RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert (A)

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RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/24/2017 9:44:49 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

I seem to only get merchants, etc. out of the PI during the intervals where the IJN runs out of ammo and heads to port to rearm.

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Post #: 121

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/25/2017 11:29:14 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I seem to only get merchants, etc. out of the PI during the intervals where the IJN runs out of ammo and heads to port to rearm.

He's placed some support ships at Taytay with a group of A6M to protect and provide LR CAP. A good move, and I've got some ideas to counter. The CAs haven't shown up in force yet, and when they do it'll get even more dicey around the Sulu Sea.

_____________________________

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Post #: 122

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/25/2017 2:47:25 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Dec 10, 1941

PACIFIC: A few good things happened on the 10th. At Guam the Cats got heir claws out and and hit CM Tjsugaru and xAK Venice Maru with a few 500 pounders.

Looks like the move to get Lex here in time to thwart an invasion of Guam will be too late unless he gets cold feet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 10, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 108,92

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 1 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Allied aircraft
PBY-4 Catalina x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CM Tsugaru, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PBY-4 Catalina bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 108,92

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
PBY-4 Catalina x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Venice Maru, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PBY-4 Catalina bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/25/2017 2:53:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 123

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/25/2017 2:52:48 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
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Dec 10, 1941

CHINA: One major action in China, where the Chinese cannot break through at Ichang. They'll immediately move back into the rough and spread a defensive line out there. The AVG gets some practice, flying against Anns at Ichang, and downs a few for no losses.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 10, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 67th Chinese Corps, at 83,48 (Ichang)

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27b Nate x 12
Ki-30 Ann x 21

Allied aircraft
H81-A3 x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-27b Nate: 1 destroyed
Ki-30 Ann: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Ichang (83,48)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 50354 troops, 274 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1422

Defending force 18775 troops, 125 guns, 95 vehicles, Assault Value = 643

Allied adjusted assault: 813

Japanese adjusted defense: 831

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
280 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 38 (2 destroyed, 36 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1306 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 300 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 39 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
26th Group Army

Defending units:
11th RGC Temp. Division
13th Tank Regiment
34th Division
13th RGC Temp. Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/25/2017 2:54:49 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 124

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 7:31:54 AM

obvert

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FLAK

Is this a problem? I've looked all over the Allied map and it seems no base shows a flak score currently. I see black smoke puffs over Pearl during a strike, and some planes do record as flak losses, but not many for the amount of guns there, (~92 3in/50 AA). Two of the Marine units have very good morale, experience and leaders, while the Army units are about 50/50 with poor leaders. Still, I've seen massive losses in stock bombing PH on a day two, and this is DBB, so I expected a lot more form the guns here.

So is the lack of flak counters for the bases a problem or is that standard for a DBB base info screen?

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Post #: 125

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 8:15:27 AM

cardas

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No, you should definitely have some kind of flak score. I'm not entirely sure as to how the flak value is calculated in the base screen, but as an example Pearl Harbour in DBB starts out with a flak value of 56 (barring extra losses in the opening strikes I suppose).

Even with only a relatively small amount of AA the base screen will show a value above 0. As an example of that I'll take Oosthaven. At the start of the game there's only a small Dutch base force there with 2x 20mm Rheinmetall AA and 4x 7.7mm AAMG sect. That's enough for a base screen flak value of 1.

No clue as to what's causing the issue for you though.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 126

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 9:36:58 AM

obvert

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interesting. All of my bases are zero.

EDIT: Just opened a mid-turn save from yesterday and now PH shows 67 Flak. Huh?

Why would this (and artillery) change to zero and back again without any other number going to zero. Weird.

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/27/2017 10:42:51 AM >

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Post #: 127

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 11:15:47 AM

cardas

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Ah, in that case it may potentially just be a display bug;

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4088072

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Post #: 128

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 2:09:18 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Yes, that is just a display bug.

But I was going to say - your units aren't in Rest mode, are they?

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Post #: 129

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 3:11:20 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yes, that is just a display bug.

But I was going to say - your units aren't in Rest mode, are they?

Nope. Every turn I check them out cause it's just weird that there are so few losses. It's like five planes a turn from ~150 bombing at 13k.

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Post #: 130

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 3:12:50 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cardas

Ah, in that case it may potentially just be a display bug;

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4088072

Thanks. Good to know. I would not have wanted to redo anything to get it right. These early turns are a killer!! (not to mention tense and hanging on a thread, as I'll report soon!)

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Post #: 131

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 3:30:56 PM

obvert

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Dec 11, 1941

PACIFIC: A tense turn!!

The Lex and escorts were engaged by the Wake surface support group in the day, luckily just the old Tenryu CLs and Old Mutsuki DDs, and our cruisers got the better of the battle. By the air phase the IJN were out of range, but the Lex groups found other targets!

We weren't able to get to the Guam troops before landing unfortunately, so that base will fall next turn as usual. It wouldn't have changed much, but that TF has Tjsugaru, an AV and a bunch of PBs that are useful in the beginning and a good lot of points.

The air groups did find some decent targets. Two AMCs are hit hard. Troops on board so that is fantastic.

They also hit two bigger xAK at Saipan and a few of the Guam TF ships. While this kind of delay to the Japanese So Pac and Cent Pac conquests might be short lived, it could open door to delay other larger projects if the KB is needed to shepherd bigger tougher convoys into the area.

Now to see if Lex can survive. The four older Furetaka and Aoba class cruisers and their 4 DDs are out here somewhere, but haven't shown up in searches yet.

Yikes!!

Evasive manoeuvres are ordered, and if we do avoid or escape relatively unscathed, there could be more fireworks in the naval strike department tomorrow too. The Enterprise is also just passing Wake and should close in on some of the action as well. The goal would be to join the two TFs and create a SCTF as well, then sail on where opportunity for mischief looks likely!

Fingers crossed it's not a night surface battle with IJN CAs ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 11, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Time Surface Combat, near Saipan at 118,96, Range 24,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu
CL Tatsuta, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD Mutsuki, Shell hits 1
DD Kisaragi, Shell hits 1
DD Yayoi, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Mochizuki

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Shell hits 1
CA Portland
CA Chicago
CA Astoria, Shell hits 5
DD Mahan
DD Drayton
DD Lamson, Shell hits 1
DD Flusser
DD Porter

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 24,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 24,000 yards
CV Lexington screened from combat
- escorted by DD Porter , DD Flusser , DD Lamson ,
DD Drayton , DD Mahan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 113,96

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AMC Kongo Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMC Kinryu Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
494 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AMC Kinryu Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 108,93

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-2 Dauntless x 15
TBD-1 Devastator x 8

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
xAK Nikki Maru, Bomb hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Nanman Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Nikki Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Guam at 106,95

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 3
E7K2 Alf x 1
F1M2 Pete x 6

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 11
SBD-3 Dauntless x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
E7K2 Alf: 1 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Yokohama Maru
xAK Matsue Maru, Bomb hits 1
xAK Daifuku Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK China Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Kiyokawa Maru-1 with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 3000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
Kiyokawa Maru-2 with E13A1 Jake (1 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 3000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes
Tsugaru-1 with E7K2 Alf (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 3000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 3000.
Raid is overhead

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Daifuku Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 113,96

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-2 Dauntless x 14

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AMC Kongo Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Hakkaisan Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Oite, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AMC Kongo Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring PB Hakkaisan Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Oite

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 108,93

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 8

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Nanman Maru, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Shofuku Maru, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/27/2017 8:29:11 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 132

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 6:08:59 PM

Lovejoy

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It would be interesting to see if the Lexington scored any of those hits or fired her guns. IIRC her 8 inch gun turrets weren't removed until early 1942

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Post #: 133

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/27/2017 8:28:33 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy

It would be interesting to see if the Lexington scored any of those hits or fired her guns. IIRC her 8 inch gun turrets weren't removed until early 1942

She did fire, but no hits from her. Watched the whole reply slowly, (nervously), and noted which ship was firing with each round. The USN cruisers landed all of the blows.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 134

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 8:06:29 AM

obvert

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Dec 11, 1941

SUBS: Our subs don't do much of anything either in the Pacific or in the Sulu of South China seas. Hoping they're saving that one working torpedo for the Akagi or the Kaga.

PACIFIC: More bombing by Kates at PH. The BBs keep taking the hits. No more sunk (yet).

Vindicators make it to Rabaul, which could prove useful in future. This turn they get two shots at escorting destroyers at Kaveing but miss everything. The invasion there is stalled by Allied troops for now, which is great. I've sent in some more to Wewak, aitape and other just invaded bases to see if we can't stall the small units and force a larger commitment there. I've moved PBY to Hollandia and will pull some of the Guam base force there as well, then try to get some Aussie units to defend the base. I'll send a small xAKL to try and supply it along the coast from Ambon. Good to have some eyes out here. Probably won't last, but worth a try.

DEI: One of the more effective sub laid minefields I've seen in game was laid near Palembang. I've been trying to get mines there but had two minelayers sunk on the way, plus a DD and about four xAKL!!

My AMc and a few other ships have picked up at least half of the mines and usually this makes the minefield "seen" so other ships can pass through unharmed. Not this time. Oh, well. At least no major units went that way, and the Dutch CM are pretty much a one shot deal since the pools are so low for them.

OZ: Lots of troops moving around here. Pretty much all free base forces will be removed to the So Pac areas. I want to get started there, knowing the Alleis can push where they want for a year, but wanting to make those pushes a bit harder and slower if possible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 11, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 539 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
xAK Zannis Cambanis, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 540 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
xAKL Tatung, Mine hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Lyemun, Mine hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 553 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
CM Gouden Leeuw, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 537 encounters mine field at 49,90

Allied Ships
DD Jupiter, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

Magazine explodes on DD Jupiter
3 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 112 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 46

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 1
P-39D Airacobra x 3
P-40B Warhawk x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
BB California, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 2
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

Repair Shipyard hits 1
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
City Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kavieng at 106,122

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 1 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Allied aircraft
SB2U-3 Vindicator x 14

Allied aircraft losses
SB2U-3 Vindicator: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Asanagi
DD Yunagi

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Pearl Harbor at 180,107

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 50 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 13

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AMc Redbird
AMc Condor, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AMc Cockatoo, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since the KB is away and the Ryujo is confirmed in the South China Sea, having DBs in So Pac might be very useful. If they can hit!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 135

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 6:15:14 PM

geoffreyg

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I have now caught up to date and enjoying the AAR - I have in the past normally followed just from the Japanese perspective so this is all very interesting!

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 136

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 6:19:32 PM

Lecivius

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DD's are always very hard to hit, even with highly experienced aircrews. It's a PIA, but historical. On the bright side, if you ever DO hit, it hurts lots

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Post #: 137

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 6:52:43 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

DD's are always very hard to hit, even with highly experienced aircrews. It's a PIA, but historical. On the bright side, if you ever DO hit, it hurts lots

Yep. Got some the next turn!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 138

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 9:50:07 PM

obvert

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The night was tough for the USN. Jeff likes to deploy 3 DD TFs and they had their way with the Allied Cruiser led forces. Marblehead did nothing, but even Boise and Houston were ineffective.

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Post #: 139

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 9:55:51 PM

obvert

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A few transports were hit but nothing serious. A LOT of four stackers lost for not much good.

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Post #: 140

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 9:57:24 PM

obvert

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The Dutch got a good hit on Taytay, getting 8-10 more A6M on the ground. Hopefully some pilots too.

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Post #: 141

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 9:58:25 PM

obvert

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In the Central Pacific the Lex DBs hit the injured CL and DD from the previous turn, putting them down.

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Post #: 142

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 10:00:13 PM

obvert

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Unfortunately the KB hits again at PH. It's getting ridiculous with the flak. Again only a few planes even bothered by the nearly 100 guns here. Is there a special rule for Pearl in 41?

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Post #: 143

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 10:07:13 PM

obvert

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The best part of the turn is that the Mutsu appears near the Marianas and the Lex DB and TB hit it with 16 1000 and 500 pounders.

Heavy fires are listed, but none of the shots penetrates the deck, unfortunately. It may not be a mortal wound, but it should be a long while in the yard.

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Post #: 144

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 10:11:28 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Is there a special rule for Pearl in 41?

No. Admiral Wa (Andav) reported heavy flak losses made day 2 at PH a bad deal.

Edit to fix "day 2".

< Message edited by witpqs -- 3/28/2017 10:24:43 PM >

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Post #: 145

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/28/2017 10:12:06 PM

obvert

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Two Kates and one Val lost. Out of 230 planes striking at Pearl.

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Post #: 146

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/29/2017 10:47:30 AM

obvert

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Dec 12, 1941

FLAK: I'm flabergasted. The last thing I want to do in this AAR is piss and moan, so I won't. I'm just completely perplexed at the ability of IJN bombers to hit PH turn after turn with seemingly lessening affects from flak. I've hit on day 2 myself as IJN and was very concerned about losses to the KB strike groups. I've hit other babes with a similar accumulation of flak guns and had some devastating results against my strike forces. This just doesn't make sense.

So. I'm going to write off the BB fleet at PH. He'll eventually sink them all if this keeps going, so I won't worry about it or mention it anymore. Just had to get it out of the way.

PACIFIC: Nice and unexpected to hit the Mutsu. Love it! I'll try to pursue a bit but not put Lex in too much extra danger. I need to keep the eyes on the prize here. I want to slow, to take a tithe for his advance, knowing I can't stop it completely right now. I also want to keep open the option of deep strikes if the KB takes any other forays into far flung regions of OZ or India. I will hit the HI industry or the DEI oil, so I need to keep these CVs in decent shape and available. I'll join up the Lex and Enterprise and move them either to No Pac or to Cent Pac via Wake area, and maybe threaten Kwejalien/Roi Namur, but I need some recon there. I have some Cats set to hit it tomorrow and some B-17s at Wake repairing to hit Roi before moving that way if they can.

INDIA: Been sending all significant units to Karachi. All other bases will have minimum garrisons. Karachi will build forts to level 9 and everything will hole up here until it's clear there is no threat to all of india. I'll put good garrisons on Socotra and Diego very soon. They're on the way to Cape Town now, so hopefully will arrive in time.

CHINA: The retreats are progressing. Not a lot of bombing yet. The activity in the Pacific may be occupying a lot of IJN bombers at least right now.

OZ: I have decided to fight for the Perth area. The IJ, if they come, will meet stiff resistance over there. The other coast will have some US troops eventually and Sydney and Perth will be the main garrisons. I'll send the first P-38 groups to OZ to protect against VP strat bombing as much as possible. I will not defend NZ or Fiji in a strategic decision that if he wants them he can have them, and will over extend enormously. My early focus will be Southern So Pac, PM and OZ.

NO PAC: A YP was sunk a few turns ago by IJN DDs, so I think there is a plan to get here quick. I've also got that plan, so we'll see who achieves their goals. I will start building out from the Dutch area first, building the two closest airfields next to it, plus Cold Bay and setting up minor garrisons as recon if possible at Adak and other bases in this area. Sara is on her way up here, and if the other two CVs go North all will be joined up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 12, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Taytay at 75,82, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yukikaze
DD Umikaze
DD Satsuki

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
DD Alden
DD John D. Edwards, Shell hits 1
DD Stewart, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Paul Jones, Shell hits 1
DD Whipple
DD Parrott, on fire

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 35% moonlight: 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Taytay at 75,82, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Heiei Maru #7, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
xAK Meisho Maru, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Midori Maru, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Java
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
DD Piet Hein
DD Kortenaer
DD Evertsen
DD Witte de With
DD Van Nes
DD Banckert

Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 35% moonlight: 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 10,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Taytay at 75,82

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 26 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed on ground
C5M2 Babs: 17 damaged
C5M2 Babs: 1 destroyed on ground
E13A1 Jake: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Tromp
CL De Ruyter
CL Java
DD Banckert
DD Van Nes
DD Witte de With
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein

Japanese ground losses:
334 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Airbase hits 16
Airbase supply hits 15
Runway hits 63
Port hits 2

CL Tromp firing at Taytay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Taytay at 75,82, Range 17,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yukikaze
DD Umikaze
DD Satsuki

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
DD Alden
DD John D. Edwards, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Stewart, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Paul Jones, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Whipple
DD Parrott, Shell hits 3, heavy damage

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Taytay at 75,82, Range 23,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hatsuyuki, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Minazuki, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Shiokaze

Allied Ships
CA Houston
CL Boise
DD Barker, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD John D. Ford
DD Peary, Shell hits 1
DD Pillsbury
DD Pope, Shell hits 3, on fire

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 23,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 23,000 yards
CA Houston engages DD Hatsuyuki at 23,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Lihue at 180,102, Range 13,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
BB Kirishima
CL Abukuma
DD Hamakaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Arare

Allied Ships
PT-21
PT-22, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-23, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-24, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions: 20,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 19,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 13,000 yards
BB Kirishima engages PT-24 at 13,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Buin at 109,131, Range 14,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Katsuragisan Maru, Shell hits 17, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Adelaide

Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 14,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CL Adelaide engages xAKL Katsuragisan Maru at 8,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 1
P-39D Airacobra x 11
P-40B Warhawk x 7
SNJ-3 Texan x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed
SNJ-3 Texan: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
18th PG/19th PS with P-39D Airacobra (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32
B5N2 Kate x 100
D3A1 Val x 130

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 6 damaged
D3A1 Val: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
AK Castor, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CM Oglala, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 2
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
22 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
18 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet
25 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 13000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x D3A1 Val bombing from 16000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Taytay , at 75,82

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 3
P-35A x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-35A: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
AD Choko Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 5000 feet
Port Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 114,93

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-2 Dauntless x 15
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CL Tatsuta, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yayoi, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Tatsuta
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Yayoi
Magazine explodes on DD Yayoi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taytay at 75,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5
B5N1 Kate x 9
B5N2 Kate x 5

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-35A: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD John D. Edwards, on fire
DD Pope, on fire
DD Stewart, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
5 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Pagan at 114,89

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-2 Dauntless x 13
SBD-3 Dauntless x 15
TBD-1 Devastator x 8

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 16, heavy fires
TB Sagi

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
8 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-2 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Mutsu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Taytay at 75,82, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
CA Ashigara
CL Kuma
DD Asakaze
DD Matsukaze, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD John D. Edwards, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
DD Paul Jones, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Whipple, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Allied TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 21,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Post #: 147

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/29/2017 1:01:48 PM

mind_messing

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Joined: 10/28/2013
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Side note: love the picture on the first post of the AAR. I love images like that - they give a sense of the scale of the Pacific War.

quote:

FLAK: I'm flabergasted. The last thing I want to do in this AAR is piss and moan, so I won't. I'm just completely perplexed at the ability of IJN bombers to hit PH turn after turn with seemingly lessening affects from flak. I've hit on day 2 myself as IJN and was very concerned about losses to the KB strike groups. I've hit other babes with a similar accumulation of flak guns and had some devastating results against my strike forces. This just doesn't make sense.

So. I'm going to write off the BB fleet at PH. He'll eventually sink them all if this keeps going, so I won't worry about it or mention it anymore. Just had to get it out of the way.

The only AA guns you've got at PH that can hit him are the 75mm M3 guns - they're not amazing AA guns, not by Allied standards. He's flying out of range of the 37mm M1A2 guns, which are overall better.

The 3 inch guns on the BB's and the 5 inch guns on the CL/CA's only contribute half their flak value on port attack - it's these guns in my experience that really make a mess of Japanese planes (esp the 5 inch guns) prior to the proliferation of the 20mm and 40mm AA guns, and if you've moved these ships out of port then they won't fire at all against attacking raids.

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Post #: 148

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/29/2017 1:54:46 PM

witpqs

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Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

The real problem you will have with Lexington IMO is fuel. Where is she going and how much fuel is there for her and her entourage?

Good catch about PH, I didn't realize they were coming in above flak. Excellent pilots against motionless targets, even that high (at least in-game) spells trouble.

Not having so many of those old BB later does change some things for you, but in the meantime is no issue. Spending all of KB's time in Hawaiian waters right now should be an issue for him, though.

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Post #: 149

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: Lowpe (J) vs obvert... - 3/29/2017 6:11:08 PM

obvert

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Joined: 1/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Side note: love the picture on the first post of the AAR. I love images like that - they give a sense of the scale of the Pacific War.

quote:

FLAK: I'm flabergasted. The last thing I want to do in this AAR is piss and moan, so I won't. I'm just completely perplexed at the ability of IJN bombers to hit PH turn after turn with seemingly lessening affects from flak. I've hit on day 2 myself as IJN and was very concerned about losses to the KB strike groups. I've hit other babes with a similar accumulation of flak guns and had some devastating results against my strike forces. This just doesn't make sense.

So. I'm going to write off the BB fleet at PH. He'll eventually sink them all if this keeps going, so I won't worry about it or mention it anymore. Just had to get it out of the way.

The only AA guns you've got at PH that can hit him are the 75mm M3 guns - they're not amazing AA guns, not by Allied standards. He's flying out of range of the 37mm M1A2 guns, which are overall better.

The 3 inch guns on the BB's and the 5 inch guns on the CL/CA's only contribute half their flak value on port attack - it's these guns in my experience that really make a mess of Japanese planes (esp the 5 inch guns) prior to the proliferation of the 20mm and 40mm AA guns, and if you've moved these ships out of port then they won't fire at all against attacking raids.

Thanks. The 3in/50 M3 AA and 3in/1918 AA aren't great, but in DBB the IJA 75mm are even decent, so it's just surprising there are virtually no flak losses happening with such regular usage and large numbers.

The big Auxiliaries all have 5in ERB or other 5 in DP guns, some with the 3in as well, and the smaller ships have the 3inch. Maybe it is the DDs and CLs that cause a lot of damage, but even on dec 10 when I had all of those ships present, the result were about 5 planes shot down from 140 + Kates striking.

Again, I'm just hoping I can count on flak from here on out. I've really noticed a difference even in stock with the latest patches, and a lot of my intended strategy will be determined by how effective flak is for the Allies. So it's just worrisome.

If I lose the BBs so be it! Jeff deserves some fun after the games he's taken on recently!!

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Post #: 150

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