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RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies.

 
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RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 11/22/2015 3:35:30 AM   
falcon2006

 

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The stealth capability of 022 can not prevent it from being detected at a long distance by enemy sensors on various airborne platforms. These sensors include fighter-borne fire control radars, helicopter-borne surveillance radars, AEWs, infrared sensors and even LLTVs. Type 022 is a mistake of the PLAN. Fortunately, they were just aware of that.

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Post #: 31
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 12/20/2015 2:26:40 PM   
temkc5

 

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Hey I hope all is well Araner.


Can we get a progress report me and our fellow gamers would love to support you in your work

Please .

Ps. I don't think you give yourself enough credit to your two scenarios ("Just another China vs United States scenario") there are many Concepts in play here regarding A2/AD. please try to think of it in a conceptual strategy way instead of country vs country.

many thanks for taking the time to read this

< Message edited by temkc5 -- 12/20/2015 3:33:02 PM >


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Post #: 32
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/25/2016 7:22:06 PM   
Araner

 

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Hello All!
There may be more recent updates in some other threads since I tend to lose track of these things... In any case, thank you TEMKC 5 for your kind words!As such, I'll try to do my best to post updates in the most relevant spot.
I have indeed continued my interest in the area of counter A2/AD operations as it remains highly relevant. I have been taking advantage of Steam Workshop compatibility as a means to develop and organize my simulations. Thus far I have two scenarios posted to the workshop. "Distributed Lethality" was the first and examines the current US naval doctrine known by the same name. "Dragon SEAD" Examines operations necessary for securing air superiority after a hypothetical first strike on US/Allied facilities in the Pacific has already taken place.

My current scenario in development picks up where "Dragon SEAD" left off and tests US/Allied capabilities in eliminating PLA land-based, offensive missile inventories after air superiority has been attained.
I have also included a discussion section for each scenario where users are invited to discuss relevant operational/strategic issues therein.


< Message edited by Araner -- 10/25/2016 7:31:29 PM >

(in reply to temkc5)
Post #: 33
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/25/2016 8:35:46 PM   
Araner

 

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The scenarios are very open ended and I'm sure everybody will have their own conclusion, but there were a number of key takeaways I learned in the process of creating the scenarios which I probably wouldn't have understood without CMANO as a visualization tool... The "Distributed Lethality" scenario did in fact appear to confirm the logic of respective naval doctrine which emphasizes allocation of more offensive firepower even at the expense of defensive capabilities. In other words, if a standard VLS has only 60 tubes, then you have a better chance of victory if you rely on 20 instead of 30 SM-6 SAMs as long as you allocate for 10 LRASMs. The scenario proved enemy units will be less likely to score a kill shot if they're fighting for their own survival.

Likewise, the "Dragon SEAD" scenario provided even clearer insights by showing how PLA critical radar/EW units are located deep enough in the interior that US/allied units would require long range in addition to stealth capabilities. This would perhaps help explain why the navy is opting for an unmanned tanker aircraft in lieu of a long range/stealthy penetrator. It also explains why the USAF would seemingly invest so much in a new manned bomber program in a budget-constrained environment. Indeed, the picture I came away with is one where the USAF would be called on for most of the front line air ops, while the USN/USMC would serve to protect critical ISR/logistical capabilities.

My ultimate goal is to develop a scenario which models each subcomponent of the so-called "Third-Offset" strategy. Wherein each service branch has responded with a new approach according to their own assets and capabilities. I covered surface naval warfare with "DL", long range air ops in "Dragon SEAD" and persistent domain awareness in my current effort. Next up I hope to model proposals involving land-based (Army) and amphibious (USMC) forces.
The land-based element in a counter-A2AD campaign would essentially give the PLA a "taste of their own medicine" by deploying land-based missile batteries to critical maritime choke points along the first island chain. As such terrain is not likely to be sovereign US territory, close coordination with allied nations would be a precondition. As such, the leading proponent of this approach has not thus far been the US Army, but rather the JGSDF. So long as the facilities database accurately reflects available land-based missile assets, then modelling such a scenario shouldn't be too much of a challenge.

The final component of the offset strategy is being aggressively pursued by the USMC though the USAF is also pursuing a similar approach. As the amphibious service, the USMC is in the unique position of being able to apply elements of both a maritime and land-based strategy. In the past this might've meant Iwo-Jima style landing operations on a fixed beachead. With the MV-22 Osprey, F-35B and America Class LHAs at their disposal however, the USMC are now at the cutting edge of tactical development. Such tactics are beginning to coalesce around a concept of "Expeditionary Advanced Bases" wherein rapidly deployable air bases can be packed inside a single KC-130, set up in the most austere locations and be capable of servicing, refueling and rearming F35Bs for a predetermined period before packing up and moving to another location. The USAF, has a similar concept called "Rapid Raptor" wherein a small squadron of F-22s and everything needed to sustain them can be carried in a single C-17 and deploy anywhere in the world within 24 hours. Most recently the two forces have been working together in a unified concept of "Untethered air operations".
Such operations would be very exciting to model in CMANO but would be very challenging in its present iteration. Game features giving more detailed control over logistical ops would need development. To be sure, logistics may not be as sexy to the average gamer as sexy as a dogfight, but such features would go a long way towards supporting more amphibious operations in general.

(in reply to Araner)
Post #: 34
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 5:03:42 AM   
magi

 

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Araner...
"The land-based element in a counter-A2AD campaign would essentially give the PLA a "taste of their own medicine" by deploying land-based missile batteries to critical maritime choke points along the first island chain. As such terrain is not likely to be sovereign US territory, close coordination with allied nations would be a precondition. As such, the leading proponent of this approach has not thus far been the US Army, but rather the JGSDF. So long as the facilities database accurately reflects available land-based missile assets, then modelling such a scenario shouldn't be too much of a challenge."

i have long believed this as stated above...... i believe there should multi faceted contingency plans for dominating and prevailing in the region..political..economic and military... but one component should certainly be SLOC denial.... how long could china hold out if they could not use their sea lanes...?

"The final component of the offset strategy is being aggressively pursued by the USMC though the USAF is also pursuing a similar approach. As the amphibious service, the USMC is in the unique position of being able to apply elements of both a maritime and land-based strategy. In the past this might've meant Iwo-Jima style landing operations on a fixed beachead. With the MV-22 Osprey, F-35B and America Class LHAs at their disposal however, the USMC are now at the cutting edge of tactical development. Such tactics are beginning to coalesce around a concept of "Expeditionary Advanced Bases" wherein rapidly deployable air bases can be packed inside a single KC-130, set up in the most austere locations and be capable of servicing, refueling and rearming F35Bs for a predetermined period before packing up and moving to another location. The USAF, has a similar concept called "Rapid Raptor" wherein a small squadron of F-22s and everything needed to sustain them can be carried in a single C-17 and deploy anywhere in the world within 24 hours. Most recently the two forces have been working together in a unified concept of "Untethered air operations".

interesting..... but very complicated....

(in reply to Araner)
Post #: 35
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 5:05:32 AM   
magi

 

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Joined: 2/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Araner

Hello All!
There may be more recent updates in some other threads since I tend to lose track of these things... In any case, thank you TEMKC 5 for your kind words!As such, I'll try to do my best to post updates in the most relevant spot.
I have indeed continued my interest in the area of counter A2/AD operations as it remains highly relevant. I have been taking advantage of Steam Workshop compatibility as a means to develop and organize my simulations. Thus far I have two scenarios posted to the workshop. "Distributed Lethality" was the first and examines the current US naval doctrine known by the same name. "Dragon SEAD" Examines operations necessary for securing air superiority after a hypothetical first strike on US/Allied facilities in the Pacific has already taken place.

My current scenario in development picks up where "Dragon SEAD" left off and tests US/Allied capabilities in eliminating PLA land-based, offensive missile inventories after air superiority has been attained.
I have also included a discussion section for each scenario where users are invited to discuss relevant operational/strategic issues therein.


cant you post attachments here..... i really want to see these..... hurry now....

< Message edited by magi -- 10/26/2016 5:19:10 AM >

(in reply to Araner)
Post #: 36
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 9:35:15 PM   
mikkey


Posts: 3142
Joined: 2/10/2008
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+1 for uploading your scenarios here or in "Mods and Scenarios" section. Thanks.

< Message edited by mikkey -- 10/26/2016 9:36:29 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 10:20:13 PM   
Araner

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 10/27/2014
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For some reason I always get an "OnThread Exception", "TheEx != null" and a series of errors whenever I try to package any scenario for distribution.
Steam Workshop is the only distribution method that has ever worked for me unfortunately... If anyone has any suggestions, I'll be happy to try them.

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 38
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 10:54:48 PM   
mikkey


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Araner, you can upload only your scenario *.scen file from Scenarios folder.

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Post #: 39
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 11:15:57 PM   
Araner

 

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Joined: 10/27/2014
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quote:

interesting..... but very complicated....


My thoughts exactly... I think I tried to set up a crude "Rapid Raptor" deployment by adding a flight of F-22s and a single C-17 to a one-way ferry mission and then manually arming the F-22s after a certain period of time had elapsed since the C-17 landed. Modelling true "Untethered Ops" as currently envisioned would be much more complex. You would have to change the home base, weapons loadout, mission plan etc... for entire squadrons as an event condition that would need to be triggered after a C-17/KC-130/MV-22 lands at a small airfield and a period of time has elapsed.
What makes the Untethered Ops concept such a potential game-changer however, is not so much in the platforms or weaponry involved but rather in the novel use of logistics as a force multiplier. So just as the wars of the past 20 years have blurred the boundaries between tactical, operational and strategic warfare, the wars of the next 20 years may blur the distinction between logistics and tactics. Such an approach would certainly fit the current "Third Offset" line of thinking as logistics have traditionally been an area where the US Military has excelled.
In terms of game mechanics, this may mean more fine-grained control over magazines and vessel/aircraft loadouts. Especially if it allows for transferable payloads, which as I mentioned previously would also open up more possibilities for amphibious scenarios. After all, when it comes down to it, amphibious ops are really about how much stuff/people you can drop off without the enemy disrupting it. Without such capabilities, all those hundreds, if not thousands, of support ships, landing craft, cargo planes etc... in the database serve little purpose more than to provide something for the opposing side to shoot at.

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 40
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 11:25:09 PM   
Araner

 

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Appendix to my earlier notes RE:Untethered Operations...
The Mitchell Institute published an interesting hypothetical circa 2026 involving the use of expeditionary airfields titled Fifth Generation Air Combat: Maintaining the Joint Force Advantage

An excerpt-
quote:

During the initial days of the conflict, F-35s
occasionally return to their bases—only to discover
several are heavily damaged from enemy missile
attacks. Executing contingency plans, they divert
to a nearby civilian airfield and use pilot swapout
procedures to reposition aircraft to another
F-35 operating location, allowing these assets to
continue fighting despite heavy airfield attacks.
In one instance, a USAF F-35 is forced to recover
at an Australian F-35 airbase after an inflight
malfunction makes it impossible to return to its
original deployment location. Royal Australian
Air Force (RAAF) maintenance technicians are
able to quickly repair, rearm, and refuel the USAF
F-35 in a manner similar to US maintenance and
regeneration practices. The F-35 in question rejoins
combat operations the next day

(in reply to Araner)
Post #: 41
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 10/26/2016 11:48:37 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Araner


quote:

interesting..... but very complicated....


My thoughts exactly... I think I tried to set up a crude "Rapid Raptor" deployment by adding a flight of F-22s and a single C-17 to a one-way ferry mission and then manually arming the F-22s after a certain period of time had elapsed since the C-17 landed. Modelling true "Untethered Ops" as currently envisioned would be much more complex. You would have to change the home base, weapons loadout, mission plan etc... for entire squadrons as an event condition that would need to be triggered after a C-17/KC-130/MV-22 lands at a small airfield and a period of time has elapsed.
What makes the Untethered Ops concept such a potential game-changer however, is not so much in the platforms or weaponry involved but rather in the novel use of logistics as a force multiplier. So just as the wars of the past 20 years have blurred the boundaries between tactical, operational and strategic warfare, the wars of the next 20 years may blur the distinction between logistics and tactics. Such an approach would certainly fit the current "Third Offset" line of thinking as logistics have traditionally been an area where the US Military has excelled.
In terms of game mechanics, this may mean more fine-grained control over magazines and vessel/aircraft loadouts. Especially if it allows for transferable payloads, which as I mentioned previously would also open up more possibilities for amphibious scenarios. After all, when it comes down to it, amphibious ops are really about how much stuff/people you can drop off without the enemy disrupting it. Without such capabilities, all those hundreds, if not thousands, of support ships, landing craft, cargo planes etc... in the database serve little purpose more than to provide something for the opposing side to shoot at.


Do you like reading what you write?

Moving stuff is coming soon.

Mike



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Post #: 42
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 11/1/2016 7:45:37 PM   
Araner

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 10/27/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikkey

Araner, you can upload only your scenario *.scen file from Scenarios folder.


I've tried this method too with no such luck.

(in reply to mikkey)
Post #: 43
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 11/1/2016 8:14:32 PM   
Araner

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 10/27/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Do you like reading what you write?

Moving stuff is coming soon.

Mike




Is that a comment on grammar?
Great news about moving stuff in any case! I realize this can't exactly be easy to program, so its good to see the effort is being made.

On a related note... My current WIP scenario is attempting to simulate a campaign wherein US-led forces are attempting to locate and destroy mobile SSM launchers across central mainland China under presumed conditions of air superiority. As the alleged locations of UGF storage facilities and launch pads operated by the PLA Rocket Forces are relatively well documented, I'm trying to simulate actual conditions as closely as possible. This would presumably require hosting land-based units like SSM batteries inside stationary assets like underground ammo bunkers and UGFs with the former having the ability to independently sortie along a fixed route (e.g road or rail)to a designated launch position. After launching their missiles, the empty TELs would then need to either return to their base of origin or move by road to a specified ammo depot where they could be reloaded after sufficient time has passed.
All in all the process would be similar enough to that of an aircraft launching from a home base, only the movement on land would need to be much more limited by terrain features.

Would any of this be possible to program using special actions and/or LUA scripting at present? Or would the game not support such actions in its current iteration?

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 44
RE: Modelling future A2/AD offset strategies. - 11/1/2016 10:47:02 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Araner


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Do you like reading what you write?

Moving stuff is coming soon.

Mike



Is that a comment on grammar?
Great news about moving stuff in any case! I realize this can't exactly be easy to program, so its good to see the effort is being made.

On a related note... My current WIP scenario is attempting to simulate a campaign wherein US-led forces are attempting to locate and destroy mobile SSM launchers across central mainland China under presumed conditions of air superiority. As the alleged locations of UGF storage facilities and launch pads operated by the PLA Rocket Forces are relatively well documented, I'm trying to simulate actual conditions as closely as possible. This would presumably require hosting land-based units like SSM batteries inside stationary assets like underground ammo bunkers and UGFs with the former having the ability to independently sortie along a fixed route (e.g road or rail)to a designated launch position. After launching their missiles, the empty TELs would then need to either return to their base of origin or move by road to a specified ammo depot where they could be reloaded after sufficient time has passed.
All in all the process would be similar enough to that of an aircraft launching from a home base, only the movement on land would need to be much more limited by terrain features.

Would any of this be possible to program using special actions and/or LUA scripting at present? Or would the game not support such actions in its current iteration?


Its mostly tone. We are the folks that can actually add stuff you might need you know

Land units do currently change speeds due to elevations. We can't do terrain types yet (other than water/land) but will look at it when we expand to land operations.

Garages/hides are not in the game. This is first time we've seen a use case so might be some merit in looking at it.

Until then there are some creative solutions. You can add mounts/weapons records to units and Assign/Unassign missions is part of the event editor and lua.

We are working on Cargo which you will see hopefully in the next few releases. You might get a lua function to help with ammo too.

Thanks!

Mike





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