Slitherine

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keeping Italian fleet in northern Adriatic until France surrendered

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ORIGINAL: James Taylor

I wish we could do something about the French fleet quandry. Maybe the Royal Navy would stand to gain a few naval units from French defections if the Allied player endeavored to save as much of the fleet as possible.

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ORIGINAL: Seminole

I thought part of the point of these kinds of games was to offer the opportunity for taking different actions than were historically executed.

Is there a reason the French Navy couldn't have sallied forth to battle their invaders?
I can understand debate over the relative strength of the French navy vis-a-vis other powers in the game at the outset, but why handcuff the players when a major point of the game is to explore the What Ifs?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: ILCK

Never engage the French navy. Waste of MPP.

Best thing to do is to abuse the ability to sail out, attack and return -- especially in the Med. Subs are great at savaging the U.K. Surface fleet if you can get enough together because most of their DDs will be prowling the Atlantic. I don't like using air power because that is usually committed to the Eastern Front.

Another thing to ponder is if it is really worth fighting it at all. If you are gonna do Sea Lion then you need to fight the navy. If not, it really isn't worth the effort and I use them German fleet to do no more than sink the Baltic fleet and a few units raiding Russian convoys.

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Beta Tester: Panzer Corps, Time of Fury, CtGW, DC CB, DC3 Barbarossa, SC WWII WiE, SC WWII WaW, SC WWI

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ORIGINAL: Seminole

I thought part of the point of these kinds of games was to offer the opportunity for taking different actions than were historically executed.

Is there a reason the French Navy couldn't have sallied forth to battle their invaders?
I can understand debate over the relative strength of the French navy vis-a-vis other powers in the game at the outset, but why handcuff the players when a major point of the game is to explore the What Ifs?

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The problem is that the "What if the French fleet mounted suicide attacks against any Axis target it could find?" scenario is an inevitability in the game at the moment, not an experiment.

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ORIGINAL: crispy131313

I wonder if it is possible to turn the table so to speak and place very high morale losses for the loss of French Naval ships, which in turn could lead to French surrender as the Germans approach Paris rather then capturing the capital. It would certainly be more entertaining if the French ships were targets of the Axis rather then an avoidance at all costs.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: crispy131313

I wonder if it is possible to turn the table so to speak and place very high morale losses for the loss of French Naval ships, which in turn could lead to French surrender as the Germans approach Paris rather then capturing the capital. It would certainly be more entertaining if the French ships were targets of the Axis rather then an avoidance at all costs.

warspite1

The only downside of that is then things go the other way and the French simply refuse to use them. The French did of course use their navy, and the loss of ships for valid reasons - U-boat war with destroyers or in the Western Med vs the RM, or in the Atlantic hunting surface raiders are sound reasons and should not incur a penalty (or a sensible one if the new Dunkerques are sunk). But if any warship gets sunk within x hexes of the German coast then morale falls off a cliff cos they shouldn't be there!

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ORIGINAL: crispy131313

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: crispy131313

I wonder if it is possible to turn the table so to speak and place very high morale losses for the loss of French Naval ships, which in turn could lead to French surrender as the Germans approach Paris rather then capturing the capital. It would certainly be more entertaining if the French ships were targets of the Axis rather then an avoidance at all costs.

warspite1

The only downside of that is then things go the other way and the French simply refuse to use them. The French did of course use their navy, and the loss of ships for valid reasons - U-boat war with destroyers or in the Western Med vs the RM, or in the Atlantic hunting surface raiders are sound reasons and should not incur a penalty (or a sensible one if the new Dunkerques are sunk). But if any warship gets sunk within x hexes of the German coast then morale falls off a cliff cos they shouldn't be there!

Naturally I wasn't suggesting the loss of a ship means surrender, but rather if the entire French Fleet was sent into suicide mode against Italy this would be a huge morale loss. As the game is right now it makes no sense to even attack an adjent French ship.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Hi

With the engine as it currently is, the only way we could make France lose more National Morale when its ships are sunk would be to increase the MPP cost of these units, and I don't think that's a satisfactory solution.

I have been thinking of what can be done to reduce the potential for the French fleet being used in a sacrificial mode, and it seems to me that changing their starting strengths, dispositions and arrival times could have some impact.

For instance, at the moment all French ships start on the map at full strength, meaning they are ready to go into combat right from day one.

But if some of them arrived slightly later, and/or at slightly lower strength, then organising a mission would take longer and the French might then want to consider investing some MPPs into it to make it more effective.