RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/26/2017 2:13:06 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

It looks like I will not be able to take China so my objective will be to keep it isolated as long as possible.

I can't see everything, but I wouldn't give up on China yet. although you are at Chengtu, what does Chunking look like?

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 811

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/26/2017 2:29:49 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Rio is getting more troops into Burma, I am not. He has not DAed yet but when he does it will be with overwhelming forces.

So it is time to start my withdraw into the jungle. Shwebo will be first.

Well, it is '43. He will be getting the US INF upgrade along with ESSEX, Corsairs, F6F's. He still is really short of bombers though. Some rules I use in '43.
1. You are still able to have numbers advantage with fighters. When you have George fielded, sweep hard with overwhelming numbers. Ideally 3:1 or better. So like 4x36 as a minimum. Bigger groups are always better to sweep with. Be sure to have best commanders in the air units and the air HQ that you can. You will lose some pilots, but you should be able to keep your losses well above 1:1. He can't afford that in '43 with anything other than F6F, and even then he can't do it for long.
2. Keeping his fighter pool short means he can neither sweep you nor have strong escort for his bombers. This means your LCU's will not be subjected to bombing ... and his will.
3. His LCU's are now STRONGER than yours ... more firepower even though AV is about the same. Don't be fooled by the AV numbers. The firepower will hurt you very badly and his troops EXP's now should be above 50 fairly consistently. Your bombers are the equalizer in '43.

As for Burma ... I hate Burma.

So, yes withdrawal is about moving through a series of MLR's until you are back somewhere east of Hanoi. With skill and luck, you won't be there until late '44. The goal is to never let the allies get behind you. Always remember that their units are FASTER than yours. Really. Your next defensive line needs to be manned before you start you retreat. Manned doesn't mean 1200AV, it just means something there that a fast units can't kick out in 1 turn. So any bde or reg that is dug into 3x terrain with 3 forts can hold against an allied ID pretty easy for 2 attacks or more. That's all the time you need for your withdrawing forces to catch up preventing you from being encircled. Each line should be no more than 3 hexes from the current one. Easy to lay out in SE Asia ... lotsa jungle hexes.

You need to plan what forces will be sacrificed in Singers. You can't hold it, but you can't give it up for free either. Always a tough call, never right or wrong. Lots of AAR's to read through to get ideas of what was done and how long they lasted.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 812

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/26/2017 1:00:16 PM

el lobo

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adarbrauner

I will miss the infrastructure, especially the airfield, but I think my time to be proactive here is limited.

I agree on China.

Andav

I have a Regiment at Prome I can march there.

The forts one was a little surprising as there were only three or four days that the airfield was not damaged, but I guess that is all it took. I will keep it higher this time around.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 813

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/26/2017 1:03:35 PM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Spent a lot of time in thailand, both north and south. Had a "little" rl distract me many times there.

We went to Vientianne for some Visa work. Coming back across the border there was a young man asking for a ride. We dropped him off at Udon Thani airport. He happened to be Japanese.

I am making a couple of assumptions here but any thing to which you can relate?

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 814

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/26/2017 1:07:49 PM

el lobo

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Thanks Pax. A lot of good information as usual.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 815

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/26/2017 11:45:03 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Spent a lot of time in thailand, both north and south. Had a "little" rl distract me many times there.

We went to Vientianne for some Visa work. Coming back across the border there was a young man asking for a ride. We dropped him off at Udon Thani airport. He happened to be Japanese.

I am making a couple of assumptions here but any thing to which you can relate?

Just that I was single, and I always have been a sucker for dark eyes and hair. I've noticed that those traits are not that uncommon in Udon Thani.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 816

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/28/2017 11:31:46 AM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I can't see everything, but I wouldn't give up on China yet. although you are at Chengtu, what does Chunking look like?

CHINA Apr 9, 1943 Turn 489

We took Neikiang today.

I haven't done much with CK except daily bombing. I expect he has 6.5K +/- by now. I am going to move some units out of Chengtu to CK and see what I can do there for awhile. I am hoping Rio will DA me in Chengtu, which I doubt he will do, or move some more units out toward Burma so I can pick them off.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 817

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/28/2017 11:36:42 AM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Well, it is '43. He will be getting the US INF upgrade along with ESSEX, Corsairs, F6F's. He still is really short of bombers though. Some rules I use in '43.
1. You are still able to have numbers advantage with fighters. When you have George fielded, sweep hard with overwhelming numbers. Ideally 3:1 or better. So like 4x36 as a minimum. Bigger groups are always better to sweep with. Be sure to have best commanders in the air units and the air HQ that you can. You will lose some pilots, but you should be able to keep your losses well above 1:1. He can't afford that in '43 with anything other than F6F, and even then he can't do it for long.
2. Keeping his fighter pool short means he can neither sweep you nor have strong escort for his bombers. This means your LCU's will not be subjected to bombing ... and his will.

BURMA SWEEPS Apr 9, 1943 Turn 489

The first George unit will be in the field in about a week. It will be an offensive unit and sweep as you suggest. My Jack units are defensive right now so I am sweeping with Zeros, Tojos (OK), and Oscars (Ugh) as that is all I have for offense for now. I am finally getting enough units upgraded to have some full-size units for offense.

They have done fairly well.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 818

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/28/2017 2:37:10 PM

PaxMondo

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Be cautious sweeping with Oscar. Even though you are knocking down planes, you will be training up his pilots. When thsoe pilots resurface later in better planes, they are really nasty. For example, of those 29 P40's you got he likely lost less than 6 pilots. While those 19 kills of his added 3 - 5 pts of exp 19 times to his pilots.

The goal of the sweeps with overwhelming numbers is that your A2A losses are minimal, all of his planes go down, and with George 4x20mm his pilot losses are higher. So, he losses planes, but gains almost no pilot experience. Your pilots rack up EXP (rotate them out at ~80 exp so your high EXP pool continues to grow), and your plane losses are minimal. When he stops CAP. bomb his bases and then units in bases, continue to advance and rack up his device losses. This is the advantage of having the initiative. Pick targets that he will defend. Always monitor your supply usage.

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Pax

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Post #: 819

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/31/2017 11:04:24 AM

el lobo

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Pax, an Magic Highway question.

As you can see by last month's production, oil is dropping-off as the surpluses are being shipped. I still have some oil in the DEI and Java that I would like to ship back to the HI but I don't have the tankers.

If I pull a couple of tanker out of Fusan, will that upset the algorithm or is it established enough to handle some disruption?

Thanks.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 820

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 1/31/2017 9:54:14 PM

PaxMondo

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Should not be a big problem ... just keep a steady pull, doesn' t matter as much of how big it is.

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Pax

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Post #: 821

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/2/2017 11:43:00 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Apr 14, 1943 Turn 494

Rio did his first major DA of the game and Lashio is under serious attack. I am trying to send reinforcements but I doubt they will make it in time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lashio (62,46)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66941 troops, 1024 guns, 1348 vehicles, Assault Value = 2505

Defending force 16229 troops, 170 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 545

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 1133

Japanese adjusted defense: 1933

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1436 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 122 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled
Guns lost 28 (1 destroyed, 27 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1698 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 180 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 27 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 59 disabled
Guns lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 20 (1 destroyed, 19 disabled)

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 822

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/3/2017 12:10:58 AM

PaxMondo

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Do you have supply to recover your disablements in Lashio?

If so, you may hold for a bit. he got a pretty good roll with 1:2 odds.... but you are also seeing the impact of the firepower of '43 allied units now. They have a lot of guns ...

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Pax

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Post #: 823

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/3/2017 11:51:41 AM

el lobo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Do you have supply to recover your disablements in Lashio?

If so, you may hold for a bit. he got a pretty good roll with 1:2 odds.... but you are also seeing the impact of the firepower of '43 allied units now. They have a lot of guns ...

Not really. It got a little better now that I have the air units out of there. I am flying in from two different locations.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 824

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/4/2017 11:01:46 AM

el lobo

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BURMA Apr 15, 1943 Turn 495

Lashio went to forts three today.

George saw its first combat. The CRs showed no losses but the unit screen show a much different story.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 825

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/4/2017 7:35:08 PM

PaxMondo

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Were those from before the upgrade?

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Pax

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Post #: 826

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/5/2017 12:28:49 AM

el lobo

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Unfortunately no. Here is the day before.

Also the Opps Loss is misleading. Something to do with the difference between the number of a/c in the unit and the max number I suspect. The unit has yet to fill-out. Total Opps Loss is only one.

I think the losses may be due to inexperience. Before I send them on sweep I will change-out the inexperienced pilots.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 827

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/5/2017 3:13:06 AM

PaxMondo

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Yep, 7 A2A losses ...

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Pax

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Post #: 828

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/6/2017 10:03:33 AM

el lobo

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BURMA Apr 17, 1943 Turn 497

Rio has bombarded Lashio the last two turns. Supply is up but I doubt that it will survive the next DA. I'm not sure for what he is waiting, he has over ten to one there.

I have started retreating the units that were headed that way and we will be falling back into the jungle. My Regiment is almost to Ramree so I can start retreating those units that are to the east of it soon.

I have two units retreating back into Shwebo and as soon as they are there we will start retreating from there. We will leave a token force.

I have a second George unit in Rangoon building- out. Hopefully by the time we get this phase of our retreating completed we will have some time to do some serious sweeping.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 829

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/6/2017 10:14:14 PM

PaxMondo

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10:1 is about what he needs. You are in 2x or 3x terrain + F3. If you are able to recover disablements, it is a big deal. He took a lot of disablements and is likely short on supply to recover. If he DA's now, his disablements will convert to losses.

Anyway, you need to really focus on your next line of resistance ... where you are at is going to cave shortly IMO. You are in plain terrain, he can take any of those bases whenever he wants. He is waiting to bag all of your units.

Remember, without a terrain modifier, you can't hold against him any more unless you own the air and have the supply to spend on bombing. he has way too much firepower.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 830

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/10/2017 2:56:43 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Apr 21, 1943 Turn 501

Lashio is hanging by a very thin thread and I am surprised it has lasted this long. AV is fifty-six now so I doubt it makes it much longer.

Units are moving into the jungle but it it slow-going. (Map soon.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lashio (62,46)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66496 troops, 1081 guns, 1388 vehicles, Assault Value = 2358

Defending force 11887 troops, 148 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 201

Allied adjusted assault: 1184

Japanese adjusted defense: 568

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2598 casualties reported
Squads: 39 destroyed, 129 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 117 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 43 (19 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
409 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 43 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 831

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/12/2017 12:17:58 PM

el lobo

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BURMA Apr 24, 1943 Turn 504

Lashio finally falls.

The evacuation of Shwebo has begun.

The Allied units at 60,49 are a beat-up unit trying to get back to its lines. I am moving some units down there to help them along.

I am still waiting for a couple of small units to finish moving before I begin evacuation of the hex east of Ramree.

I am scouring AARs for information but suggestions for immediate locations to secure in the jungle appreciated.

TIA

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 832

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/12/2017 1:31:45 PM

Lowpe

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I fought thru all this terrain, and documented it pretty heavily against Tiemanj. Lots of people contributed ideas, Alfred giving several of very notable mention...don't neglect attempting to cut Allied supply line I used Naval Guard units for infiltration movements thru the jungle to cut lines.

Bangkok is worth fighting for, as is the base above it which needs to be secured pretty heavily.

Look for the JR terrain. Look for roads and even rails to walk on thru the nasty terrain. I used my tanks as an emergency fire teams to rush and stop or slow the Allied breakthru.

A defensive festung always had at least two AA units, several Artillery sized 10cm or larger, and the good IJA Divisions (not the air mobile ones). Break them down into thirds to let them dig in faster, but combine them once the allies show up. In open terrain you are dead unless you have a river and forts and then you need a ton of heavy AA units to prevent the Allied bombers from devastating you.

Plan your retreats and prepare the ground for them. Try to setup repair bases where units can rebuild and stockpile supply all the way back to Saigon. Make sure you fully understand the forced retreat mechanics.

This can be a real long grind, which is good for you. Trading your troops off defensively in great terrain. Nowhere better to fight....just don't lose them to either Allied amphib invasion or paratroop landings (they can land by ship or plane a lot of troops very fast).

Allied troops are much faster than yours.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/12/2017 1:35:40 PM >

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 833

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/12/2017 2:00:42 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Allied troops are much faster than yours.

+1

There is a ton of JR.

Start figuring out which units you will let go to Singers now, that way you can be sure they are taking the correct path.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 834

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/12/2017 3:09:36 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Plan your retreats and prepare the ground for them. Try to setup repair bases where units can rebuild and stockpile supply all the way back to Saigon. Make sure you fully understand the forced retreat mechanics.

Great advice on the whole post above.

This part I am wondering about as although I understand most of the mechanics, it can still be unpredictable. I know units retreat toward supply most often, but sometimes they just go absolutely the wrong way for no apparent reason. If this is a brigade, fine. If it's several divisions, it hurts.

My point here is always keep some reserve to plug holes if the worst happens and the Allies do break the line and retreat goes the wrong way.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 835

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/13/2017 1:15:52 PM

el lobo

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Hay Lowpe, good to see you back here and in your AAR.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Great advice on the whole post above.

+ 1. Yes, along with Pax's advise at the top of the page and yours. I hope I can live-up to it all.

The wife is leaving in a couple of days for a four day holiday and while the cat is away, the mouse will be scrolling AARs. * Cough, cough. * Not that I need her permission of course, I'm just saying.

Thanks to all.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 836

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/14/2017 2:38:50 AM

el lobo

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AIR PRODUCTION Apr 26, 1943 Turn 506

I now have a little over 500 A6M5 Zeros in the pool. Should I hold it around there or let it continue to build?

My three George units are still building-out. You can see the effect of the SR3 before they even begin to fly.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 837

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/14/2017 12:12:25 PM

PaxMondo

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One of the many decisions that you have to make ... you can't use SR3 like you can SR1. Its something you either adapt to or you have to stay with SR1. historically, the IJ didn't do well with SR3 planes and consequently used the Zero/Oscar throughout the war.

You are now trying to field the George and you need to adapt tactics. These have been written up dozens of times and I won't try to do it again here (google search it on the forums) but things like BIG airfields, excess AV, good leaders with high inspiration and admin skills, air HQ, etc. ara more important than before. Where and how you move them is critical. You need to plan their use many turns in advance, my rule is SR**2 (SR squared) days. So SR1 aircraft only need to be planned 1 day in advance, but SR2 aircraft need a 4 day plan, etc. So the George, you should be writing today the plan for that groups activity for May 6 today (what mission will it do?) One reason for this is that if you need to move the group to perform a mission, you need to do so way in advance, which means you have to plan that move and all the consequences of that move, way in advance ... very different tactical thinking compared to SR1. Wait until you play with SR5 aircraft.

Truthfully, just as historical, many players never choose to adapt to higher SR planes and so use the low SR throughout the war. It is one of the many paradigm shifts that an IJ player needs to adapt to in order to fully use their arsenal, that the allied player never does. The lack of firepower, the lack of speed, the lack of supply, the lack of ASW improvement, .... its a long list of changes the IJ player has to adapt to during the crucial part of the game (43/44).

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 838

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/14/2017 1:30:55 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

500 A6M5 are a lot depending upon your planned usages.

George is great: good sweeper; great anti Lightning; great anti-bomber.

High SR planes and rail networks work together really well.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 839

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 2/15/2017 6:56:46 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

Keep Paoshan at all costs.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 840

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