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RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 8:32:39 AM

Encircled

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quote:

At any rate, to each his own, I've found a system that works very well for me and I use it. Mileage will vary of course.

This. Once you've looked at where your convoys have to go to, then the routes are fairly obvious.

Of course, if you run in a direct line, you will maximise your fuel efficency but its then really easy for the allies to plonk subs on the route.

Like everything for the Japanese player, its a trade off. I preferred security and safety to optimum fuel savings, rationale being that the less tankers I lost, the more I'd be able to ship. But again, each to their own.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 11:37:13 AM

LargeSlowTarget

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Late-coming comment on convoys : Size does matter!

Be aware that in the game, a sub can target only one ship per attack. So a huge convoy does not mean more targets to shoot at - it is one target per attack, regardless of convoy size. Obviously, the number of convoys impacts the number of potential attacks. Many small convoys shuttling between Japan and the SRA with necessarily few escorts per convoy give more and better chances to Allied subs to find a convoy and attack successfully. Few and well-protected huge convoys are harder to find, subs will have fewer chances to attack their single target and have to face much stronger escorts.

So, make them big!

Of course huge convoys in small ports is less than optimal from a loading / waiting POV and baby-sitting/tailoring each convoy for optimal use of port sizes is time-consuming. The solution is a spoke-hub system, with relatively small convoys of small, slow and short-ranged xAKL / TK with a few equally slow, short-ranged xAKL-converted-escorts collecting resources, fuel and oil from the source bases and shipping them over relatively short distances to a larger port - which will serve as hub for huge convoys of the biggest, fastest, longer-legged ships and lots of real escorts. The hubs are obvious (don't think I'm giving away JFB secrets here) - Singapore for sure, Soerabaja, Saigon, Manila, some players also use Davao and/or Palau. The faster medium-sized classes are being used for supply runs to the front bases, the slower ones on the shorter and direct "source to Japan" routes from Manschukuo/Korea and Hokkaido / Sachalin.

In my current game I'm running just six huge hub-to HI convoys. I group the ships by size and cruise speed, i.e. a convoy is usually containing only one or two merchant ship / Tk classes. For example, one convoy contains all Yusen N and all Tonan TKs, which both have a 13kn cruise speed. Limas mix with Std-B TK conversions and Type-1 TM tankers (all 11kn cruise speed), Adens with Std-A TK conversions (10kn cruise speed). All six have a dozen escorts and a CVE or at least a CS with ASW-trained torpedo bombers embarked. Granted, some tailoring is required at the end points to optimize docking space, but I think the protection offered by huge convoys is worth the waiting time for ships already loaded. I manage to keep the SRA well-drained of fuel, oil and resources, with few losses suffered from enemy subs so far. I could comment further on the routing, but the enemy might be reading...

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 10/7/2016 11:38:21 AM >

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Post #: 62

RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 12:19:03 PM

Encircled

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Collisions a factor with that?

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Post #: 63

RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 1:07:43 PM

LargeSlowTarget

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In my experience negligible for convoys at cruise speed. Happens more frequently with TFs in surface action, for example an amphib TFs surprised by an enemy SAG and scrambling to get moving (don't ask how I know).

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 10/7/2016 1:08:02 PM >

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Post #: 64

RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 5:06:54 PM

Lokasenna

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I'm pretty sure that several of my convoys would not even fit on the screen if a surface action were to occur...

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Post #: 65

RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 6:57:37 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Of course huge convoys in small ports is less than optimal from a loading / waiting POV and baby-sitting/tailoring each convoy for optimal use of port sizes is time-consuming. The solution is a spoke-hub system, with relatively small convoys of small, slow and short-ranged xAKL / TK with a few equally slow, short-ranged xAKL-converted-escorts collecting resources, fuel and oil from the source bases and shipping them over relatively short distances to a larger port - which will serve as hub for huge convoys of the biggest, fastest, longer-legged ships and lots of real escorts. The hubs are obvious (don't think I'm giving away JFB secrets here) - Singapore for sure, Soerabaja, Saigon, Manila, some players also use Davao and/or Palau. The faster medium-sized classes are being used for supply runs to the front bases, the slower ones on the shorter and direct "source to Japan" routes from Manschukuo/Korea and Hokkaido / Sachalin.

This. The only real difference is that I run smaller convoys from the hubs. Subs will always be there. In the early game they are far less of a threat as their torpedoes generally don't work. Later in the game, the subs are far more effective, but by this time rolls around, I'm far more worried about a CVBG showing up and having a field day on a lightly defended large convoy. Especially since 1943 on, the Allied player gets a lot of big toys and can take some extra chances.

It may very well come to a point where I have to consolidate the smaller convoys to help with the sub threat, but until then I'll keep doing what I do.

Basically what it comes down to is that as a Japanese player, you are in a no win situation with the convoys, you have to have them, but you can't really protect them. Kinda historical huh?

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Post #: 66

RE: Japan Questions - 10/7/2016 7:05:21 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Basically what it comes down to is that as a Japanese player, you are in a no win situation with the convoys, you have to have them, but you can't really protect them. Kinda historical huh?

Well, by going big you can increase survivability quite some if it is against subs. And in 42-43 it IS subs vs resource convoys, unless you are doing something wrong. Less contacts - less chances for subs. More escorts in a convoy - less chances for subs.

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 10/7/2016 7:42:11 PM >

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Post #: 67

RE: Japan Questions - 10/8/2016 3:00:10 AM

Anthropoid

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@ Barb and Lokasenna, Thanks! More helpful bits!!

@LST, GetAssista, Shark7, Encirciled: thanks your discussion clears up the relative merits of bigger, in this case bigger IS better!

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/8/2016 8:36:59 PM

Alpha77

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Most important, get defense vs. Allied bombers asap (not only 4Es but most IJ planes have even probs with B25 etc.).

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/8/2016 11:16:11 PM

Anthropoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Most important, get defense vs. Allied bombers asap (not only 4Es but most IJ planes have even probs with B25 etc.).

That is axiomatic!

But which plane (excluding the Jets) is the unequivocal _best_ Japanese air superiority fighter?

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 4:04:07 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Most important, get defense vs. Allied bombers asap (not only 4Es but most IJ planes have even probs with B25 etc.).

I disagree. My planes have been pulverizing B-25s.... when they can get past the fighters, anyway. B-25s die like flies.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 8:14:26 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
But which plane (excluding the Jets) is the unequivocal _best_ Japanese air superiority fighter?

It all depends on the time, role and cost. Ki-94-II shreds but you will hardly see it operational. It would be a mistake to pursue a wunderwaffe at the expense of good but not _best_ fighters

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 11:33:34 AM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Most important, get defense vs. Allied bombers asap (not only 4Es but most IJ planes have even probs with B25 etc.).

I disagree. My planes have been pulverizing B-25s.... when they can get past the fighters, anyway. B-25s die like flies.

Time period, PBM or AI, Elite, plane type..? I am talking of 1942 and normal squadrons not put together elite ones.

Here an example from last turn (PBM, Ap,42):
orning Air attack on 1st Ind. Engineer Regiment, at 114,138 (Lunga)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 14
A6M2 Zero x 9
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 8

Allied aircraft
A-29 Hudson x 3
B-17D Fortress x 3
B-17E Fortress x 20
B-26 Marauder x 16

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
A-29 Hudson: 2 destroyed
B-17D Fortress: 1 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 5 damaged
B-26 Marauder: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

(No escort with allied bombers, only 3 shot down, as I said this is not a single case this happens more often than not, and my flyers are NOT elite, we can not count elite sqdr - which the ones the you named probably were and which planes have they - if later in war it is possible Frank etc. can shoot down more bombers but then the Allies have more than enough and also P47s etc)

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 10/9/2016 12:08:42 PM >

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 12:07:02 PM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

But which plane (excluding the Jets) is the unequivocal _best_ Japanese air superiority fighter?

No idea, but so far it seems the Frank, if you can make it that long and your bases are not trashed meanwhile...
Zero and Oscar are NOT and those will be the main planes you only have for long time. Only few sqdr can get Nicks which are ok vs. 2E bombers but also have probs vs. 4e.

I never played as far to use Frank,but in my last game (vs. AI) I had some Jack and Georges, however the AI is so stupid you do not need those but are fine with Tojos and M5 Zero

I also played the Allies vs Ai, and you can completly dominate them, the only plane I remember I had limited trouble with as Allied were Tojos (in 43) Oscars drop like flies

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 10/9/2016 12:26:22 PM >

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 4:43:14 PM

Anthropoid

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So an optimum fighter path would be something like:

IJN:
Claude -> Zero (variants) -> Zam?

IJA:
Nate -> Oscar (few variants) -> Tojo -> Frank?

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 10/9/2016 4:54:20 PM >

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 5:21:40 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
So an optimum fighter path would be something like:

Are you planning to ask here every essential Japan question w/o looking through the forum first?
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4138290

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 10:03:50 PM

Anthropoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
So an optimum fighter path would be something like:

Are you planning to ask here every essential Japan question w/o looking through the forum first?
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4138290

As long as I keep getting awesome responses like that one yes!

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/9/2016 10:55:54 PM

rustysi

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Yeah, that thread should keep you busy for a while.

Now get off my lawn.

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Post #: 78

RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 5:28:26 PM

Anthropoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Yeah, that thread should keep you busy for a while.

Now get off my lawn.

Are you trying to say that there is a pixel shortage?

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 9:14:15 PM

geofflambert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I also played the Allies vs Ai, and you can completly dominate them, the only plane I remember I had limited trouble with as Allied were Tojos (in 43) Oscars drop like flies

I've used Oscars to sweep Hurricane bases when the Tojos couldn't reach that far and had reasonable results. You just have to be careful how when and where you use them.

Frank is definitely the best interceptor and all around fighter. It beats out George if for no other reason than you won't be able to staff George squadrons with adequate pilots.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 10:15:20 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I also played the Allies vs Ai, and you can completly dominate them, the only plane I remember I had limited trouble with as Allied were Tojos (in 43) Oscars drop like flies

I've used Oscars to sweep Hurricane bases when the Tojos couldn't reach that far and had reasonable results. You just have to be careful how when and where you use them.

Frank is definitely the best interceptor and all around fighter. It beats out George if for no other reason than you won't be able to staff George squadrons with adequate pilots.

I dislike Oscars. If you're playing PDU On, I don't see a reason to ever use them once you have the Tojo. And then you can get the Ki-100 Tony also...

Which brings me to Frank and Tony. The Frank is beastly, yes, but IMO the Tony is just as good as an interceptor. Note that it actually has better guns. CL cannons are important for shooting down bombers.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 10:22:49 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I dislike Oscars. If you're playing PDU On, I don't see a reason to ever use them once you have the Tojo.

Yes, they drop if a pebble is thrown their way, but ain't no other one with that range in IJA. You still want your bombers escorted while you use them, and you do not want to spend IJN fighter pilots as escort fodder

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 11:36:53 PM

InfiniteMonkey

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For starters, you need to understand some key things about aircraft R&D.
- Factories only contribute toward research progress when they are fully repaired
- If you have 500 of the engine that powers the plane you are researching, you get an extra point towards research progress at each factory that produces a research point in a given turn
- Research points granted from the engine bonus cost you an engine.
- There are not any diminishing returns in research.
- Research factories do not repair every turn
- Research factories will not repair if you do not have sufficient supply.
- Research factories convert to their upgrade plane for free. e.g. a fully repaired A6M5 research factory converts to a fully repaired A6M5b research factory (in Scenario 1)
- The chance that an R&D factory is 1 in the number of months til the aircraft is due. For example, if you research the A6M2-N Rufe (due 4/42) in 12/41, you will have approximately a 1 in 4 chance of repairing the factory each turn. Inside of 30 days, 1 repair per day.
Implications for research:
1. You may have heard that the optimal size for an R&D factory is 30. This is because you only get one extra research point from engines PER FACTORY. It is therefore better to have 2 x 30 research factories than to have 1 x 60.
2. The optimal size of the research factory is related to the time til the aircraft arrives. Contrary to popular belief, building every research factory to size 30 IS NOT OPTIMAL FOR ALL SITUATIONS! For an aircraft like the Ki-84 Ia Frank (a JFB favorite for research), DO NOT TRY TO BUILD UP TO a 30 size research factory. In fact, I recommend changing the 0x (56) Frank factory at start to SOMETHING ELSE. Remember: Factories only contribute toward research progress when they are fully repaired. That 0x(56) factory will not repair fully (and will therefore contribute nothing to research) for YEARS. With a 3/44 arrival date, you have about a 1 in 27 chance to repair each day. If each repair takes the expected time to repair, the factory will begin contributing to the research of the Ki-84 sometime around Halloween day in 1943��.. Only 6 months before it is due to arrive anyway. The optimal way to accelerate planes like the Frank is to research with MANY factories til you have approximately 100 production repaired. You increment the size of factories ONLY when they are fully repaired and only by 1. Over time, some factories will repair more than others. Keep the big ones and reassign the smaller ones. Let's say I research with 20 factories until I have 100 fully repaired production units. Each month, with those in operation I get 100 research points and accelerate the Frank by one month. How long will it take me to begin accelerating the Frank? Around mid-April 1942, I will begin accelerating the Frank at a rate of about 1 month per month. I will get the Frank starting around 3/43 instead of 3/44.
3. You can accelerate late models of some air frames very easily.
a. Research the A6M2-N Rufe at 5 factories of size 30.
b. Build the A6M8's engine pool up to 500. (it uses the Ha33)
c. As each Rufe research factory gets fully built, switch it to A6M8. You must convert the factory one step at a time: A6M2-N to A6M5, A6M5 to A6M5b, A6M5b to A6M5c, A6M5c to A6M8. Notice that upgrading along the aircraft's upgrade path does not cause the factory to be damaged and it stays FULLY REPAIRED.
d. Plan on flying the A6M8 starting in late 42 instead of 8/45. Yes, this really works.
e. A similar plan works with the Ki-61Ia to Ki-61 Ib to Ki-61 Id to Ki 61-II KAI to Ki-100-Ia
f. Or Ki-44-Iia to Ki-44-Iic
g. Or Ki43-Iia to Ki-43-IIIa or Ki-43-IV
On a different note, you probably want to distinguish between escort (long range) and CAP (gun rating/durability) for fighters. The Ki-43's primary advantage is range. It should be escort, not CAP. As Japan, you have to fit the square pegs into the square holes and the round ones into the round ones. Improper use of limited resources is going to cost you as Japan. AFB's have no such worry. From day 1, they only get stronger.

God, what a pain in the ass to post... sorry for all the edits, but I had to figure out what the forum was whining about when it said I could not post links. I had none in the post, but it kept complaining about them.

< Message edited by InfiniteMonkey -- 10/11/2016 11:46:31 PM >

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 11:47:04 PM

geofflambert

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There was some trouble yesterday with the forum, don't know what yours is. Anyway I had very unsatisfactory results with Tony, the bombers were shooting them down at a high rate. For air superiority you need to sweep. Interceptors cannot do that. If you can sweep with Tojos, do it. If not, but Oscars can, do it. Tony can't do it until late when it gets some range, and by then you probably can't be doing that anyway.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 11:50:15 PM

InfiniteMonkey

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I think my problem is that this account is new to me and I cannot remember the e-mail address my old account was on. It has been years since I had to drop WitP due to RL and I just came back to WitP:AE.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 11:50:28 PM

geofflambert

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I see, InfiniteMonkey, if you're going to post something that long you need to first compose it in Word or Notepad, then when you're satisfied with it copy and paste it to the forum. You're fairly likely to get logged off the forum before you can complete your opus, otherwise.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/11/2016 11:53:06 PM

InfiniteMonkey

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I was cutting and pasting from my ongoing opus "How to be a Japanese Fan Boy" That is the preamble to the section on R&D... So I DID prepare it in another app... and it was so pretty in OneNote. :*(

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/12/2016 12:00:14 AM

geofflambert

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I read your thing very fast and could probably read it again more carefully, but there seems to be a misconception that R&D factories contribute nothing until they are "fully" repaired. The repair format is just a simplification, they aren't being repaired at all, they're being built from scratch (if they start at 0) Anyway, factories at value "1" do contribute. If a factory is set to R&D Franks, by all means let it do so. I can't imagine a justification for not doing so. You might consider converting another R&D factory or two to Franks.

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Post #: 88

RE: Japan Questions - 10/12/2016 12:24:39 AM

InfiniteMonkey

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Not true.

Rather than debate it, I encourage you to do the following test:

- Open scenario editor
- Open scenario 1
- Click on locations
- Search for Maebashi
- Find KI-84a factory and set to 30 repaired and 25 disrupted instead of 0/55
- save scenario to slot 69 (or any available slot)
- run Witp
- Choose new AI game as Japan and choose the scenario you saved.
- open production window
- filter for RD air only
- scroll to Maebashi's ki-84 research plant.
- mouse over Ki-84a and confirm it says "Click to activate change menu for Ki-84a Frank (R&D 0%)"
- run turn
- Open production window again
- mouse over Ki-84a and confirm it says "Click to activate change menu for Ki-84a Frank (R&D 0%)"
- run a half dozen turns if you want...
- Open production window again
- mouse over Ki-84a and confirm it says "Click to activate change menu for Ki-84a Frank (R&D 0%)"
- Go back to scenario editor. Change your disrupted from 25/55 to 0. and save scenario
- repeat process.

- mouse over Ki-84a and confirm it says "Click to activate change menu for Ki-84a Frank (R&D 1%)"

I just retested and got the same result. Partially repaired factories DO NOT advance research.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/12/2016 1:41:04 AM

Anthropoid

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Well that is even more arcane than I had imagined it to be . . .

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