RE: What would you like to see done next?

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 9/30/2016 5:22:47 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

IMHO, Netplay should have been the first priority. This would have allowed for a lot of people to play the game (with a good number of out-of-the-loop actions and strategies) and thus for bugs to be identified in a quicker manner.

Today the procedure is Bug-fixing ---> Test by a relatively small number of beta-testers ---> Release ---> Back to step one.

Beside, the game would have had been at least Netplay. Not to sound like a broken record (*), but after three years what we have are brainstormings about the best way to fix the game. Among the few who didn't move on in the meantime.

(*) Well, to be honest: who cares?

warspite1

This is a good plan in theory, but...... At no point EVER has Steve been sat twiddling his thumbs because there are no more bugs to fix. If that was the case then that idea would perhaps have mileage, but would in practice just mean an ever growing list of bugs waiting to be fixed.

As said above convoy routing is an issue that really needs addressing.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 9/30/2016 5:26:50 PM >

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 9/30/2016 10:46:00 PM

Centuur

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And Steve is working on Netplay. However, for as long as bugs in solitair are around which are stopping the game or have a huge impact on gameplay, those should be adressed first. You can't expect from players to have a game freezing in solitair, because a bug is fixed in Netplay and causes a regression bug in solitair. This happens quite often.

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/1/2016 3:53:38 AM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

And Steve is working on Netplay. However, for as long as bugs in solitair are around which are stopping the game or have a huge impact on gameplay, those should be adressed first. You can't expect from players to have a game freezing in solitair, because a bug is fixed in Netplay and causes a regression bug in solitair. This happens quite often.

I'm not sure I'm following you here (but maybe it is a language thing). To me playing solo is a placeholder while waiting for the game to be finished (and with this I mean free of bugs and with Netplay; I never expected an AI).

Actually, what is happening is that MWiF was a wonderful way to better learn the game, but since now I have the space when I want to play solo I put down the real, physical cardboard game. Not to mention that Italy has a small but devoted community who plays WiF over VASSAL (I never asked to be part of it, but the opportunity is there). Plus, of course, the international community you can find on BGG. And you can play solo on VASSAL too. For free (you need to have the original game of course).

So, why a bug in solitaire mode should be privileged over a bug in the "real thing" (Netplay)? To me, it makes no sense. And past experience (the original War in the Pacific, The Operational Art of War...) shows how there is nothing like people being able to play competitively against each other to have bugs jump out like if you kicked an anthill.

Anyway, this is spilled milk under the bridge (cit.) Yet, I'm still mildly surprised by how what remains of all the people who were waiting for this game is, after three years, accepting philosophically that the current stage is "Plans for defining a list for the next wave of bug-fixing" - in a game where part of the optional rules are still to be coded because..." well, you know, before those there are bugs to fix". This from someone who bought WiF when buying the three hardbound books was mandatory (i.e. before - SURPRISE! - it wasn't anymore; I wondered why ever since).

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/1/2016 6:02:35 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

And Steve is working on Netplay. However, for as long as bugs in solitair are around which are stopping the game or have a huge impact on gameplay, those should be adressed first. You can't expect from players to have a game freezing in solitair, because a bug is fixed in Netplay and causes a regression bug in solitair. This happens quite often.

So, why a bug in solitaire mode should be privileged over a bug in the "real thing" (Netplay)?

warspite1

Because the 'solitaire' mode is what people are using to play the game by PBEM. It is not just so one can play by himself. So, without a working netplay (and I have no idea what the timescale is for getting this ready) solitaire mode is pretty all important as it allows both solitaire players and PBEM ers to play the game.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/1/2016 6:20:47 AM >

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/1/2016 2:26:34 PM

brian brian

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I'm borrowing "spilled milk under the bridge." Sounds like a Rickyism from Trailer Park Boys. His best one for playing WiF is "sounds like a Supply & Command issue."

I predict that when NetPlay is perfected more people will use Solitaire mode to PBEM to get things done while another player is offline, anyway.

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/1/2016 5:19:58 PM

Courtenay

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All other modes depends on solitaire. If there is a bug in solitaire, it will be there in netplay. All solitaire bugs are netplay bugs, but not all netplay bugs are solitaire bugs. Also, usually it is harder to find and fix a bug while running netplay than when running solitaire. Thus one fixes solitaire bugs first.

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/1/2016 11:26:39 PM

Centuur

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And than there is the fact that bugs which are fixed in Netplay, sometimes causes bugs to appear in solitair, which are halting that type of gaming, making the game in itself totally unplayable.

This means that those bugs, when they appear, need to have top priority, because we depend on at least one type of gameplay to be running as best as possible (i.e.: solitair at this moment, since that is the one people are also using with Teamviewer and E-mail play).

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Post #: 37

RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 1:33:56 AM

BradK82

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I would like to also see people that actually own and play the game given more consideration than the overly aggressive people who don't and won't until it has 'insert feature here'

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 2:28:37 AM

Dencat

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As above with following addition: People should stop quoting WIF8.x rules as this is MWIF, not WIF8.x

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Post #: 39

RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 4:34:56 AM

RFalvo69

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Just to be clear, I did play the game in solo mode - because I do love WiF but hardly my gaming group could find the space to set it up. But now that I moved and I have my gaming room, I'm setting up the Deluxe version on a...

...BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG...

...table, and I'll play either solo or with my friends there. Meanwhile my PC gaming time is now devoted to WitP AE and HoI 3 + mods (the "finished" version, up to "Their Finest Hour" expansion; BTW, deriding HoI is futile, when you go against a grand strategy WWII game which works).

My point about a "Netplay First" strategy, as I mentioned, come from the fact that (if past experience taught me something) there is nothing like a lot of players who play the game competitively to have bugs jump out and eat your face like facehuggers. Sure, this would have led to a lot of broken games, restarts etc. But, again IMHO, maybe to one year of suffering; not three - and counting. Because, right now, I'm not seeing an end to this.

And this leads to my last question. I remember how excited I was when WiF finally appeared at Essen. Some people even bought the "Essen Version" personally signed by Harry Rowland. Every day I waited for the postman to ring the bell - something I didn't experience since when I started to buy things from Amazon in the 90s. And, yes, I was ready for bugs and the need of some patches - maybe for six months.

My question, since then, is: was Matrix aware of the state of their product when they launched it? And I will leave this at it.

Sorry for the rant but somehow the third anniversary since the Big Launch unlocked it inside me

Edit: @ brian brian: "Spilled milk under the bridge" is a quote from "Margin Call". It is really a great movie and I suggest it wholeheartedly

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 10/2/2016 4:36:57 AM >

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

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Post #: 40

RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 10:30:08 AM

juntoalmar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BradK82

I would like to also see people that actually own and play the game given more consideration than the overly aggressive people who don't and won't until it has 'insert feature here'

There are... but we are too busy playing to fight on the forums because DoD or PiF is not implemented...

As I discovered WiF with MWiF and I haven't even covered the optional rules included with the game right now, that's not an issue to me.

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 11:01:27 AM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Just to be clear, I did play the game in solo mode - because I do love WiF but hardly my gaming group could find the space to set it up. But now that I moved and I have my gaming room, I'm setting up the Deluxe version on a...

...BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG...

...table, and I'll play either solo or with my friends there. Meanwhile my PC gaming time is now devoted to WitP AE and HoI 3 + mods (the "finished" version, up to "Their Finest Hour" expansion; BTW, deriding HoI is futile, when you go against a grand strategy WWII game which works).

My point about a "Netplay First" strategy, as I mentioned, come from the fact that (if past experience taught me something) there is nothing like a lot of players who play the game competitively to have bugs jump out and eat your face like facehuggers. Sure, this would have led to a lot of broken games, restarts etc. But, again IMHO, maybe to one year of suffering; not three - and counting. Because, right now, I'm not seeing an end to this.

And this leads to my last question. I remember how excited I was when WiF finally appeared at Essen. Some people even bought the "Essen Version" personally signed by Harry Rowland. Every day I waited for the postman to ring the bell - something I didn't experience since when I started to buy things from Amazon in the 90s. And, yes, I was ready for bugs and the need of some patches - maybe for six months.

My question, since then, is: was Matrix aware of the state of their product when they launched it? And I will leave this at it.

Sorry for the rant but somehow the third anniversary since the Big Launch unlocked it inside me

Edit: @ brian brian: "Spilled milk under the bridge" is a quote from "Margin Call". It is really a great movie and I suggest it wholeheartedly

Ahh. So it is frustration which is the reason for this post. Well, consider this for a moment. I don't think there is anyone in the beta team who isn't frustrated with the amount of time that it takes to fix bugs. Even Steve sometimes ventilate things in the private forum about this. MWIF looks like a multiheaded monster. You chop of a head, and there grows another one. Very, very frustrating, not only to the players, but to the test team and Steve too.

And Netplay is available. The more testing of Netplay the better it is. We need more bug reports on that part of the game. Only: be prepared for a pretty rough ride and be patient when the game freezes. Simply put the bugs with both sides gamesaves in the Tech forum on Netplay bugs.

And on your question: "was Matrix aware of the state of the game", I can tell you that since the NDA I signed has expired some time ago: the answer is "yes and no". Yes, because they knew Netplay wasn't working. No, because we were all surprised by the huge number of bugs which happened in solitair play after release. That proved something, we didn't expect. That is that it is impossible to test all different situations in this game, due to all the different optional rules and tactics people are using in this game.

< Message edited by Centuur -- 10/2/2016 11:02:27 AM >

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 1:16:21 PM

BradK82

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Just to be clear, I did play the game in solo mode - because I do love WiF but hardly my gaming group could find the space to set it up. But now that I moved and I have my gaming room, I'm setting up the Deluxe version on a...

I was not referencing your fair points about netplay. It is obvious you play from the posts. Does not even really bother me about people who play WIF and are knowledgable talking about what they need MWIF to be in order to be interested. These post are usually interesting and sometimes educational to read. It is the small subset who. seem to have little clue what they are asking in terms of total development of the game for everyone's benefit. (And even then only when they are aggresive about it:) Anyway, I share your frustration and the teams about lack of feature development. I guess we all get a little venty about it every once in awhile. On the positive, guess it shows we still care.

< Message edited by BradK82 -- 10/2/2016 2:56:52 PM >

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RE: What would you like to see done next? - 10/2/2016 1:27:34 PM

BradK82

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Double post

< Message edited by BradK82 -- 10/2/2016 1:29:51 PM >

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Post #: 44