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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 12:40:17 PM   
Canoerebel


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The air war has become particularly bloody of late, which has my attention.

Up until about two weeks ago, Allied pools of P-47D25 were building nicely to 180+, and those squadrons with them were performing so superbly that I had no concerns about the pools. The Jugs are beasts.

But of late there have been many bloody engagements, the most costly of which was the escort missions aimed at Mini KB near Miri. It flew at reasonable odds, but you'll recall that a squadron of Jugs and one of Mustangs got eaten alive in that role.

I have a lot of squadrons flying Jugs, and most or all are fully equipped. I have about 88 in the pool. And I have a couple of squadrons in the DEI and Thailand that I can switch to lesser aircraft, if necessary.

All that to say: I have to monitor this carefully and probably restrict Jugs to sweep roles.

The situation with all other good fighters- Corsairs, P-38s, Spit VIIIs, and P-51s - is much tighter. Those aren't options either.

I have 17 zillion Hellcats in the pools, but those cannot be used in any role except Death Star defense and defense of my main shipping base (Legaspi) against threat of KB assault. Franks and Georges destroy the Hellcats. I think Death Star is well defended even in proximity to enemy airfields due to the number of Corsairs and the sheer number of Hellcats.

So, for the foreseeable future, I see my best fighters serving mainly in sweep roles over Formosa until the 4EB reduce most or all of those airfields.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/28/2017 12:41:30 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10111
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 2:27:08 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



I feel your pain on having SAG not reacting! Part of what makes the game great.


Pakse is a fairly critical base. Kudos on taking it for next to nothing.

How are the plane losses doing daily? You mention savaging LRCAP?

Interesting force magnifier in having Miri and Manila...fuel and a relatively big shipyard. Makes me wonder about the other close by shipyards.

I got to thinking the 17 divisions you report on having in the greater Luzon area, the success of your Burma Push, the relative strength the Chinese have, and the long convoluted lines that Japan has.

My guess is you are going to go for the Islands around Okinawa, and eventually Okinawa after it has been isolated for a while. The Formosa move is simply being opportunistic/diversionary.

From Okinawa you will have complete freedom to attack the Chinese, Kyushu, Kochi, Honshu, or Korean coast; savage western Honshu Kyushu by air, move on the Japanese Islands.

All of those islands can be built up to level 4,5 or 6 runways I think.

From a Japanese viewpoint, Okinawa is more difficult to use kamikazes/land based air to defend than say Formosa.

Of course I am probably all wet.




I have found that SAGs will only react if under a patrol order.

If you're guarding a base with them give them a one hex patrol pattern in the base hex.

If you're looking for an intercept send them to the intercept point either with a 1 hex patrol pattern or a random pattern based around the target hex.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt without a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, no interception will occur.

If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt with a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, your patrol reaction range may still make the intercept happen.


This is good advice with a slight change. The developers revealed and I have successfully confirmed that the key is the "Remain on Station" order overrides the "React" setting and causes the TF to not make any intercepts. The "Retire" order does allow interceptions and obeys the "React" setting (with the usual AE random additions!). The "Patrol" order also allows intercepts and obeys the "React" setting.

As described by HansBolter, I regard the "Patrol" order plus "React" setting as the best way to make surface intercepts.

When I only want a TF to make one attempt then return to base I use "Retire" plus "React" and give a destination hex that will make it sweep through the area I want as it goes out and returns (or just returns if it's on the way in already).

Consider this part of HansBolter's post.
quote:


If you're headed for a mid-ocean intercept attempt without a patrol order and miss guess on the correct intercept hex, no interception will occur.

The most important factor is "Remain on Station" versus "Retire": if the TF has "Remain on Station" orders then no intercept will occur (unless they run into each other by chance, which happens in AE); with "Retire" orders the TF will obey the "React" range order and might intercept.

But (as HansBolter advises) using a "Patrol" order (plus a "React" range order) will give the best chance of intercept because the TF will patrol around instead of arriving and heading straight home.

_____________________________


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10112
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 2:31:37 PM   
Canoerebel


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The combat TF was set to patrol the hex but didn't engage for some reason. Its commander is a good Brit officer with very good "naval" and "aggression" ratings, but the TF didn't do a thing. Just one o' those things. Perhaps she was caught up in a fog bank while a gyro-compass went bad.

Thanks for the refresher courses, though I think I have a pretty good handle on these particular issues.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 10113
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 2:46:34 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Thankfully WitPAE was not programmed to be a strict logical recipe. Weather, timing, a commander that senses something is not right and just good ol' fate.

As Brother' Ulysses Everett McGill said "Pete, it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/28/2017 2:50:11 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10114
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 3:05:48 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The combat TF was set to patrol the hex but didn't engage for some reason. Its commander is a good Brit officer with very good "naval" and "aggression" ratings, but the TF didn't do a thing. Just one o' those things. Perhaps she was caught up in a fog bank while a gyro-compass went bad.

Thanks for the refresher courses, though I think I have a pretty good handle on these particular issues.


I too had all the settings "correct" and had even more SAGs with which to intercept. It happens.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10115
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 4:39:48 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Peep Show: For OpSec reasons, I won't disclose the original (and still possible/probable) Peep Show target. But I will say that there are three Peep Show possibilities: The original target, Formosa, and Hainan Island, and it's possible I'll hit two or all three.


I think I know which Formosa target you have in your sights but won't mention it.
Re: Hainan, I can't recall if I mentioned before but Kiungshan is the best invasion target - open terrain and .... NO Malaria!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10116
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:27:40 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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7/9/44

Dealing with the Riff-Raff: This was an inefficient and unintentional but highly effective way to do it.




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Post #: 10117
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:32:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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7/9/44

Dealing with Subs: Every sub killed merits a celebration.




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Post #: 10118
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:37:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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7/9/44

Sweep at Cotabato:




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Post #: 10119
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:48:29 PM   
jwolf

 

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Were those 16" shells that wiped out the MLs? In reading the battle of Leyte Gulf, where the US DD and DE ships charged the IJN big boys, some of the big shells passed right through, thereby doing much less damage than one would otherwise suppose. But I would guess a 16" hit would instantly obliterate an ML.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10120
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:48:51 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John has been using some Nicks lately on small raids (sweeps, I think) against Luangprabang, where they keep bumping their heads against some good Spit VIIIs.

Formosa is now loaded with fighters, but few strike aircraft. I'm thinking John is preparing for the inevitable 4EB assault, but I'm waiting to get Aparri, so that my sweeps will be at a reasonable range. (All those fighters could be kamikazes, but more likely there for CAP). Okinawa also has a lot of fighters.


It's entirely possible that he's having them on ground or airfield attack, but with drop tanks... in which case they'll fly the mission trying to bomb without having any bombs, and so they show up as "sweeping."

I've done this a lot with Beaufighters, even though it says in-game they'll fly with bombs.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10121
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:52:52 PM   
Canoerebel


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7/9/44

The Indochina Campaign:




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Post #: 10122
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 5:52:56 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John has been using some Nicks lately on small raids (sweeps, I think) against Luangprabang, where they keep bumping their heads against some good Spit VIIIs.

Formosa is now loaded with fighters, but few strike aircraft. I'm thinking John is preparing for the inevitable 4EB assault, but I'm waiting to get Aparri, so that my sweeps will be at a reasonable range. (All those fighters could be kamikazes, but more likely there for CAP). Okinawa also has a lot of fighters.


It's entirely possible that he's having them on ground or airfield attack, but with drop tanks... in which case they'll fly the mission trying to bomb without having any bombs, and so they show up as "sweeping."

I've done this a lot with Beaufighters, even though it says in-game they'll fly with bombs.


i don't think the Nick D ever flies with bombs.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 10123
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 7:19:22 PM   
Canoerebel


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7/9/44

Fun House: The Allies take Aparri, which is critical to Peep Show. Base forces and engineers will begin arriving in a day or two. The airfield isn't badly damaged, so the engineers might get it up to level 8 or 9 within a few weeks.

Now the only other thing needed to trigger Peep Show is for Bataan to fall. That may take a little while - perhaps another week or two. See map for details.






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Post #: 10124
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 7:22:30 PM   
Canoerebel


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7/9/44

Enemy aircraft destroyed at Aparri:




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Post #: 10125
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 7:44:22 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Don't forget about the several month period of no Jug production between the D25 and the N model. I may be thinking about stock tho. As always, enjoying the AAR.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10126
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 7:45:14 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Don't forget about the several month period of no Jug production between the D25 and the N model. I may be thinking about stock tho. As always, enjoying the AAR.


No, that's coming.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Post #: 10127
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 7:54:39 PM   
Canoerebel


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First I've heard of this. I'll take a look at that later.

Perhaps that's when I should plan to focus on backfilling in the DEI and a certain mission to get some of the 12 gazillion transports I've accumulated in the Philippines back to West Coast. I have so many transports tied up in the PI that there's little lift capacity left to handle West Coast and Pearl Harbor units that will be inbound to the PI. Logistics. Nightmares. Balancing. Tough.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 10128
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 8:34:44 PM   
Canoerebel


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Iowa and New Jersey both fired a few rounds of main gun ammo.


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Post #: 10129
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 8:36:56 PM   
Canoerebel


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In readings posts in another thread, I noted that some players swap out the FM1-2 Wildcats on CVEs for Hellcats.

I have a thousand Hellcats in the pools, so I could do the same. I've always had the impression that JFB's run screaming into the night, bearing machetes and bound for the AFB's place of residence bent on mayhem, whenever AFBs do that.

Do you guys think its reasonable to swap out my CVE Wildcats for Hellcats? If so, I'll do so immediately (or as soon as Death Star returns to port, which should be soon).

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10130
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 8:51:08 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In readings posts in another thread, I noted that some players swap out the FM1-2 Wildcats on CVEs for Hellcats.

I have a thousand Hellcats in the pools, so I could do the same. I've always had the impression that JFB's run screaming into the night, bearing machetes and bound for the AFB's place of residence bent on mayhem, whenever AFBs do that.

Do you guys think its reasonable to swap out my CVE Wildcats for Hellcats? If so, I'll do so immediately (or as soon as Death Star returns to port, which should be soon).


Hellcats were used on quite a few CVEs. No problems. Go for it!!

Especially in a Scen where he can put Georges on CVs.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 10131
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 10:02:31 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In readings posts in another thread, I noted that some players swap out the FM1-2 Wildcats on CVEs for Hellcats.

I have a thousand Hellcats in the pools, so I could do the same. I've always had the impression that JFB's run screaming into the night, bearing machetes and bound for the AFB's place of residence bent on mayhem, whenever AFBs do that.

Do you guys think its reasonable to swap out my CVE Wildcats for Hellcats? If so, I'll do so immediately (or as soon as Death Star returns to port, which should be soon).


Hellcats were used on quite a few CVEs. No problems. Go for it!!

Especially in a Scen where he can put Georges on CVs.

I do it without reservation!

_____________________________


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Post #: 10132
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 10:52:26 PM   
JeffroK


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The Brits flew them off their CVE's.

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Post #: 10133
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 10:57:07 PM   
BillBrown


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Without question, swap them out.

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Post #: 10134
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 11:08:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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This information hit me hard.

Tell me it's not as bad as it looks. Please.




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Post #: 10135
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 11:12:25 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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7/9/44

Another good air-loss day - about the sixth in a row.




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Post #: 10136
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/28/2017 11:19:53 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Does the Hellcat 5 model perform markedly better than the -3 model? (Please say yes, unless it's not true.)




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/29/2017 12:30:11 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This information hit me hard.

Tell me it's not as bad as it looks. Please.





Cry me a river!

You only get like 3 months of D25 Jugs production. That is why I chastised you for using them on escort duty. Would that I be so lucky!

You do get 30-40 British Jugs however a month and then that is augmented by another 40 or so Jugs II; you also get wonderful Spitfires (which you can turn into beasts if you try). There are some decent New Zealand Corsairs.

Corsairs are super tough and you should have and get lots plus their delivery vehicle make them very formidable.

You really don't have much to complain about, considering the air losses over the last week.

I think I recall your Jugs losses are pretty modest, you may simply have too many squadrons of them flying?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/29/2017 12:43:40 AM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10138
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/29/2017 12:49:35 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

7/9/44

Another good air-loss day - about the sixth in a row.





I always tell new JFB's that they need to counter the Jugs threat, and the best way to do that is to get and build the Frank A early and be willing to lose 3000 of them thru the 2nd half of 43 and the 1st half of 44.

John has got the loss part of the equation correct, but I don't think you have lost enough Jugs yet?

With respect to your Hellcat -5; I don't recall being scared of them, but relieved when I ran into them...especially sweeping with Georges. They were more than capable at shredding my strike planes though as CAP over ships.

Edit: I just noticed another 5 Nick D destroyed. I get the feeling John concentrates on one area at time, often leaving standing orders running from areas he hasn't looked at? Is that even possible? What has he lost over the last week -- 600 planes for 100 Allied?


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/29/2017 3:32:07 AM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10139
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/29/2017 6:51:20 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John has been using some Nicks lately on small raids (sweeps, I think) against Luangprabang, where they keep bumping their heads against some good Spit VIIIs.

Formosa is now loaded with fighters, but few strike aircraft. I'm thinking John is preparing for the inevitable 4EB assault, but I'm waiting to get Aparri, so that my sweeps will be at a reasonable range. (All those fighters could be kamikazes, but more likely there for CAP). Okinawa also has a lot of fighters.


It's entirely possible that he's having them on ground or airfield attack, but with drop tanks... in which case they'll fly the mission trying to bomb without having any bombs, and so they show up as "sweeping."

I've done this a lot with Beaufighters, even though it says in-game they'll fly with bombs.


i don't think the Nick D ever flies with bombs.



Well, the Nick-D is a night fighter, so...

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10140
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