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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/22/2017 8:05:01 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I ran the same idea through my head and came to the same conclusions.

I've made similar miscalculations in the game, most recently not understanding that my carriers couldn't upgrade at the port I had selected. That little miscalculation played a big part in what happened at Celebes (my carriers ended up going much further away and thus couldn't respond to the emergency as I had originally envisioned).

That was just one of many misunderstandings/miscalculations I've made. I still think the biggest two were: a fundamental lack of understanding of what the Allied fighter replacement rates were (that played a big role in Sumatra) and granting John the "no strat bombing until 1944" house rule.



Sometimes I cut some slack. But do overs are done when a bug causes some sort of disaster not to correct bad game play. Unless, you both have a habit of doing this. Come on now, you two have both got a decade of playing experience behind you. There is not much excuse for missing this one though. You can't strat move out of a shared hex. We all know that.

I didnt knew that to be honest.


I trashed some Allied divisions on Java because of that rule...and it took the Allies by complete surprise. In fact we put the game on hold for awhile to figure out if it was a a bug or not.

I went back to page 196 or so; was curious to see what I said at the end of the Sumatra campaign, but there it was the: the Mini KB doing a Jeb Stuart circling routine!

Thanks so much for the AAR -- what absolutely great times!


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/22/2017 8:18:07 PM >

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 9211
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/22/2017 11:21:56 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Lee could be aggressive on defense, but he also knew when and how to retreat, as he showed in '64.

(in reply to Lowpe)

And still the Union rolled up the lines at will in April 1865. A battle of logistics and a battle of industry and the Union just had more, hopeless: Sutherland Station, Namozine Church, Amelia Springs, Sayler's Creek, Rice's Station, High Bridge...well, you know the rest

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9212
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/22/2017 11:45:07 PM   
DW

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I like the General Hood comparison. But Lee was awfully aggressive on the defense, and I don't think the comparison holds. And if that is Sidney Albert, I don't think that comparison holds either but is better than Lee. Longstreet definitely holds though. Ole Pete.



Unless the object is a Civil War comparison, I'd go with Kesselring's Italian campaign.

He always fought as far south as safety permitted, reacted competently when faced with surprises and always managed to get his forces north in tolerably good order when the time came.

That campaign is almost a textbook example of trading ground for time and making the enemy pay a dear price as he did it.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 9213
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/22/2017 11:53:52 PM   
DW

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John thinks he should be able to stand toe-to-toe with the Allies in mid '44 (and, for all I know, he thinks he ought to be able to do so in '45).


This was John's wet dream scenario, so to speak.

With all the extra late war toys he gifted himself, I wouldn't be at all surprised that he thought he could go toe to toe with the allies until very late in the war.

And, to be fair, had he gotten in one good battle with your carriers earlier in the war and traded at a rate of something like three to two in his favor, he probably would have been able to do so.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9214
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 7:46:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/11/44

Burma: The Allies achieve strong attacks (4:1 and 3:1) at Rangoon and Pegu, dropping forts a notch at each without actually taking the bases. They'll fall soon.

Fun House: Amphibs are still loading, but I think all will be at sea with Death Star by tomorrow. D-Day at Puerto Princesa should be in three days. I don't think KB will be a factor, but I'm wondering about those BBs last seen in the Bay of Bengal weeks ago.

See map for details.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to DW)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 8:32:20 PM   
Lowpe


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You should tell us what you think some of those IJN task forces are. What is at Miri?

Won't Japan bomb your Vietnam listening post?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 9:33:35 PM   
BBfanboy


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I hope you are moving DS around while waiting for the amphibs. John will be sending subs at you since he got lucky with one attack on a CV a few turns ago. The shallow water hexes might be safer than the current location.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 9:46:08 PM   
Bif1961


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Since you are comparing a land locked campaign to a naval campaign where you can strike anywhere at anytime it is apple and oranges.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 10:12:47 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Since you are comparing a land locked campaign to a naval campaign where you can strike anywhere at anytime it is apple and oranges.


Who is doing the comparing? Me (whose post you replied to) or Canoerebel? Or ??
What is the gist of the comparison you are dismissing?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 9219
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 11:21:58 PM   
Canoerebel


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I think Bif might've been referring to DW's "Kesselring withdrawal in Italy" analogy.

If I'm right, I disagree with Bif. DW's comparison was a valid one. It's incumbent upon a Japanese player to know how and when to withdraw - a phased withdrawal like Kesselring's, DW suggested.

I understand what Bif means: that Kesselring's circumstances differed from the Japanese Emporer's, but there are broader truths that apply to both.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 11:23:24 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You should tell us what you think some of those IJN task forces are. What is at Miri?

Won't Japan bomb your Vietnam listening post?


I generally know the makeup of the Japanese TFs in the vicinity of Borneo and the Philippines. When they're merchant, as is the case here, I usually don't say so simply because I'd be saying it a lot.

(in reply to Lowpe)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 11:25:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I hope you are moving DS around while waiting for the amphibs. John will be sending subs at you since he got lucky with one attack on a CV a few turns ago. The shallow water hexes might be safer than the current location.


Death Star gets moved each turn. Last time, John positioned his subs in shallow water, showing me that he had learned of my preference to position DS in such water. So now I mix it up - sometime deep water and sometimes shallow.

The nature of this mission is different and slower than the last, so I have the luxury of many, many more ASW TFs along. Security isn't full proof, but it's strong.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/23/2017 11:46:53 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
....
Won't Japan bomb your Vietnam listening post?


Sure, John might. Until he does, though, it'll serve as a good listening post in the jungle. Listening posts in the jungle can be dangerous duty; but it can also be essential.

(in reply to Lowpe)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 12:51:18 AM   
T Rav

 

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My time in the Army was peacetime so mostly just exercises, but even then, Listening Posts were no coveted duty. Necessary though.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 2:39:44 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Kesselring had to face the possibility of amphib invasions behind his lines, so it's not the worst comparison.

My guess for the imminent landings (besides Puerto Princesa): the island to the west of that, the base just east of Jesselton, and Beaufort.

Not that it matters at all, but Luangprabang is technically in Laos. Nice sleepy town, kind of like the whole country. The best thing about the country is its beer: Beer Lao.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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Post #: 9225
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 9:36:51 AM   
Canoerebel


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It's been a long, busy, tiring week at work. I got home last night and promptly fell asleep in a chair. Then I woke up at 3 a.m. and couldn't fall back asleep. So here I am with some random information about the game:

1. Rangoon and Pegu will fall within a day or two. And they have to. Ramree Island is down to 6k supply. The level 7 airfield has been a hub activity since June 1942. For most of that time it had 50k to 60k supply, but that's evaporated since the Allied air campaign recommenced on January 2, 1944. Once Rangoon and Pegu are taken, Ramree's importance should fade away.

2. I have amphibious TFs loading troops at two Philippine Islands. Most of the fighting troops are aboard ship, but - as sometimes happens - there is no button to "cancel loading." I want the ships to get underway now, with what they have. Usually there are ways around this particular issue, like clicking "unload" and then "cancel unload." But you also have to go into the loading screen and manually click "stop load." All of this is uncertain and subject to failure and highly exasperating to the anxious commander.

3. Allied air transport carried little cadres to a just auto-flipped island off Manila (to prevent it flipping back to Japan) and to Vientiane in Vietnam (or Laos, as Commander Cody points out). Given a bit of time, I'll garrison and build the Philippine island, but I don't expect to hold Vientiane. It just serves as a trigger if enemy troops approach.

4. I used a bomber squadron at Akyab to try to set missions in the non-base hexes leading to and from newly taken Luangpbragang (the AI won't let you target and empty hex, so if the squadron does accept the mission you know an enemy unit is present in the hex). None of the hexes on the various roads leading to the base accepted the targeting mission, so at the moment it doesn't seem like John is moving on this new listening post.

5. Confirmation came today that a ninth IJN DD sank during that tough naval battle of April 11. I think the final tally should be ten.

6. Death Star is in the Philippines. Every turn there are a zillion enemy merchant TFs not too far away - Miri or Palau or Balikpapan or Aparri. I could go hunting but I can't afford to chase zephyrs. Those TFs could scatter and prove difficult to pin down. Even then they may be nearly worthless. But the real problem is the opportunity cost. My supply line is very long and very narrow. Fuel comes from Oz via the Torres Strait and the DEI and the Philippine Sea (and originates in Africa or Hawaii). Thus far John hasn't managed to interdict any supply convoys. He's tried with subs and he threw bombers into the fray from New Guinea once, scoring no hits and losing a lot of aircraft to CAP. But he's monitoring things and eventually I think he'll throw in a DD TF from the Timor region. I have to conserve fuel very carefully. If I run low it'll become a crisis.

7. John has had KB positioned at Truk or the Carolines ever since Fun House got underway. Some of the time I've known it's exact position, but for a long time I had no idea. The lack of knowledge prevented me from moving forward in another leap into what I knew was open, undefended territory. So John's strategy has gained him that. The trade off is that he's left the Philippines (and points south) largely unprotected.

8. We've also engaged, mostly unknowingly, in a big game of chicken. I believe John posted KB in the Carolines because he expected me to move on Marcus Island. I, in turn, had a big TF - lots of naval ships and lots of merchants carrying reinforcements - ready to move from Hawaii directly to the Philippines. During that long interval when I didn't know KB's location, I feared moving those ships forward into the unknown. When KB showed up off Sorong I nearly had enough time to move in strength, but the window closed before I could get the ships where they needed to go. Now I'm weighing whether it'll be better to simply reroute the TFs down to the Coral Sea and then through the DEI. That decision hasn't been made yet.

9. I forgot to mention that today's Allied attack at Tacloban (Leyte) didn't do well. Two very experienced and strong Aussie RCT got 1:2 odds on 110 AV of 56th IJA Div. I suspect this might've had more to do with dice rolls than anything else, because my guys are stronger and in much better shape than John's guys. I'll stand mine down for a day or two while combat ships and dive bombers focus on 56th Div.

10. John hasn't used his kamikazes yet. And, from his recent post on the main AE page, I know he has Sams now. That's one reason I targeted Manila's airfield. He has several big airfields on Mindanao that are dangerous. Death Star will be moving to the south or southwest, away from all his airfields, and will be campaigning in a region with only small enemy fields. Mindanao is rather isolated now, so he should have some trouble with dwindling supply stores. Eventually that should render Mindanao weak.

8.


(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 1:54:14 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
2. I have amphibious TFs loading troops at two Philippine Islands. Most of the fighting troops are aboard ship, but - as sometimes happens - there is no button to "cancel loading." I want the ships to get underway now, with what they have. Usually there are ways around this particular issue, like clicking "unload" and then "cancel unload." But you also have to go into the loading screen and manually click "stop load." All of this is uncertain and subject to failure and highly exasperating to the anxious commander.


If you do a save before making those orders you should be fine. You can just go backward if it doesn't work as planned.

quote:


9. I forgot to mention that today's Allied attack at Tacloban (Leyte) didn't do well. Two very experienced and strong Aussie RCT got 1:2 odds on 110 AV of 56th IJA Div. I suspect this might've had more to do with dice rolls than anything else, because my guys are stronger and in much better shape than John's guys. I'll stand mine down for a day or two while combat ships and dive bombers focus on 56th Div.


Seems about right to me. It's x2 terrain, not sure what his forts are like, but it'll take time with only two regiments in that hex.
quote:



10. John hasn't used his kamikazes yet. And, from his recent post on the main AE page, I know he has Sams now. That's one reason I targeted Manila's airfield. He has several big airfields on Mindanao that are dangerous. Death Star will be moving to the south or southwest, away from all his airfields, and will be campaigning in a region with only small enemy fields. Mindanao is rather isolated now, so he should have some trouble with dwindling supply stores. Eventually that should render Mindanao weak.


Kamis work best in numbers, so your strategy to hit the big fields is good thinking. I'd also hit any bases you're bypassed behind the lines that are near your LOC. It's easy to stage them into a level 2 base and hit a few tankers in the rear of the front periodically. You should have a few free 2E available for those kinds of missions, right?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 3:03:57 PM   
Canoerebel


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I was more optimistic at Tacloban because 7th Assie Div. had already forced 56th Div. to retreat once, and bombardment TFs have hit it several times. So I think the 110 AV are in rather poor shape.

There'll be another attack today, supposed to be preceded by another bombardment TF. We'll see if the result is more promising after resting the troops that one day.

(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 3:57:54 PM   
Canoerebel


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5/12/44

Burma: Pegu holds; Rangoon falls; no enemy units retreat. A big day for the Allied cause.

Fun House: All amphibs are underway. The first invasion (Puerto Princesa) should take place tomorrow.




Attachment (1)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 4:17:19 PM   
paullus99


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It appears that John is about to have his Empire cut in half...if you are doing what I think you're doing.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 4:29:55 PM   
Canoerebel


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The fall of Rangoon.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 4:35:23 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

It appears that John is about to have his Empire cut in half...if you are doing what I think you're doing.


Had John committed KB to defend the Philippines, and had the Allies emerged victorious, I would have immediately moved to invade the Asian mainland. That would have cut John's empire in two.

His conservative play with KB has prevented me from doing so. I didn't have the supplies, fuel and troops to handle two big leaps forward at one time.

But his conservative play has allowed me to establish the strongest of positions in the Philippines and to move forward from there at relatively low risk. I thought John would counterattack and invade some or many of the islands taken. He didn't, so I've been able to reassign troops and move forward, expanding the hold in the central PI and vicinity. I had no plans of invading Panay or Leyte or the places about to get hit.

So it's been a trade off, as so many things are. He's played his cards a certain way, so I've had to adapt and play mine accordingly.

(in reply to paullus99)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 4:40:51 PM   
Lecivius


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op mode(-)

He still has his pants down

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 5:03:37 PM   
Canoerebel


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Yeah, I'm not sure why. It's possible he stubbornly refused to believe the rule; or it's possible (likely, probably) that he was so demoralized that he couldn't bring himself to look at the stack and change op mode. He had at least a chance of making it out, had he done so.


(in reply to Lecivius)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 5:09:12 PM   
Canoerebel


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I'm processing the next turn, but it'll take awhile due to work duties. Two things I want to mention:

1. The Allies have invaded Ocean Island, way over near the Marshalls. The invasion is stymied. John has seen BB Pennsylvania and a CL or two in action. Knowing him, he just might commit KB or part thereof way over there. To do so would be crazy when the Philippines are on fire. But that's just the kind of mission that appeals to John.

2. I made a major goof! I mixed up the troops on my amphibs, so that 6th Aussie Div. that is landing at Puerto Princesa was actually prepped for a different target. Disablements are very high and it'll be tough to re-embark the unit for it's real target, which is a much higher priority. Nuts! On the plus side, the unit at Puerto didn't bombard. It has guns, so I'm guessing it's a base force with AA capability but no artillery or ground units. I hope that's the case, because I hate to see the badly disrupted Aussie division take more damage against what might have been a harder target.

If Puerto falls, I may re-embark the Aussie and proceed with the invasion of the other target. Or I may land the unit meant for Puerto, let the 6th recover awhile, and then move forward.

In the meantime, there are two other targets, one of which is vacant and one of which is minimally defended.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 6:08:59 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, I'm not sure why. It's possible he stubbornly refused to believe the rule; or it's possible (likely, probably) that he was so demoralized that he couldn't bring himself to look at the stack and change op mode. He had at least a chance of making it out, had he done so.



Having taken three days to put his troops into op mode, then spent x days trying to move them out when you already had troops in the hex, he learned the rule and his troops would take three days to unpack again. During that time any battles get the op mode (-) modifier.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 6:11:42 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm processing the next turn, but it'll take awhile due to work duties. Two things I want to mention:

1. The Allies have invaded Ocean Island, way over near the Marshalls. The invasion is stymied. John has seen BB Pennsylvania and a CL or two in action. Knowing him, he just might commit KB or part thereof way over there. To do so would be crazy when the Philippines are on fire. But that's just the kind of mission that appeals to John.

2. I made a major goof! I mixed up the troops on my amphibs, so that 6th Aussie Div. that is landing at Puerto Princesa was actually prepped for a different target. Disablements are very high and it'll be tough to re-embark the unit for it's real target, which is a much higher priority. Nuts! On the plus side, the unit at Puerto didn't bombard. It has guns, so I'm guessing it's a base force with AA capability but no artillery or ground units. I hope that's the case, because I hate to see the badly disrupted Aussie division take more damage against what might have been a harder target.

If Puerto falls, I may re-embark the Aussie and proceed with the invasion of the other target. Or I may land the unit meant for Puerto, let the 6th recover awhile, and then move forward.

In the meantime, there are two other targets, one of which is vacant and one of which is minimally defended.

Hazards of doing a turn in the wee hours of the morning when you don't feel sleepy but your brain is skipping over details.... been there many times!


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/24/2017 6:34:42 PM   
Canoerebel


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That's the truth.

I had amphibious TFs picking up multiple units from four different bases; then I had to divide each amphibious unit so that the correct units joined ships carrying units for the same bases; and amidst all that, my brain began telling me: "Puerto Princesa is probably the strongest target, so obviously it gets the strongest Allied unit."

:)

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 9238
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/25/2017 12:57:46 AM   
Canoerebel


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5/14/44

Fun House: D-Day at Puerto Princesa, where I discover I've landed the wrong unit but learn that the IJ garrison may not have any combat troops.

Burma: IJ defenders at Rangoon beginning to evaporate. Allies will attack at Pegu tomorrow, with some hope of success.

KB: No sign of it, but I would not be surprised at all to have them show up at Ocean Island in two days. On the other hand, the Allied move to Palawan and, tomorrow, Balabac Island, may ramp up pressure a bit on John to do something.




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/25/2017 12:58:20 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/25/2017 11:56:51 AM   
obvert


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If he does have the Sam he will wait until all CVs are upgraded to it, I'm assuming. Not sure when it arrived, but he would need at least 1-2 months depending on his new production. We also don't know if his research factories would be the only production, or if he's allocating more to it. Still, to get 300-400 fighters produced and upgraded to the KB I'd bet it would take over two months. If so he may have also stood them down for upgrades.

I'd have a hard look at your SIGINT for Indochina and see if anything along the coast is open. If so, take it now!! As Allies at this stage if you have a base and can pile on units and build it quickly, the Japanese can't do much about it.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/25/2017 11:58:22 AM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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