RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/23/2016 6:41:58 PM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
I am going to need some good bomber killers in the near future I'm thinking.

Jack/George is about as good as you get for the IJ ... 4x20mm. You'll wish for something similar for the IJA fighter groups, but ....

Ki-100 is great antibomber, and easy to get early

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/23/2016 9:16:09 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
I am going to need some good bomber killers in the near future I'm thinking.

Jack/George is about as good as you get for the IJ ... 4x20mm. You'll wish for something similar for the IJA fighter groups, but ....

Ki-100 is great antibomber, and easy to get early

Agreed. He didn't set up his RnD to do that though ... he spread it out on a great number of models. To get Tony 100 early, you need to dedicate a fair number to it.

At least with the first Jack, he gets something with DUR and 2x20mm ... better than Oscar or Zero....

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/28/2016 1:59:36 AM

el lobo

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PRODUCTION - UNIT QUESTION Feb 15, 1943 Turn 436

The J2M2 Jack starts production today. I should have the first unit in the skies over Burma before the end of the month.

I have three locations R&Ding the Ki-100 Tony, not enough I know. It is due 7/44 as of now.

I got two good looking CD units last turn. One is going to Port Blair. Any suggestions on favorite locations for the other?

Thanks.

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/29/2016 1:30:05 AM

PaxMondo

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Only use them where you intend to fight ... you don't get many and they are hard/costly to rebuild.

So, Port Blair can be a good place if your opponent obliges. You need to get him to come at it while you still hold Southern Burma so that your KB can be CAP'd by LBA allowing your KB to send full strikes .... I've definitely seen allied players do this, but since he seems to have quite a large group assisting him I wouldn't count on him being someone who will oblige you thus ...

I suspect you will have to plan such an ambush at a far more unlikely, yet desirable, location. Good Luck!

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 11/29/2016 2:54:38 AM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/4/2016 12:56:07 PM

el lobo

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Thanks Pax

BURMA Feb 21, 1943 Turn 442

Things are starting to heat-up in Burma so it is time to get this AAR going.

Rio informs me that, "Gonna be some blood shed in Burma soon." I can not figure-out exactly where he means. Maybe somebody can tell from the map below. Every time I get a plan, he starts moving units. I accuse him of trying to make me fight the Keystone Allied Army.

Points of interest. The hex west of Paoshan. Rio has been very effective in tying-up four Divisions there. Every time I boot someone out he immediately moves in some more units. I do not have a good combat arms mix there but there is no way to correct that in the near future.

Lashio. Rio seems fixated on that base. He has bombarded me almost every day since he arrived and I have been on the receiving end of three escorted 4E raids. Interesting in that I have not received one casualty there. I have 500 AV behind five forts.

I have just moved an ID, two arty units and a tank unit into the hex east of Mandalay. I hope to boot that unit there and move on to Lashio. It would be nice to get the arty units to the hex west of Paoshan.

Hex 55,48. He keeps moving units out of there and his AV is dropping. I have an ID moving in from Ramree. Once that unit arrives, and if nothing else changes much, I will be able to move some units out of there. We will see if and to where when the time arrives.

I will post a map with more information on my units later.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 695

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/5/2016 1:50:55 AM

PaxMondo

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Burma:

Your biggest danger is not in the front, but behind you. Amphib assault at Tavoy or further south and he can beat you to Vinh. Then all of your units in SE Asia are in jeopardy ... units that you need in the HI defending.

The trick, and it really is tricky, it not to overstay your welcome in Burma. You can't afford to lose 2 - 4K AV there in trapped units. At some point you will want to defend somewhere between Vinh and Lang Son. BUT, you don't want to give up too early either as it opens a door into the DEI.

The strategy for the IJ is to pull back their defensive perimeter and NOT allow any* stranded units. As you pull back, your defensive perimeter gets stronger and stronger. Example, if you are fighting in the PI, you don't want any units west of you in the DEI. anything there when you lose the PI is lost ... get the units back into the defense before you lose them. Just like the GER panzers, the allied attack works not because it destroys all of the IJ units, but rather they can isolate and bypass more than 50%. Those are all units they killed for free, simply by manouver.

*Caveat: A tactic that can be effective is to hold a few places where you are able to harass the allied logistic line. You have to choose these volunteers carefully, and choose where to put them even more carefully.

Good luck! the REAL game is just starting ... everything to this point was simply you getting into position for your defense. Isn't that a strange game?

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/5/2016 1:52:10 AM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/5/2016 1:51:36 AM

PaxMondo

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dup

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/9/2016 12:05:35 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Feb 25, 1943 Turn 446

What Pax said.

I can see the temptation to over-stay your welcome in Burma. As it stands now, I have enough there to keep him busy for awhile, it seems, "until the cows come home."

But in this game, the cows do come home, and I don't want them wandering through my back yard unbeknownst. So for the next couple of months I will make a concentrated effort to review AARs looking at the Burma withdraw strategies.

The area is rather dynamic right now so I will try to fill in more below as we go on.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 698

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/10/2016 4:37:54 PM

PaxMondo

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Truthfully, your current position would scare me. You already have allied units behind you. While it is stable now for you, you are already in '43 and the momentum will continue to shift. Allied units get squad upgrades that you don't, so even though the units are the same, they become 25% stronger. This is how the IJ gets whupped in Burma ... the player gets used to the force levels of '42 and the player forgets that the allied forces get stronger while yours stay the same.

Beware.

PS: I would be looking at having a lot of air transport available in the Vinh area pretty soon. You will want to at least get fragments out, and better to get everything below LC 12 out, but generally the IJ don't have time for that

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/10/2016 4:48:20 PM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/10/2016 6:58:04 PM

GetAssista

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El Lobo, don't just sit there in the clear waiting for the Allies building forts in the 3x terrain behind you and bringing more troops to reinforce the pincers. Pound him in those hexes farther away from India/coast, he is bound to have supply problems there. In Burma 3x terrain hexes are more important points of defence compared to bases.
Also, get somebody on that road east of Chiang Mai, it looks dangerously exposed and leads directly into Thailand

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 4:42:15 AM

adarbrauner

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At my advice, 1st priotrity should be to keep China isolated AT ALL COSTS by every effort. You seem being too close to knock down the Chinese in Chunking. If and when this accomplished, life for the allies shall become extremely unconfortable, Opponent knows that therefore he may be under very strong psycological pressure.

The mountain passes on Burma road greatly advantage you on this, even if you may choose to start a retreat from Burma but keeping the iron ring on the mountains (around Paoshan-Tsuyung).

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/11/2016 4:44:32 AM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 6:09:36 AM

el lobo

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Thanks guys, I hear you. I will start shifting units east and get into a more defensive, retreat mode.

Welcome adarbrauner. I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMo

... below LC 12 ...

Pax, not sure what you mean by this.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 7:29:53 AM

adarbrauner

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Pax may have been saying that your units on the Prome-Mandalay line seem being on the verge of being sorrounded...

1)Pax has great great experience
2) I can't so much understand from the picture the force you have on that line and their rate versus Allies, but Pax may be suggesting you a break out of those close-to-be- sorrounded forces as long as you have the strenght to do that.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 7:50:52 AM

adarbrauner

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The four hexes from the river to south east of Tang yi, latitude 49 in a line...

and the beach head over the river west of Toungoo, from where he can project a little further southeast...
are you at the preludes of a Stalingrad?

Do you have a solid reserve force with which to push him back over the river, and than break through through the road toward Meiktyla to disengage your army there in case of such an encirclement?

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/11/2016 7:52:11 AM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 11:56:25 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Thanks guys, I hear you. I will start shifting units east and get into a more defensive, retreat mode.

Welcome adarbrauner. I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMo

... below LC 12 ...

Pax, not sure what you mean by this.

Max unit size that can be air transported. Anything heavier stays behind (heavy guns, armor, etc).

Not saying you bail, that is your decision, but the current status is untenable in my opinion. A decision on your part is required, move out or move in.

Not sure where you are with CK. If that falls within the next few weeks, then a force redeployment to Burma is a possibility. You should have +5000 AV to move. With some manouver on your part, his Burma army becomes what yours looks like right now: VP's to harvest. And if there are Aussie/Brit div's there, it means you can take both countries out of the war for a year or two as their replacement rates are so low.

This is one of those points that happens several times during a game; do you or don't you. You have to assess the risk/reward ratio. If CK holds out another couple of months and you don't move, I think he has you. Which means a draw at worst for the allies. Taking your Burma armies about equals his losing CK ...

Movement on your part is needed. Which way? Us punters in the gallery just watch.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 12:04:47 PM

adarbrauner

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I don't know if he as few weeks before being encircled, but he could make a stand even if encircled. I don't like it, let be encircled and wait for salvation.

But maybe El Lobo has good reserves to break the encirclemnts, causing good losses to the British on the way, as I suggested above.

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/11/2016 12:05:34 PM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 12:19:54 PM

el lobo

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Thanks again for the further explanations.

I may not be as bad-off as it looks but I can definitely see the reasons for your concerns and they are a good wake-up call. I have started to rally the troops and will keep up-dating the maps.

LC = Load Cost. The dime dropped.

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 9:54:23 PM

PaxMondo

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Your opponent has about twice the posts, and he has a large group of advisors, a couple of which are quite good players. You definitely may not be that bad off, but in '43 things can change quickly. How is your situation at CK?

OTOH your apparent weak position can also be turned into a trap if you are wily enough. Mid-43 is IJN's best chance to catch the allies. They get a couple of Essex and a bunch of CVL/CVE's and can get overly bold. The KB backed up by good LBA can really hurt them yet. By '44 you can't really hurt the deathstar except by using kami's and even then it is tough to do.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/11/2016 10:17:06 PM

adarbrauner

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There in Burma, if you have strong reserves to punch him and break the encirclements, Southwest of Taung Gyi, you can hurt him a lot.

A wondeful land campaign anyhow is unfolding. amazing.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/12/2016 3:01:19 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

LC = Load Cost. The dime dropped.

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 10:56:55 AM

el lobo

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PRODUCTION Mar 1, 1943 Turn 450

Accelerated this month:

N1K1-J George 5/43

Tony 100-I 7/44
Oscar -43-IV 7/43
D4Y3 Judy 9/43
B6N2 Jill 7/43

The first group of Jacks are in the air over Shwebo today.

There will be no more additions to TRACOM. I am going with MrKane on this.

Attachment (1)

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El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 2:04:14 PM

Andav

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Like so many things, I agree with Pax here. Your Burma position is very scary to me as well. They biggest challenge is all the open terrain which makes it very easy for Allied 2Es and 4Es to really rough up your units. He is already behind you in many cases.

How much armor has he committed in this theater? It is really difficult for the regular IJA to deal with once it starts to upgrade to better tanks. They just lack AT assets.

I would work to flip some hex sides. The one east of Prome with 10 units at 500 assault specifically. I would worry about him cutting your rail lines and further infiltrating.

I am surprised he has not moved units onto the road south of Taung Gyi. It seems like a great opportunity to deny you use of that road in jungle and force you to move in the open if you want to retreat. You really do not want to have to move in the open.

I would leave a decent garrison at Remeree Island (or how ever it is spelled). Supply might be an issue for the Allies having to push everything from Akyab or overland from India. I know many Allied players say they can feed their Burma army and push supplied to China from Remeree.

And my personal nightmare is of course Pegu. witpqs landed there in force and basically cut off the entire army in Burma. I am not sure your opponent could do this but make sure you have at least some garrison there.

Wa

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 2:05:18 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Mar 1, 1943 Turn 450

The plan so far. adar should like this.

The three IDs, one Arm Div, and some Art in hex 55,48 east of Ramree Island will move on the road toward Prome. They will join an ID, an Arm Rgt, and a HQ unit in the hex to their south-west. They will take a turn or two to engage the enemy units there.

After their engagement they will move on to Prome from where they will Strat to Toungoo.

They will join three IDs and move up the road to Meiktila hopefully clearing the road as they go. They will end-up at Taung Gyi where they will move west and north and engage the units on the road.

If all this is successful, we will see what we need to do to secure the eastern front.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 2:40:27 PM

el lobo

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Thanks Andav.

I mentioned it earlier but I think Rio is going to try the same thing witpqs did to you. As it stands right now, that is probably the worst case scenario for me. I have one more ID that will be on the high seas in a couple of weeks and I am considering putting them at Pegu. We will see.

I am leaving two IDs in hex 55,48 to continue to hold his units there and if necessary they can move into Ramree. That whole bunch I had there did their job of stopping his southern advance. He was surprised to bump into them.

----------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad to have everyone jumping in here.

Should we consider moving out of some of the bases into the jungle or wait a bit?

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 7:35:20 PM

adarbrauner

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finally...

Good evening el Lobo. It is so exciting following this campaign.

according to your plan, it is 11 days until your shock salvage divisions reach Toungoo, and then only they'll commence battling.

I don't know what you have south eastern of Prome, but if it is strong he won't frontal engage them, he'll rather concentrate resources to try to close the deal northern more.

That unit southeast of Taung yi (chindit?): he's assumingly trying to move it West on the road. When did he start moving? how much time shall it take to him? At least 8-10 days since moving given the terrain. Is the only free road remainig for the disengagement.

As soon as he'll read your moves, i.e. when you land at Taungoo, he'll presumibely start push and consolidate northern of Taungoo.

So start squeezing out throught that road, start evacuate.

Go out from Magwe and Mandalay. Can you evacuate Shwebo?

Try to halt that Chindit South of Taungyi, I don't now how.

Basically, as you push and press from Taungoo northern according to your plan, evacuate through the other parallel road.

Pax suggested air evacuation, if you can. Start from shwebo, but NOW, if you can.

"Should we consider moving out of some of the bases into the jungle or wait a bit? "

Of course we are retreating in the jungle! Let him die there! We can consider Rangoon as lost, but that's fine, you'll keep such a strong strong line in defense, while continue working in China.

We can frustrate him in his plan so much!

Any provision regarding countering a possible flanking amphibius landing (which may not happen if he does not posses enough assets)? Do you have some conspicous Nav bombers in the rear? Maybe mines? maybe some small crafts, submarines.

We need to hold the Rangoon-Pegu salient just for the time needed to retreat and consolidate a little eastern in the Jungle - and dead block him in the mountain passage to China, Kunming region!

P.s., as some one else said, he maybe be under pressure over his supply and run short soon or later soon.

another point, he's not going to exploit the "ocre" free road east of Taung giy, don't worry. Onlyi f he has paradrops..

But you HAVE to go up there later to take and hold the terrain.

any new or notice or piece of intelligence from Central Pacific?

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/13/2016 8:34:24 PM >

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 10:43:57 PM

el lobo

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A WORD ABOUT CEYLON Mar 2, 1943 Turn 451

I was afraid to talk about this earlier as the evacuation was going so smooth I did not want to jinx it.

All but one unit is either on the high seas en-route to, or in, Burma, except for the Air Flotilla which is resting at another port awaiting assignment.

Once I decided to evacuate, I split the ground units into two groups and moved about two-fifths to Koggala and the rest to Trincomalee. I left one-third of an ID at Colombo as a rear guard and everyone else moved along with no problems. About two weeks ago Rio made his second (major) DA of the game and kicked my rear guard out of Colombo and started perusing them. I got the last units out of Koggala a week ago. Today, as the last unit is loading, Rio moved into Trincomalee.

Over the last few months I had a lot of units move from the HI to Rangoon so I had a lot of ships available. For the most part, the convoys and units matched-up well. On only two occasions did a convoy have to wait for a unit or vice versa. The convoys would be directed to port one turn, directed to load troops the next, and usually by the next turn they would be at sea, even if the convoy was unable to dock. The one exception was when I did not have enough ships to cover the load cost and it took an extra day to load.

Out of twenty-some-odd convoys I lost only one ship to a sub, so far.

A total of three IDs, two Regmts, a garrison unit, three Eng units, an Art unit, and an Air Flotilla. As a note, I had airlifted parts of each unit off of Ceylon early on.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to adarbrauner)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/13/2016 10:58:30 PM

el lobo

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CHINA Mar 2, 1943 Turn 451

As far a Burma goes, we are not going to get help from China in the near future.

However, we are "progressing." My units have finished moving into Chengtu, the AV is where I want it, and I have been waiting for a good supply day, which happened today. We will DA tomorrow.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 717

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/14/2016 1:14:07 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

There are cases where wars are won also by evacuations. Ceylon was one . Very very good sign. It had or should be burning for Rio Bravo more than a Dunkirk. Very bad performance by him (don't tell him), under his very nose.

to be repeated.

Regarding China, could it be possible please to se also what's happening western-left of this screen?

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 718

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/14/2016 12:07:24 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

El Lobo, don't just sit there in the clear waiting for the Allies building forts in the 3x terrain behind you and bringing more troops to reinforce the pincers. Pound him in those hexes farther away from India/coast,

I will switch my bombers over as soon as I finish bombing his units in the two clear hexes south of Megwe.

quote:

Also, get somebody on that road east of Chiang Mai, it looks dangerously exposed and leads directly into Thailand

I have a RTA Div on the road in the hex west of CM. Should they be on the other side?

Thanks

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 719

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 12/14/2016 12:13:12 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Regarding China, could it be possible please to se also what's happening western-left of this screen?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 720

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