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RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/10/2016 9:00:23 PM   
Triode

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 9/26/2014
Status: offline 		two project 1155 and 1164:

left ship - "Tributs" with MR-123-02/3

Navy do not like what they recive in "Admiral Tributs" modernization (MR-123-02/3 "Bagira-M" instead of MR-145 "Lev-218" )


so they start new modernization for project 1155 on "Marshal Shaposhnikov":

"Plan 2016-2018 set 2x4 KT-184 SCRC 3K24 "Uran" (launchers for 3M24U missiles), MR-123 "Vimpel-A" are replaced by MR-123-02 / 3 "Bagira", detection radar MR-760 "Fregat-MA" is replaced by detection radar MR-710 "Fregat-M", installed radar 5P-30N2 "Fregat-H2" ("Shaposhnikov" do not have MR-350 Podkat radar so ,5P-30N2 on Podkat place) , installed a complex EW TK-25-2, installed communication system R-779-28 "
state contracts :
31603315925 http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3410041&epz=true&style44=true in russian for MR-123-02/3
31603473837 http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3575986&epz=true&style44=true in russian "Uran" launchers
rumours say it will be 2x4 "Uran" instead of 2 RBU-6000
31503140033 http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=3213153&epz=true in russian for EW system TK-25-2
and etc.
there is plan to modernize four 1155 like this

we will see how it goes

(in reply to lowchi)
Post #: 1201
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/10/2016 9:18:17 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks Triode.

They are great looking ships.

Mike

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Post #: 1202
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/10/2016 9:56:09 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Do those external ASM launch tubes kill any chance of reducing cross sections. It just seems like those containers must have a huge radar return and allow some pretty solid RCS profiles for missiles.

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 1203
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/10/2016 10:22:30 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		These ships or so blocky and bumpy I don't think anything would really help.

Ship stealth is always kind of a funny subject IMHO. Beyond small combatants on rocky coasts I've never really bought into it.

Mike

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Post #: 1204
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/10/2016 11:09:39 PM   
FoxZz

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 4/28/2015
Status: offline 		About this topic, a very interesting article on the La Fayette frigates, first stealth frigates in the world, they're explaining the reason behind the stealth and the "results". Sadly, it's in French, but google trad should work.
If you cannot read it, open it in private navigation.

http://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/la-fayette-il-y-20-ans-la-france-inventait-la-fregate-furtive

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 1205
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/10/2016 11:53:24 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Eye Candy for the gang ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3782645/An-ominous-display-military-Russia-flexes-muscles-world-releasing-footage-drills-involving-12-500-troops-fighter-jets-anti-aircraft-missiles.html

(in reply to FoxZz)
Post #: 1206
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/11/2016 1:59:34 AM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Thanks Triode.
They are great looking ships.
Mike


That is a cool picture!


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Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 1207
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/11/2016 2:32:38 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

These ships or so blocky and bumpy I don't think anything would really help.

Ship stealth is always kind of a funny subject IMHO. Beyond small combatants on rocky coasts I've never really bought into it.

Mike


Just like in aircraft, its not so much about detection as ability to targeting, detection range, or maybe a little misdirection. Media and public perception of a battle of invisibility won't go away soon.

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 1208
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/11/2016 3:15:20 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FoxZz

About this topic, a very interesting article on the La Fayette frigates, first stealth frigates in the world, they're explaining the reason behind the stealth and the "results". Sadly, it's in French, but google trad should work.
If you cannot read it, open it in private navigation.

http://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/la-fayette-il-y-20-ans-la-france-inventait-la-fregate-furtive


That was a really great article. Thanks!

Mike

_____________________________


(in reply to FoxZz)
Post #: 1209
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/12/2016 1:43:25 AM   
Triode

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 9/26/2014
Status: offline 		New 5 gen submarine "Husky" from "Malahit" presentation,




4500-5000t
4x533mm TT
6x4 launchers for Kalibr/Onyx/Tsirkon


all who were waiting for project 705 resurrection rejoice , this is 705 on new technical level
So, if "Yasen" is "Russian Seawolf" , this is "Russian Virginia"

< Message edited by Triode -- 9/12/2016 1:51:13 AM >

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 1210
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/12/2016 3:17:40 AM   
Dysta


Posts: 1909
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline 		After the Buyan-Mod's cruise missile strike debut, it's understandable why Russia needs more smaller ships and subs for rebuilding the navy.

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Post #: 1211
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/12/2016 1:33:14 PM   
lowchi


Posts: 421
Joined: 10/14/2013
Status: offline 		Navy releases MQ-25 Stingray sensor RFI

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/navy-releases-mq-25-stingray-sensor-rfi-429225/

(in reply to Dysta)
Post #: 1212
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 1:28:26 PM   
Hongjian

 

Posts: 834
Joined: 1/2/2015
Status: offline 		http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-13/duterte-courts-china-for-weapons-ends-joint-patrols-with-u-s

quote:

Duterte Seeks Arms From China, Ends Joint Patrols With U.S.

Duterte Seeks Arms From China, Ends Joint Patrols With U.S.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said he’s considering buying weapons from Russia and China while also ending joint patrols with U.S. forces in the South China Sea.
In a televised speech Tuesday before military officers in Manila, Duterte said that two countries -- which he didn’t identify -- had agreed to give the Philippines a 25-year soft loan to buy military equipment. Later, he said that Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana and “technical people” in the armed forces would visit China and Russia “and see what’s best.”

While Duterte said he didn’t want to cut the “umbilical cord” with his allies, the remarks were the latest to signal a shift away from the Philippine-U.S. defense treaty in place since 1951. Since engaging in a public spat with U.S. President Barack Obama last week, Duterte has denounced American military killings during the early days of colonial rule and called for U.S. forces to leave the southern island of Mindanao.

“I don’t need jets, F-16 -- that’s of no use to us,” Duterte said. “We don’t intend to fight any country.”

Duterte also said the Philippines won’t participate in expeditions patrolling South China Sea to avoid being involved in a “hostile act.” “I just want to patrol our territorial waters,” he said.




Looks like a major diplomatic reversal of fortunes for the US, and benefitting China in the SCS.

But from the Naval and Defense point of view, quite interesting. I wonder what sort of COIN aircraft China could offer the Philippines.
Armed K-8 trainers should be most suitable, but maybe also Pterodactyl-I or CH-4 UCAVs...


< Message edited by Hongjian -- 9/13/2016 1:29:37 PM >

(in reply to lowchi)
Post #: 1213
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 2:40:37 PM   
Dysta


Posts: 1909
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hongjian

Looks like a major diplomatic reversal of fortunes for the US, and benefitting China in the SCS.


I don't think it's easy to tell US what to do, even for Duterte:

http://www.rappler.com/nation/146058-yasay-no-shift-ph-ties-us

quote:

MANILA, Philippines – President Rodrigo Duterte's statement against the presence of US forces in Mindanao does not signal a Philippine shift in policy on the United States, said Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay Jr on Tuesday, September 13.

Yasay gave the assurance a day after Duterte said at a public address that he does not want the presence of US special forces in Mindanao, again citing the US pacification campaign in the island group in the early 1900s, that led to the death of hundreds of Moro rebels.

"There is no shift in so far as our policy is concerned with respect to our close friendship with the Americans," Yasay said in an interview on ANC.


Once the pact is sealed, it's the president's responsibility to cooperate until the agreeable expiration on both sides. In that case, China will still be unwilling to sell weapon to Philippine as long as they have US presence.

But I can sense the scenario opportunity out there: What if Duterte is really gone wild against US, and Delfin (MoD of Philippine) is no longer believe the president can lead the country under severe disaster of diplomatic circumstances? It might be possible to following the Turkey's path, as a military coup to stop Duterte's insanity.

I rather stay silent about the political perspective with this, though. Just saying if coup really happened, this news can be the best backdrop.

< Message edited by Dysta -- 9/13/2016 2:45:11 PM >

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Post #: 1214
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 3:09:03 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		The Philippines thing is not going anywhere. The deep cultural relationship with the US is too strong. An incredible amount of money flows from the US to the Phil. through the government and through immigrants to the US. And the economic ties through companies is also keeping things afloat there. Filipinos are already generally tired of Duterte already. Marcos tried playing a similar game at the end and it got him nowhere.

Right now, the Philippines doesn't have to do much in the way of real defense work. The US does most of its heavy lifting. Severing ties with the US would crush the economy and force them to expand defense spending. If he truly believed in what he was doing, he wold drop all territorial claims to the islands. But he hasn't even hinted at that. If the US left Mindanao, all hell would break loose with the insurgency until the Philippines could expand defense spending. This is just some cage shaking to get some more money out of the US.

(in reply to Dysta)
Post #: 1215
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 3:23:19 PM   
Dysta


Posts: 1909
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline 		So using "Arms trade with China" as a slur to tell US provide more supports to Philippine? What kind of game is that? Wasn't they are happy with South Korean fighter-trainers and US patrol ships?

< Message edited by Dysta -- 9/13/2016 3:25:18 PM >

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Post #: 1216
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 4:12:35 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I have no idea what you are talking about...

I think you are asking why would a country threaten to ally itself with another country. I would like to think you weren't born yesterday, but I will explain anyway.

Countries do this to the US all the time. Threaten to more closely align to another a country. The US then comes in with more aid or better trade benefits. During the cold war, countries like Yugoslavia did it to Russia, and Egypt did it to everyone. It is a very common diplomatic tactic. Its not just about arms. Its about taxes, immigration, trade tariffs, etc.

(in reply to Dysta)
Post #: 1217
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 4:22:09 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Just to put some numbers on it...from the fox news report:

"The Wall Street Journal reported that the US earmarked $79 million in military aid for Manila. The country is also set to receive $42 million from a White House initiative to build its maritime capacity".

That's almost $120M just in arms and maritime assistance. And there is a few billion flowing into the country in commercial aid and money coming in from Filipinos living in the US.

I saw that the US has received no formal request to remove any personnel. Also noted that the speech was referring to Mindanao. There are still a lot of US military personnel on Luzon and northern islands.

I'll also point out that a large number of Filipinos serve in US military under a program where joining the US military is a path to US citizenship. I have several relatives in that program.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 1218
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/13/2016 4:29:28 PM   
Dysta


Posts: 1909
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline 		That's why I need you, wood. I was born a bit earlier than the collapse of USSR, such diplomatic measure is opaque to me.

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Post #: 1219
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/14/2016 7:03:30 AM   
Dysta


Posts: 1909
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline 		Boeing Saab unveiled the T-X trainer with a video and an animation demonstration:

http://newatlas.com/boeing-saab-t-x-roll-out/45404/

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Post #: 1220
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/14/2016 10:33:08 AM   
Hongjian

 

Posts: 834
Joined: 1/2/2015
Status: offline
First ever photo showing the DF-21D in flight! Grabbed from a recent PLA Rocket Force exhibition, it seems.

Text basically says that it is the DF-21D, dubbed an "assassin's mace" weapon of naval war and used to target surface ships. It was tested four times from September 2014 to July 2015.

Basically looks like a DF-21C MARV, but with a distinctive nose-cone.



(in reply to Dysta)
Post #: 1221
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/14/2016 12:46:11 PM   
xavierv


Posts: 517
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline 		Future Royal Australian Navy Air Warfare Destroyer HMAS Hobart Started Sea Trials

quote:

The Royal Australian Navy's future Air Warfare Destroyer HMAS Hobart started its first series of sea trials, called Builder’s Sea Trials on September 13, 2016. This phase will demonstrate the functionality of the ship’s propulsion, maneuvering, auxiliary, control and navigation systems. Following Builder’s Sea Trials, in early 2017 Hobart will undertake further trials to test and demonstrate the ship’s more advanced systems and the combat system performance.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4354

Russian Navy Pacific Fleet to receive six Project 636.6 submarines in 2019-2021 under new contract
quote:

The Russian Navy’s Pacific Fleet will take delivery of six Project 636.6 (NATO reporting name: Improved Kilo-class) diesel-electric submarines in 2019-2021 under a new contract, Admiralty Shipyards Director General Alexander Buzakov told journalists. The company will build the submarines.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4342

Russian Navy Ordered Three More Project 21631 Buyan-M Missile Corvettes with Kalibr System
quote:

The Russian Defense Ministry and Zelenodolsk Shipyard agreed last week on new deliveries of Project 21631 (NATO reporting name: Buyan-M-class) guided missile corvettes for the Russian Navy.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4351

Russian Navy Project 23120 logistic ship Elbrus starts builders sea trials
quote:

The Project 23120 lead logistic ship Elbrus has started undergoing builders sea trials at the Northern Shipyard in St. Petersburg in northwest Russia, the shipyard’s press office said.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4353

< Message edited by navyrecognition -- 9/14/2016 12:51:31 PM >

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www.navalnews.com

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Post #: 1222
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/14/2016 12:55:43 PM   
xavierv


Posts: 517
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline 		First SIGMA 10514 PKR Frigate for Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) Completes Sea Trials
quote:

The first of two SIGMA 10514 PKR naval frigates for the Indonesian Navy has successfully completed its sea trials as of 7 September. This is a major milestone on a project for which the first steel was cut in January 2014.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4350

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN9CI1vnYvk

F-35 & Aegis Combat System Successfully Demonstrate Integration Potential in 1st Live Missile Test
quote:

Two pre-eminent weapon systems, the F-35 Lightning II and Aegis Weapon System, worked together for the first time during a live fire exercise. The joint Lockheed Martin, (NYSE: LMT) U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps exercise was the first live fire missile event that successfully demonstrated the integration of the F-35 to support Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air (NIFC-CA).

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4349

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Post #: 1223
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/14/2016 4:39:17 PM   
FoxZz

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 4/28/2015
Status: offline 		I don't know if the Gilmore report on the F-35 was posted here yet, it's quiet interesting :

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3035572/DOT-amp-E-AF-IOC-Memo.pdf

(in reply to xavierv)
Post #: 1224
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/15/2016 12:39:40 AM   
CrazyIvan101

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline 		That DF-21D looks like a Pershing II!

(in reply to Hongjian)
Post #: 1225
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/15/2016 1:17:44 AM   
strykerpsg

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrazyIvan101

That DF-21D looks like a Pershing II!

LOL! Was just thinking the same thing.

< Message edited by strykerpsg -- 9/16/2016 6:22:49 AM >

(in reply to CrazyIvan101)
Post #: 1226
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/15/2016 1:20:17 AM   
CrazyIvan101

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline 		I mean it does make sense to copy the Pershing 2 as has everything one is looking for in terms of something like an ASBM.

(in reply to strykerpsg)
Post #: 1227
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/15/2016 1:53:19 AM   
Hongjian

 

Posts: 834
Joined: 1/2/2015
Status: offline 		There are only so many design variations you can do with a single warhead MARV on an IRBM, barring you want a hypersonic glide vehicle.

In fact, the "Pershing II" design was already utilzed in a number of other Chinese ballistic missiles with MARVs: DF-15B, DF-21C and DF-16.

Also, looking closer to the picture, it appears that the DF-21D has no control surfaces at the end of the missile body, unlike the Pershing-II. This would probably indicate either thrusters are used to correct the flight path, or, more likely, TVC (as this is something China has shown for other missiles).

Additionally, this picture confirms that the ASBM is first ejected out of the tube before the rocket engine is ignited, pointing to a cold-launch.



< Message edited by Hongjian -- 9/15/2016 2:23:56 AM >

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Post #: 1228
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/15/2016 3:10:49 AM   
Dysta


Posts: 1909
Joined: 8/8/2015
Status: offline 		Say whatever they like about the origin and operational criteria of Chinese weapons being unoriginal. Functionality for deterrence is one of the thing they matters. Besides, it's the tech for China can muster their resources and talents to build since 90s, you cannot expect they can built anything groundbreaking besides nukes until 2010s.

< Message edited by Dysta -- 9/15/2016 3:16:08 AM >

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Post #: 1229
RE: Naval and Defense News - 9/15/2016 5:50:13 AM   
NakedWeasel


Posts: 500
Joined: 1/14/2014
Status: offline 		Again, I remain skeptical. Until I see definitive proof that they can hit a moving target from a thousand miles away, I'm calling it a paper tiger. I mean, concept and theory are nice and all, but I'm not buying it until I see verifiable evidence that would stand up to the scrutiny of international observers and experts. This has everything to do with the abilities of its sensor suite. For the Chinese to suddenly be able to develop and field a weapons system that is hypersonic, trans-orbital, and theater-ranging, that can re-enter the Earth's atmosphere at sub-orbital velocity, and using an unknown radar to search and track its target well enough to maneuver, and successfully impact a moving ship far out at sea.... Yeah, I'm not buying that. Sorry, but I wasn't born yesterday.

< Message edited by NakedWeasel -- 9/15/2016 5:53:00 AM >

_____________________________

Though surrounded by a great number of enemies
View them as a single foe
And so fight on!

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Post #: 1230
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