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RE: 18 - October 16, 1941 - The MUD Arrives

 
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RE: 18 - October 16, 1941 - The MUD Arrives - 1/5/2017 1:20:59 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		The initial German campaign season has ended!

All things considered, I can't give myself a grade higher than C. I kept too many troops in the south, which saved Stalino area, Sevestopol, Rostov and the like, but I gave up Moscow. I saved the following

85% of vehicle production
94% of heavy industry
100% of AFV
100% of air
95% of armaments

It is what it is. All eyes are now focused on the upcoming Moscow fight. The enemy is beginning to fortify the Moscow area.

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Post #: 121
RE: 18 - October 16, 1941 - The south - 1/5/2017 1:21:37 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		First the good news.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/5/2017 1:22:07 AM >

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Andy M

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RE: 18 - October 16, 1941 - Moscow - 1/5/2017 1:23:06 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		And here is Moscow. It will be 'the mother of all battles!'

NOTE - the w binded pics are off by 3 hexes horizontally...




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/5/2017 1:38:11 AM >

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Andy M

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RE: 18 - October 16, 1941 - Moscow - 1/5/2017 1:35:52 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		next priority - move up 150+ units to the mlr and organize armies for counteroffensive

The enemy has stated their intention to renew the offensive in the window between mud and blizzard.

< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/5/2017 1:39:17 AM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 124
RE: 18 - October 16, 1941 - The south - 1/6/2017 8:18:14 AM   
GabrielBora

 

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Joined: 10/14/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

First the good news.



The general direction in which your fronts retreat after Kiev battle is a bit strange . The Southern front is in a much beter position to defend HARKOV.
It does not start overloaded, it is not realy under any real presure until august 1941, so you can bring him up to strenght for the batle, using newly raised divisions . The terain south of DNEPROPETROVSK can be defended by KONEV north military district forces , as it upgrades to front TOE and his aircomand is unfrozen.
I see that you are trying to keep the historical front areas, but your SOUTHWESTERN front ends up overstreched and overloaded as result.

< Message edited by GabrielBora -- 1/6/2017 8:20:59 AM >

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Post #: 125
RE: Current Front COmmanders - 1/6/2017 8:46:39 AM   
GabrielBora

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 10/14/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

It's wasteful in APs to be promoting GL's to Front commands. Leave the good ones in your better and important armies until they at least make GP. With those extra APs you could have a lot more sapper regiments or more/upgraded air regiments.


My take as well, in my curent game I was fortunate enough to have VATUTIN replacing KUZNETOV automaticly, but until AP start to overflow, the front comanders are going to take the blame for the soviet early defeats .

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 126
RE: Current Front COmmanders - 1/6/2017 9:24:24 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		The more important leader is the army one.

I think based on some previous thread i read that for example a INIT 5 leader have 50% of success at army level (no taken into account various bonus/malus such as distance, HQ moved or not, etc...), 25% at front level and 12.5% at stavka level.

So putting the best at high level could be not very efficient. Zuikov at stavka (for init)provide only a 12.5% => 18% increase of success, while at front level he have nearly 50% of success.

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Post #: 127
RE: Current Front COmmanders - 1/6/2017 11:44:44 AM   
GabrielBora

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 10/14/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

The more important leader is the army one.

I think based on some previous thread i read that for example a INIT 5 leader have 50% of success at army level (no taken into account various bonus/malus such as distance, HQ moved or not, etc...), 25% at front level and 12.5% at stavka level.

So putting the best at high level could be not very efficient. Zuikov at stavka (for init)provide only a 12.5% => 18% increase of success, while at front level he have nearly 50% of success.



That is the optimist view on things.
it also true that a INIT 5 leader have 50% of failure at army level. (and you can barely find enough of them )
front fails 75% , STAVKA FAILS 87,5 % to reedem them .

You might find some good leaders that only fail 30% of the time at army level (and we need them in 1941) but for the army and the war as a whole,
initiative needs to go up each level of command .



(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 128
RE: Current Front COmmanders - 1/8/2017 2:00:32 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Just sent 11-7-1941

no material movement in the MLR - next turn snow comes so there will be some Germans attacks.

Regarding SW front yes I have struggled to maintain the integrity and size of fronts. I find one of the most frustrating parts of the game
is units retreating in any and all directions making organization a pain.

Also there aren't enough released fronts given the large number of units.


Below is my current front loads. Suggestions


The more I learn - the more there is to learn...



quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielBora


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

The more important leader is the army one.

I think based on some previous thread i read that for example a INIT 5 leader have 50% of success at army level (no taken into account various bonus/malus such as distance, HQ moved or not, etc...), 25% at front level and 12.5% at stavka level.

So putting the best at high level could be not very efficient. Zuikov at stavka (for init)provide only a 12.5% => 18% increase of success, while at front level he have nearly 50% of success.



That is the optimist view on things.
it also true that a INIT 5 leader have 50% of failure at army level. (and you can barely find enough of them )
front fails 75% , STAVKA FAILS 87,5 % to reedem them .

You might find some good leaders that only fail 30% of the time at army level (and we need them in 1941) but for the army and the war as a whole,
initiative needs to go up each level of command .









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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/8/2017 2:01:22 AM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 129
Army Commanders - 1/8/2017 2:09:43 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		And here are the army commanders




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/8/2017 2:10:02 AM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 130
RE: Army Commanders - not assigned - 1/8/2017 2:20:05 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		And here are my best unassigned army commanders - clearly some work to do.




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Andy M

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Post #: 131
Air commanders - 1/8/2017 2:25:00 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		I haven't done anything here but the situation isn't as bad as army commanders.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/8/2017 2:26:20 AM >

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Andy M

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RE: Air commanders - 1/8/2017 2:27:44 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Will get 11-13-1941 Turn 22 overnight so I will be publishing that turns results with the expectation that the enemy will renew his attacks.

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Post #: 133
RE: Army Commanders - 1/9/2017 6:55:16 AM   
GabrielBora

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 10/14/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

And here are the army commanders






The soviet side needs to make best use ,even from the worse comanders and low morale divisions .
You put one army Hq asigned to stavka behind each front.
18th army backs up Southern front ,16th army backs North caucasus front, 19th army backs up Southwestern front , 21th the Bryansk front, 20th the Western front, 24th army the Kalinin front (upon arival),22nd army the Northwest front and so on .
These hqțs are are striped of whatever good divisions they have, to replace the front losses and only given construction units in support.
Than whenever a fighting front division gets to demoralised(35 morale for me ) you transfer it, to these sapper armies and repace it with a high morale but yet inexperienced division.

Since in 1941 you receive only 10 fronts but 52 armies , you only need 42 good army leaders ( 4 per front + 2 to defend karelia and krimea ) .

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 134
RE: Fortified Zones and defending - 1/14/2017 12:44:14 AM   
Maximillian999

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/14/2017
Status: offline 		Top, I saw you mentioned how disappointing the FZs were when defending Leningrad and Moscow. Most players recommend using those only for building/maintaining hex fort levels and disbanding them once the enemy gets near. It's not just you, they are always brittle and not very effective in combat.

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Post #: 135
RE: Fortified Zones and defending - 1/14/2017 7:08:53 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Thanks - unfortunately, I figured that out the hard way.

What is it that is said, "IF ITS NOT PAINFL - ITS NOT A LESSON
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maximillian999

Top, I saw you mentioned how disappointing the FZs were when defending Leningrad and Moscow. Most players recommend using those only for building/maintaining hex fort levels and disbanding them once the enemy gets near. It's not just you, they are always brittle and not very effective in combat.



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Post #: 136
RE: Army Commanders - 1/14/2017 7:10:03 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		GabrielBora

I like the idea. Will try to set such things up over time.

Right now doing final planning for the winter counteroffensive.

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Andy M

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Post #: 137
11-20-1941 - one more turn of snow - 1/14/2017 7:11:38 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		MLR has been pretty static.

Enemy has continued a slow push to Stalino and a pincer move on kalinin.

About 60% of the winter forces are now in place near Moscow.

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Post #: 138
Moscow area - 1/14/2017 7:17:32 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Kalinin likely to be last casualty of war of the summer - will move up troops next turn to start the attack on first blizzard turn




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Andy M

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Post #: 139
Stalino area - 1/14/2017 7:18:44 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Linear German tactics here




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/14/2017 7:22:10 PM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 140
The Winter Counteroffensive Planning - 1/14/2017 7:25:48 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Priority 1 - Moscow
Priority 2 - linear attacks wherever enemy is exposed
Priority 3 - maintain reserve to launch secondary attack, potentially to push towards Leningrad.

I really haven't thought forward of that I am open to ideas, as I think I will have ability to do more than that.

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Andy M

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Post #: 141
End of November 1941 - The Winter Offensive Plan - 1/15/2017 2:58:46 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		MOSCOW ATTACK.

here is the plan. Forecast is for Blizzard, so here we go to get back Moscow...




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/15/2017 3:00:10 PM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 142
RE: End of November 1941 - The Winter Offensive Plan - 1/18/2017 9:08:47 AM   
GabrielBora

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 10/14/2016
Status: offline 		Your atack forces are either understrenght or low on morarale , posibly both .

Even with the 41b TOE , a soviet division around national morale packs 3,2 CV . 3,1 for mountain divisions.


(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 143
RE: End of November 1941 - The Winter Offensive Plan - 1/18/2017 9:09:07 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		That pic was taken in November - I got the bump in turn 25 Dec 4 1941
quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielBora

Your atack forces are either understrenght or low on morarale , posibly both .

Even with the 41b TOE , a soviet division around national morale packs 3,2 CV . 3,1 for mountain divisions.





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Post #: 144
Turn 25 - COUNTERATTACK - 1/18/2017 9:17:45 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Blizzard arrives

DRIVE THOSE AXIS BASTARDS BACK!

Plan executed as per above picture.
Moscow attack grinds forward for a hex gain.
beat up on the axis minors around Stalino
launched secondary attack towards Kalinin


Figured out the hard way that the Una river at Kaluga cannot be forced by most units. Bummer - really should have known that...

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Post #: 145
Kalinin Area - 1/18/2017 9:29:15 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		7 hexes taken in a sporadic secondary front. Expect more progress over time.

Rail troops will be attacking south to close the Moscow pincer if he doesn't withdrawal.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/18/2017 9:33:44 PM >

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Post #: 146
Main MOSCOW ATTACK ZONE - 1/18/2017 9:42:09 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Reds fared well here. I planned out the first turns attack and all were successful. More troops are being railed in to keep up pressure.

Enemy deploying fixed fortifications but has no meaningful reserves, so I still expect to get Moscow back in January




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Andy M

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Post #: 147
SOuthern Secondar attacks - 1/18/2017 9:53:02 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		13 hexes attacked and taken in opportunistic attacks meant to tie down enemy from transferring troops to Moscow




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Post #: 148
final thoughts - 1/18/2017 9:57:46 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		I am not convinced of my pestering tactics to the north and south, but it is what I did. I still have 50 units to bring forward, and as you can see, I am not so good at keeping army frontiers. I clean them up only to have to do it again a few turns later.

As far as admin points I have 500 and I have yet to build a cavalry corps.

have set my HQ support to 9 and think it is the wrong setting driving minor overages on army points so probably will reset to 8

As far as the next several turns, my goals are to continue the compression around Moscow and bring up more troops

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Andy M

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Post #: 149
RE: final thoughts - 1/18/2017 10:23:35 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		You should already have at least 15 cavalry corps with sapper attachments. You aren't gaining anything through delay based on what is shown here.

As far as HQ support levels go, all that should be over and done with, HQs locked, by the end of Summer '41. Not sure what your intent is here.

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 150
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