Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

There is no 'full two days' as a set requirement.
The time necessary for replenishment is a function of the size of the task force and the amount of replenishment.
Port, like task forces have 1000 OPs point to use per turn.

You also do BOT need an air HQ to replenish torpedoes for a TF. This is done by having either the necessary threshold level of port size or AEs and/or AKEs loaded with supplies at the port.
You are confusing air squadrons and TFs.

Land based air squadrons get torpedoes from air HQs.
Carrier based air squadrons get torpedoes from the carrier stockpile.
The carrier stockpile acts like an AIR HQ for carrier based squadrons.
The carrier stockpile is replenished from a port, not an AIR HQ.

There is no at seas replenishment of ammunition until 1945 when AEs become capable of this function.
At sea replacement of air frames can be accomplished by having replacement air squadrons in range of your carriers.
These come in on some of the CVEs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Also, the Japanese never get underway replenishment of ammunition. The Allies get it from AEs in January 1945.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Also, the Japanese never get underway replenishment of ammunition. The Allies get it from AEs in January 1945.

But nothing greater than five inch ammo. Heavier guns need to be resupplied from ports.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Also, the Japanese never get underway replenishment of ammunition. The Allies get it from AEs in January 1945.

But nothing greater than five inch ammo. Heavier guns need to be resupplied from ports.

This was patched to correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Also note that if you have Port Attack orders the torpedo line will be red. It will only be yellow if you have Naval Attack selected and your CV has enough torpedoes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Also note that if you have Port Attack orders the torpedo line will be red. It will only be yellow if you have Naval Attack selected and your CV has enough torpedoes.

So with a Port Attack only Bombs are used and it ain't possible to use Torpedoes against the Ships anchored in that Port ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

WRT 7.2.1.7, I personally never ever saw torpedoes in port attacks, although the manual mentions a small chance.

Except initial PH strike. When planning the attack Japanese extensively researched the harbour, depths, attack runs for Kates, and modified their torpedoes to not dive too deep in shallow water.

All other port attacks by TBs in my games are done either with standard bomb load, or with 800kg bombs if xp checks are made successfully, with all the huge to-hit bonuses against disbanded ships. No torps.

Edit: maybe I never tried, hm..

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Also note that if you have Port Attack orders the torpedo line will be red. It will only be yellow if you have Naval Attack selected and your CV has enough torpedoes.

So with a Port Attack only Bombs are used and it ain't possible to use Torpedoes against the Ships anchored in that Port ?

I did not say that. Please read section 7.2.1.7 of the manual.

quote:

Bombers attacking ports will attack any ships at anchor 50% of the time, however, TF’s docked
in port will not be attacked. These attacks use bombs with only a small percentage of torpedo
bombers using torpedoes (as it is assumed these ships may be in dry dock or protected by
torpedo nets). If there are less than 10 ships at port, the chance of bombers attacking ships
lessens with each number less than 10 (so, bombers would be more likely to attack ships if 9
were in port as opposed to 4)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Also, the Japanese never get underway replenishment of ammunition. The Allies get it from AEs in January 1945.

But nothing greater than five inch ammo. Heavier guns need to be resupplied from ports.

This was patched to correct.

I'm not convinced that the patch corrected the upper limit on 5". I think it simply corrected a logic error that was causing the replenishment loop to stop if it reached a device it couldn't replenish, instead of moving to the next device in the line and checking it (and so on down the line until Ops/Supplies were gone).

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Also note that if you have Port Attack orders the torpedo line will be red. It will only be yellow if you have Naval Attack selected and your CV has enough torpedoes.

So with a Port Attack only Bombs are used and it ain't possible to use Torpedoes against the Ships anchored in that Port ?

I did not say that. Please read section 7.2.1.7 of the manual.

I assume that the relevant part of that Section might be where it says :

quote:

Bombers attacking ports will attack any ships at anchor 50% of the time, however, TF’s docked
in port will not be attacked. These attacks use bombs with only a small percentage of torpedo
bombers using torpedoes (as it is assumed these ships may be in dry dock or protected by
torpedo nets). If there are less than 10 ships at port, the chance of bombers attacking ships
lessens with each number less than 10 (so, bombers would be more likely to attack ships if 9
were in port as opposed to 4)

The way I understand it, is that therefore, a Port Attack "if" only enemy's Task Forces are docked will result in no attack to Ships.
If there is Anchored Ships (not TFs) only 50% of those Attacks will result in an attack against those Ships and the likeliness of torpedoes being used will be very small and the smaller the number of Ships in Port below 10 the lesser the likeliness of an Attack against those Ships.

Bottom line is, to my understanding, that if one wanted to have those Ships in Port be sunk, Port Attack would be a very poor Combat choice as opposed to a Naval Attack.....

Or did I get it all wrong ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Also note that if you have Port Attack orders the torpedo line will be red. It will only be yellow if you have Naval Attack selected and your CV has enough torpedoes.

So with a Port Attack only Bombs are used and it ain't possible to use Torpedoes against the Ships anchored in that Port ?

I did not say that. Please read section 7.2.1.7 of the manual.

I assume that the relevant part of that Section might be where it says :

quote:

Bombers attacking ports will attack any ships at anchor 50% of the time, however, TF’s docked
in port will not be attacked. These attacks use bombs with only a small percentage of torpedo
bombers using torpedoes (as it is assumed these ships may be in dry dock or protected by
torpedo nets). If there are less than 10 ships at port, the chance of bombers attacking ships
lessens with each number less than 10 (so, bombers would be more likely to attack ships if 9
were in port as opposed to 4)

The way I understand it, is that therefore, a Port Attack "if" only enemy's Task Forces are docked will result in no attack to Ships.
If there is Anchored Ships (not TFs) only 50% of those Attacks will result in an attack against those Ships and the likeliness of torpedoes being used will be very small and the smaller the number of Ships in Port below 10 the lesser the likeliness of an Attack against those Ships.

Bottom line is, to my understanding, that if one wanted to have those Ships in Port be sunk, Port Attack would be a very poor Combat choice as opposed to a Naval Attack.....

Or did I get it all wrong ?

Docked ships are in a TF, therefore only Naval Attack can go after them, not Port Attack. But in port, torpedoes may not work on Naval Attack while bombs can be used. After the first turn IJN strikes, the model seems to be that ports are too shallow to drop torpedoes (even though CA Kumano was sunk by aerial torps while anchored in a port.
But a TF that is not docked is called "At Sea" so it can be attacked with torpedoes. The hex is 40 NM across so the port itself only occupies a portion of that and the TF is considered somewhere in the approaches.
Port Attack is for ships that are stood down or in the shipyard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

I am not sure whether I understand correctly that.

Does that mean that the very 1st Turn of December 7th, mainly the attack on Pearl Harbour is an "exception" to game mechanics ?

That is, on Dec 7th and specifically for the attack to Pearl Harbour a "Port Attack" order will mainly be handled with torpedoes on the Allies Ships docked there regardless of what the Manual says that Bombs would be used instead for that type of Attack ?

If so, then, there would be no point of selecting "Naval Attack" for the Japanese Torpedo Bombers attacking Pearl Harbour on Dec 7th as, because of the "exception" to game mechanics, they would still use mainly Torpedoes on that day even when the Order of Battle is for a "Port Attack".

Yet, for a second or third attack on the 8th or the 9th the Order of Battle should be changed to "Naval Attack" in order to mainly use Torpedoes "if" that exception is only valid for the very first turn of Dec 7th.

Did I get it right or wrong ?