images), and it is probably just the start. It is not the first such game, but it is a game changer. Iain used that phrase augmented reality earlier. I didn't notice it at the time. I'm not sure games like this will have any appeal to me, but I am interested in how this game will affect the future of gaming.

Again, think of such games as Scourge of War or Battle Academy set in an augmented reality or virtual reality universe. Games like that might attract the adult gaming community.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/18/2016 1:48:26 PM

IainMcNeil

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After having played it, the AR part of Pokemon is really quite dull. Its the collecting part linked to real world locations which I think made it a hit (linked with a huge brand that got people interested enough to go to said location to collect the virtual item). If you took out the AR I doubt it would have affected the sales.

I definitely dont see the death of wargames but I expect they'll have to transition with the times and those that cant or wont will suffer degrading sales. PC is actually in a period of boom right now.

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/18/2016 6:53:10 PM

wings7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
I definitely dont see the death of wargames but I expect they'll have to transition with the times and those that cant or wont will suffer degrading sales. PC is actually in a period of boom right now.

Yes indeed! I just ordered my dream rig from Puget Systems! PC gaming (and wargaming) will be around for a long time...

http://www.pcgamer.com/pc-shipments-decline-for-sixth-consecutive-quarter-but-gaming-pcs-are-on-the-rise/

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/19/2016 6:49:19 PM

Crossroads

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Imagine going out and all you'd see are hexes

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RE: Is there a future in wargaming with games like Poke... - 7/24/2016 2:25:59 PM

MunGuel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JW

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

So, for the first time ever, adults, follow their phones around and walk off of cliffs, and die, looking for a Pokemon.

Well, to me that seems nobler than dying for a selfie.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taj-mahal-selfie-death_us_55ff99f1e4b00310edf7998e

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/01/german-tourist-falls-to-his-death-while-trying-to-take-photo-atop-machu-picchu/

http://nypost.com/2014/11/05/tourist-plunges-to-her-death-while-taking-selfie/