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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone)

 
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RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/11/2016 4:29:44 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		The Northwest Front has too many units sitting idle. Under FoW rules, all your opponent can see in air recon where a unit is in non-clear terrain and 3-4 hexes distant from a friendly unit is that something is there. You can pull out a full strength division and replace it with a cheap, low strength unit of any kind and he has no way of knowing that the defense has been weakened.

As more of your your IL-2s come on line, try to find a place where you can hit his units in the open but where they are not benefiting from a lot of AA and fighter support. That will help gain valuable exp while holding down losses. Don't be concerned about putting 5-6 divisions of bombers on one front.

Your fledgling tank corps have to work in conjunction with the cavalry corps. The tank corps won't build up a strong CV for quite a while so you need help from the cavalry. Try to target individual and unfortified rifle divisions that he has to put on the flank of his panzerball to nip at his heels as it were. Once you get a win, pull back behind infantry support. Make sure you have the necessary MPs before you do this. You have to farm wins for the cav corps as often as possible as they have no guards cap and it's worth extra morale.

His panzers have impressive CVs but both players live and die by the infantry division. The Axis doesn't have enough mobile divisions to cover the entire map. The infantry divisions you get wins against have the potential to lower morale and experience. It isn't obvious now but after a season of campaigning, you should notice some weakness developing on the other side.

Immediately south of the Oka, you need to fight for all that non-clear terrain, especially west southwest of Arzamas. Maintaining a bridgehead there is absolutely vital, otherwise falling back behind the river merely serves to secure his flank.

As some of your rifle armies become depleted, you can always move the few remaining units out and completely replace them with tank corps if needed. Tank Armies probably aren't something you can afford for some time. Keeping your tank corps under some MD is not good long term.

If Pelton's panzerball goes east, be more aggressive in attacking from the Stalingrad/Don region. It may force him to draw off some of his forces. If he reinforces the south, fall back there. I hope you took advantage of winter and got all the industry out of the Caucasus and Stalingrad. Finally be careful about falling back on Gorky. There is a lot of industry there.








(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 241
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/11/2016 8:25:49 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for the tips.
All my industries are out of the caucasus. But there are tons of industry in gorky currently.

Turn 55 02 July 1942 :

My troops are beginning to be good at running, still not always fast enough yet !!! I hope he will begin to lack fuel.



Something interesting here. It looks like some panzer splitted from the group to go south. Maybe be he think i'am completely down.
But i'am too noob to know so i'am sure i'am winning.



In the south, he tried an encerclement but do not have enough troops yet.



So i do not let him to it !!!



Oups, i already done the new turn and just realized i forgot to air supply voronez. lol. Sorry, your supply was lost in the bureaucracy !!!
Maybe next week. It was beginning to be far away from airfield whatsoever.

Divisions are returning !!!

But after 2 turns of refit, they are far from being able to fight.



3 points for digging ? Really ? But take this ****ing shovel and dig you lazy peasant !!!

Finally, gorky. It is one weakness of my plan. If german reach it and i have to fight around it, i will have to evacuate some factories.

Gorky have tons of very good factory. I'am not very fond of having to cut half my T-34 production for 20 turns.



(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 242
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/13/2016 4:35:26 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 56 : 09 July 1942

The ennemy go on to the north and Gorky while my troops retreat this time in quite good order.



It is confirmed that a good part of the panzer ball split and go south !!! Which is a good news.



So i have to fall back south as renforcement is coming. Stalingrad is probably doomed soon.




(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 243
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/16/2016 9:13:48 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 57 : 16 July 1942

Really interesting turn. Nothing serious really happens, but i have now a clear picture of Pelton plan. And it is all about railroad.

First point, my chicken runaway strategy is working, as german army have to loose time to wait for logistic, and also seems to be a little cautious.

Last turn, i engaged some rifle corps on the side of german advance and push back a few german infantry units. It was probably a warning for the ennemy.

It is a complete shame that i tried to fight in spring 1942, loosing one hundred experienced divisions trying to stop ennemy advance immediatly.

If i had engaged my chicken strategy as soon as possible, with 100 more divisions my position now would have been quite good. Maybe be even enough to win.

So, let's look at the ACTUAL terrible position, instead of the dream one.



Looking at the map, there are only 2 railroad lines that are going to moscow.

My opponent is doing 3 things here :

1- German mobile units are going to East point and Gorky. The objective is the south line. This trust is currently ressuplying (And lost a lot of units that went south).
Good news. Still gorky is vulnerable and need renforcements that i do not have.

2- Center position : In Center position, a good pack of german infantry is trying to push me accross the large river. Once i'am on the moscow side of the large river, the german army can then let a small and second rate unit to keep the front, and it allow good german infantry division to carry on the offensive further.
Seconde rate german division cannot hold front on plain, but can with the help of the large river.
Currently i'am engaging 2 elites armies here to contest the ennemy as long as i can !!!
Pelton think he need infantry to attack gorky. I assume is right.

3- Last the north front. I was expecting this area to be quiet, as finland troops cannot help here as they are politicaly forbidden to move further east. But my ennemy put here a lots of good infantry, and i understand he want to cut the north railroad line here.
I will have to send renforcement to not allow him to do that, if i find some. Probably at least a elite army.
I'am lucky he have only a calvary division as mobile troops.

And now the south !!! It still only a railroad matter !!!



Ennemy is really close to the only railroad link to caucasus. Once the railroad is cut, i will have 150 good divisions not isolated, because Baku is a source a supply, but there will be lost in the area with no mobility, no train, and strategicaly not relevant. I have to avoid that.

The ennemy also breached the defense south.

Stavka strategic order :

According to the moscow first strategy, i cannot allow so many troops to be cut from the main battle.

- Trans Caucasus front (a good front with good troops), but trans caucasus front only will retreat to the moutain and defend here. There is no industry left in the caucasus, and i'am confident i can defend baku with this front.
- The 3 armies defending stalingrad + the elite armies here will go north and threaten the ennemy trust to gorky from south.
- **** stalingrad, did not need it anyway.

Let's do this !!!!


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 244
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/17/2016 8:26:44 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 58 : 23 July 1942

Business as usual.
German troops seems to have problem to find enough infantry to man all the front now, so troops are concentrated in some points, but others are quite clear.



In the north, the evil try to outmanoeuvre my line. But my renforcements are coming as i identified the importance of this front.
South of moscow, german is massing for an offensive in front of a river. It seems to avoid pushing to gorky for the moment. Probably for logistical reasons.

Now deep south :

Stalingrad is doomed as expected.



I do not loose troops now so it is a good news.

Still i cannot foresight the strategic importance of my current movements. So maybe it will save me or doom me. We will see.



(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 245
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/18/2016 5:46:00 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 59 : 30 July 1942

running away south : In my opinion, i should have send some troops to the railroad east. The railroad to caucasus is cut.
But i still can move by train in the caucasus as baku is a supply and railroad source.



Stalingrad is encercled. I let some troops here in the hope to slow the building of railroad though stalingrad.
I'am planning to use some transport planes to ressuply the garnison here.



In the north, the invader notice my builtup north, and he may have given hope to pierce here. We will see.

Ennemy troops restart movement to gorky. But slow. I have good troops here.

My bad troops are white under stavka command. Colored troops are at least regular and trained.




(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 246
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/19/2016 7:01:27 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Have some questions if someone can help :

I have 600K men and 10K guns in support units and i'am considering cutting them to minimum to get troops to fill all my new empty divisions.

But i have some fear :
- If i do it, do i loose most of the experience of the support units ? (My main concern).
- a 20% support unit can still be committed to battle ? If so, it will shatter very easily ?




(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 247
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/19/2016 6:52:13 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		What appear to be BAK HQs under Long Range Air Command north of Gorky should have been disbanded by turn 2 for manpower. In fact you should look into scrapping the entire LRAC now for manpower. Bring whatever additional airbases you need from inactive fronts. There only appear to be a few enemy recon missions going on along the Northwest and Kalinin Fronts along with the Moscow MD.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 248
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/19/2016 10:44:57 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Have some questions if someone can help :

I have 600K men and 10K guns in support units and i'am considering cutting them to minimum to get troops to fill all my new empty divisions.

But i have some fear :
- If i do it, do i loose most of the experience of the support units ? (My main concern).
- a 20% support unit can still be committed to battle ? If so, it will shatter very easily ?


1) I think so. Experience of stuff sent back to the pools does not influence the average experience of the replacements sent from the pool to the units as far as I know.
2) No idea.

1 again) A way to work around this is: Set your support TOE so, that you are below the current one, but the current TOE must not exceed 125% of the setting. On this way, your support units will hardly get replacements, but also do not transfer their experienced elements back to the pool. The TOE will be reduced over time due to attrition and fighting.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 249
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/20/2016 9:30:08 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks i will cut renforcement for support units.

One thing i note that may interest some :

The antitank brigade is working. When fighting an antitank brigade, an ennemy panzer division looses around 10 tanks and same amount of damaged.
It is only 1/2 when fighting only a rifle division.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 250
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/20/2016 2:59:35 PM   
Pionpion

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 10/23/2016
Status: offline 		AAR de ouf

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 251
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/20/2016 4:15:42 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Great AAR with good tense!

Russian situation is almost desesperate. You still have 8/9 turns to fight before mud.

If I could, I would send you half a dozen of guard rifle corps from my game against Bobo

(in reply to Pionpion)
Post #: 252
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/20/2016 5:00:14 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
If I could, I would send you half a dozen of guard rifle corps from my game against Bobo


Interdimensional international communist alliance !!!

Turn 60 : 06 August 1942

Full ennemy offensive south !!!



In the north, the ennemy give up trying to cut my railroad line from north !!! Great victory for the soviet army.

But east of moscow, the battle for Gorki is close to begin.



(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 253
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/21/2016 3:41:00 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck





You are real lucky Pelton didn't rail a PZ Corp or two above Kalinin where the Kalinin Front is and tried to envelope that whole mass of units you have in the Moscow salient by attacking both sides. Heck, I would have done it instead of going south. That would have made my pee pee hard if it was successful :) That attack would unhinge you or you would give the Stalin order 227. Definitely would have made for an interesting time.


_____________________________


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 254
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/21/2016 5:19:00 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I know yaroslav is vulnerable, despite the large river here. I'am performing tons of air reconnaissance each turn in the area.

But i do not have reserve to put here to renforce the front.

Turn 61 : 13 August 1942

My army is quite tired, most of my good army are committed in essentiel place and i'am lacking reserve. All my troops in white have no fighting values at all, even if they can be frightening to see from air reconnaissance.

In the north, the ennemy advance north east.



In the south, there are too many ennemy units to avoid encerclement.



< Message edited by Stelteck -- 12/21/2016 5:31:31 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 255
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/21/2016 5:29:34 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

But i do not have reserve to put here to renforce the front.



My point exactly :) You have been lucky in my honest opinion. Pelton could have bagged that whole salient.

_____________________________


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 256
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/22/2016 5:08:40 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 62 : 20 August 1942

Offensive go on in the south. I forgot to fortify astrakhan some time ago so the town is not defensible. And i really need to defend the far east port on the caspian see because for no reason i transfered tons of industries here in 1941. lol. Thought it was safe. Lol.
So the place will be defended by the coastal army, which is quite good.



In the north, it looks like the ennemy is waiting... I do not know why. Something bad i'am sûre.
I'am loosing the large infantry battle around the red dots and i will soon be pushed over the large river. The town here just fell despite massive defenses.









< Message edited by Stelteck -- 12/22/2016 5:16:23 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 257
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/22/2016 5:25:35 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Looses at this day !!!


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 258
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/23/2016 7:15:19 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 63 : 27 August 1942





I'am wondering if the map is large enough for the campaign. I may need to retreat more east



(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 259
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/24/2016 7:44:42 AM   
MrBlizzard


Posts: 636
Joined: 4/16/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline
Yeah Pelton has just arrived 160km west of Ural river
Does he make many airdrops to supply his panzer spearheads?


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Blizzard

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 260
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/24/2016 7:48:52 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard


Yeah Pelton has just arrived 160km west of Ural river
Does he make many airdrops to supply his panzer spearheads?



A little but nothing major. In fact the railroad line is quite close, around 20 hex max.


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 12/24/2016 7:49:54 AM >

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 261
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/24/2016 12:37:22 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Turn 64 : 03 september 1942

Yes september !!!
I still have moscow, but my decision to defend moscow at all cost produced weird results. Nevermind, staline told me to defend moscow at all cost.

The infantry battle for the southern bank of the large river south of moscow is going on. Some of my best troops are here and are slowly pushed back. But i gain some times here.

Luftwaffe is heavily concentrated here and crush my air force. I try to concentrate too but it do not work very well. I'am unable to put so many planes in the air at the same times, even if they are available in the area.

And because of patch V1.09.01, i'am unable to counter attack its airfield with some efficiency during my turn to try to do something.



In the east, the mobile panzers crossed the large river in a weird area. Heavy woods. It looks like the ardenne in France, i'am not sûre he can do something with it, the ground is too bad.



I have only one front to defend the east side of the map. It looks weird.



Battle for south will soon reach a statlemate. I do not think ennemy troops are good enough to cross the caucasus here.




(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 262
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 12:57:11 AM   
GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 12/25/2016
Status: offline 		Dam is it that easy to get to the Urals as Germany?

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 263
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 9:15:28 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

Dam is it that easy to get to the Urals as Germany?


Do you think germany need a nerf ?

In fact it looks like my opponent Pelton is only attacking weak part of the front, while i only defend victory points objectives (Remaining one now are Moscow and Baku, and they are all well defended).

From my point of view, Pelton is taking useless land while i successfully keep the important objectives.
And i do not have the ressources to defend everywhere at all, concentrating on critical objective make sense to me.

But probably from Pelton point of view, he is conquering large portions of lands and is very happy with the results of this campaign.

So we are both winning Wonderfull game.

It will be interesting at the end of the game to compare notes, when finally Pelton will be allowed to look at this AAR. (Currently, he cannot it would be cheating).


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 12/25/2016 10:23:45 AM >
Post #: 264
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 4:06:23 PM   
BrianG

 

Posts: 4653
Joined: 3/6/2012
Status: offline 		great action

Continue nerves of steel!

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 265
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 4:44:50 PM   
GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 12/25/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

Dam is it that easy to get to the Urals as Germany?


Do you think germany need a nerf ?

In fact it looks like my opponent Pelton is only attacking weak part of the front, while i only defend victory points objectives (Remaining one now are Moscow and Baku, and they are all well defended).

From my point of view, Pelton is taking useless land while i successfully keep the important objectives.
And i do not have the ressources to defend everywhere at all, concentrating on critical objective make sense to me.

But probably from Pelton point of view, he is conquering large portions of lands and is very happy with the results of this campaign.

So we are both winning Wonderfull game.

It will be interesting at the end of the game to compare notes, when finally Pelton will be allowed to look at this AAR. (Currently, he cannot it would be cheating).



I am a complete newbie at this point but my life is numbers.
I have been reading allot the last few weeks and see Pelton doing the same tactics in his Bitter End AAR's.

So it looks like his strategy is:

1. Capture X # of VP locations and hold them as long as possible.
2. Capture as many manpower centers as possible. Going by rules many of your manpower points from 41 moved east and he is over running some again + plus try to force you to move industry for a 2nd time.
3. This will build up a huge VP buffer. The useless land is a huge buffer zone in the south from you getting close to the southern VP locations.
4. Looking at other AAR’s his Oka north lines will be a wall of steel until you can roll up the southern front.

If you look at his AAR vs Pit on turn 140 GE=40000 and USSR=5700 VP’s and the front lines,
Pit is in a huge hole.

The numbers:

Turn 140 VP: Germany: 39960 USSR: 5675 Max turns 224


End Game 11760
Max pts per turn: (395) x ?? =
Men 1000 = 100 4,576,000 = 4576
Guns 100 = 100 47,000 = 470
AFV 10 =100 13,800 = 1380
Planes 5 =100 3,400 = 720

Total 11760 + 7146= 18906+5675= 24580


Germany: 39960
Russia: 24580

German lead of 15380 / 395 = 39 turns

There are 84 turns left and he is still getting location VP’s of 147 per turn (same as your game) plus normal from combat.
Looking at the VP combat model the best the USSR can hope for during normal combat from 43-45 going by several of Pelton’s AARs is a
plus 15-25 VP’s per turn. Pit would need to hold all the Russian VP locations for 39 turns plus kill every single one of Pelton’s
units without losing any units of his own. So by turn 190 he would have to capture Berlin probably sooner as USSR will be losing
men. Also it looks like it be a while before Pit captures all of Germany’s VP locations. Reading Pelton’s late war AAR’s he can
withdraw 2 hexes per turn and still hold many of the VP locations into 45 vs Pit.

You can plug your #s into this and get an idea when you have to start retaking VP location and taking ones that add to your total.
A nerf? Looking at Razing the Reich II by Michael T, no as he easly won as USSR.



What is the VP totals so far in your game?

PS why are all of Pelton’s AAR’s locked?


< Message edited by GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel -- 12/25/2016 4:46:31 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 266
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 8:43:12 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel


PS why are all of Pelton’s AAR’s locked?



Presumably because of his permanent ban for persistent refusal to follow forum rules, though Hunter63 (who probably is Pelton) has been reporting periodically on P's behalf


< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/25/2016 8:46:07 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?
Post #: 267
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 8:48:00 PM   
sillyflower


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From: Back in Blighty
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

great action

Continue nerves of steel!


You have a disciple Brian (cue Monty Python music)

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to BrianG)
Post #: 268
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 9:18:16 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 941
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline 		BrianG, aka wonder of wonders, is the pinacle of human evolution, remotely possible exception of Stef.

I however, am a charter member of the Moronski Brigade. All I do is complain and lose all my games, give up, and quit. hehehe.

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 269
RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelto... - 12/25/2016 9:44:51 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel


PS why are all of Pelton’s AAR’s locked?



Presumably because of his permanent ban for persistent refusal to follow forum rules, though Hunter63 (who probably is Pelton) has been reporting periodically on P's behalf



Silly, are you sure this isnt "yet" another re-incarnation in and of itself from the user asking the question? The post before yours reads like it :-P

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