Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: woods

Somehow I find the use of subs in AE is really tough. Most of the time they sit in port with the most aggressive commanders - surely ahistorical. How do you use them?

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep, like they say. Don't use anything automatic. Vs the AI go for regular shipping lanes. Vs an human, you might have more success going after his warships and supporting your own.

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ORIGINAL: Revthought

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ORIGINAL: woods

Somehow I find the use of subs in AE is really tough. Most of the time they sit in port with the most aggressive commanders - surely ahistorical. How do you use them?

1. Don't let them operate on automatic mode, unless you really need a heavy patrol around New Zealand (as the Allies).
a. Use the "set patrol zone" task force function to set a patrol zone. Starting out, you can use "patrol around target," but as time goes by you'll get better at predicting where your opponent/the AIs ships will end up. Once that happens, set your own.

2. Be sure that you're setting your sub patrol TFs to react. They only have a max react of 1, but having it set is critical to getting them to close with radar/plane contacts that aren't in the same hex they are.

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep, like they say. Don't use anything automatic. Vs the AI go for regular shipping lanes. Vs an human, you might have more success going after his warships and supporting your own.

Human players have convoys too. The trick is to figure out which shipping lanes your opponent is using in a PBEM as they are going to be fewer in number than the AI and most likely utilize much different ports.

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And a smart opponent will change them up on a regular basis so that you have to keep searching for them.

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ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

There is nothing "gamey" about using AMs, YPs, PBs etc. as pickets - they are warships. However, some (me included) consider using civilian ships like xAKLs for picket duty as being "gamey."

I find as Japanese player that submarines become increasingly important as pickets as well, as the war drags on. Never enough patrol aircraft to cover the periphery of the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere, surface pickets don't survive long, and sending subs on offensive missions to hunt convoys or warships is fast becoming suicidal starting 1943.

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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And a smart opponent will change them up on a regular basis so that you have to keep searching for them.

Or to defend them so heavily that their penetration is next to impossible. Maybe a combination of both.

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ur sub patrol TFs to react. They only have a max re

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ORIGINAL: Revthought

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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And a smart opponent will change them up on a regular basis so that you have to keep searching for them.

Or to defend them so heavily that their penetration is next to impossible. Maybe a combination of both.

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ur sub patrol TFs to react. They only have a max re

Yes, this happens, I can attest. :D That being said, I adjust my sub patrols almost every turn, which helps significantly. I also tend to concentrate my subs, and once I see my opponent is heavily protecting a convoy, it usually means they've pulled escorts from elsewhere to deal with my subs... so I move my patrols and pick on the now lightly guarded convoys.

I have also found that the subs are very useful at picking on supply runs to island garrisons that players (even I'm guilty of this from time to time) think they can get away with sending unguarded AKLs to do the job.

What I do not think has been said yet:

1. if you're playing the Allies, during the early war it's also important to think about which subs have which torpedo types. A quick rule of thumb is that Dutch, British, and American S boats have torpedoes that are not effected by high Allied dud rates. So the Dutch and the British subs are your go-to for actually sinking ships. So too are the American S-boats, but they're more tricky to use because of their very short range.

2. Again, if you are playing the Allies, you have very few subs that can convert into SSTs--Narwhal, Nautilus, Argonaut. I usually park these in Sydney or Pearl until they can be converted. They are a rare commodity.

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, you need to use all your subs-even the American subs. The one saving grace is that Japanese ASW in the first years is pretty horrendous as well. I find the SST pretty useless for the Americans. APD and later small landing craft can do the job.

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ORIGINAL: Revthought

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, you need to use all your subs-even the American subs. The one saving grace is that Japanese ASW in the first years is pretty horrendous as well. I find the SST pretty useless for the Americans. APD and later small landing craft can do the job.

You can use all of the American subs, and I do. It's just the British, Dutch, and S boats are the most reliable in terms of sinking ships while the Allied dud-rate malus is still in effect. So, for example, if you wanted to use subs like others here have suggested as pickets rather than in a true sea denial role in the early part of the war, knowing that the Dutch, British, and S boats have halfway decent torpedoes might help you decide which submarines you want to use on picket duty, and which you want to use for commerce raiding.

As for the SSTs, I understand what you are saying. I will just say that the number of APDs and SSTs you get playing the Allies is small, and you won't get any other Allied SSTs. You can also convert them early enough (I believe April of 1942) that the SSTs can come in handy actually running supplies to isolated garrisons (or evacuating them) in areas it is still difficult for the Allies to resupply/evacuate using "traditional" methods.

Incidentally, because of how few APDs the Allies get, I recommend you convert every destroyer capable of converting to APDs. You usually have the choice of converting to an APD or DE. You'll eventually be swimming in DEs, but your fast transport capabilities--as the Allies--will always be limited.