RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/18/2017 10:48:48 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Rio and I have been discussing this attack, just the strategy of it, and how he has been planing this since day one. However he let slip the fact that he has taken precautions to guard against the KB. He said that we could discuss that latter or after the war. But I think we can pretty much figure it out. Pax alluded to it earlier, that he may load his ships with fighters. If you look at the CVE Prince William above, she had all fighters.

Which means that you are correct in that he is more vulnerable to surface attacks.

It doesn't confirm the guess about the fighter loads, as at this point having your CVE's overstocked with fighters for re-stocking the CV's would be prudent. But, he is getting a lot of advice. he has a sharp edge in number of posts and I have noted some very good player names there.

Just remember; every tactic in the game has a counter. In this aspect, it is all about intel. You need to consider what he might do, how you would counter, AND how will you detect what tactic he is using so that you employ the correct counter.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1141

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/18/2017 11:38:38 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Rio and I have been discussing this attack, just the strategy of it, and how he has been planing this since day one. However he let slip the fact that he has taken precautions to guard against the KB. He said that we could discuss that latter or after the war. But I think we can pretty much figure it out. Pax alluded to it earlier, that he may load his ships with fighters. If you look at the CVE Prince William above, she had all fighters.

Which means that you are correct in that he is more vulnerable to surface attacks.

It doesn't confirm the guess about the fighter loads, as at this point having your CVE's overstocked with fighters for re-stocking the CV's would be prudent. But, he is getting a lot of advice. he has a sharp edge in number of posts and I have noted some very good player names there.

Just remember; every tactic in the game has a counter. In this aspect, it is all about intel. You need to consider what he might do, how you would counter, AND how will you detect what tactic he is using so that you employ the correct counter.

If you check my AAR with Jocke, you can see how I countered an invasion force comprised of a heavily fighter based Carrier escort with surprisingly light Japanese forces. It can be done! Planning and Recon! Page 106 (shameless plug

)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/18/2017 11:52:06 AM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1142

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/18/2017 5:04:10 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Rio and I have been discussing this attack, just the strategy of it, and how he has been planing this since day one. However he let slip the fact that he has taken precautions to guard against the KB. He said that we could discuss that latter or after the war. But I think we can pretty much figure it out. Pax alluded to it earlier, that he may load his ships with fighters. If you look at the CVE Prince William above, she had all fighters.

Which means that you are correct in that he is more vulnerable to surface attacks.

It doesn't confirm the guess about the fighter loads, as at this point having your CVE's overstocked with fighters for re-stocking the CV's would be prudent. But, he is getting a lot of advice. he has a sharp edge in number of posts and I have noted some very good player names there.

Just remember; every tactic in the game has a counter. In this aspect, it is all about intel. You need to consider what he might do, how you would counter, AND how will you detect what tactic he is using so that you employ the correct counter.

If you check my AAR with Jocke, you can see how I countered an invasion force comprised of a heavily fighter based Carrier escort with surprisingly light Japanese forces. It can be done! Planning and Recon! Page 106 (shameless plug)

Not shameless at all. He needs your references ... you're about the only PBEM consultant he has against the +8 that Rio has in his thread.
I don't have as much advice about tactics as AI and PBEM really differ there.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1143

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 10:04:32 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

It doesn't confirm the guess about the fighter loads, as at this point having your CVE's overstocked with fighters for re-stocking the CV's would be prudent.

You are correct, I should not make this assumption.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1144

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 10:07:47 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

If you check my AAR with Jocke, you can see how I countered an invasion force comprised of a heavily fighter based Carrier escort with surprisingly light Japanese forces. It can be done! Planning and Recon! Page 106 (shameless plug)

Not shameless at all. He needs your references ... you're about the only PBEM consultant he has against the +8 that Rio has in his thread.
I don't have as much advice about tactics as AI and PBEM really differ there.

I agree 100%. The ironic part is that your AAR is the only one you do not need to plug as it is one on which I keep-up, I left off at page 105 a couple of days ago.

It is a great game and your AARs are very informative. Can I assume that you are talking about the Kodiak invasion and the CL Yubari (not at Rabaul)? Thanks for the photos of the settings, just what I need.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1145

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 10:08:55 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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PACIFIC Jun 30, 1943 Turn 571

Recon the hard way, but look what they found.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1146

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 10:09:56 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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PRODUCTION Jun 30, 1943 Turn 571

The Frank A is in production and one unit upgraded and filling-out.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1147

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 11:07:20 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
Thanks for the photos of the settings, just what I need.
[/size]

That "Low" threat setting triggers how quickly Japan retreats depending upon the relative strength of the fleets. Very important...it doesn't mean that they will run and turn tail and avoid engagements. It does mean that your ships are very likely to live to fight another day usually after delivering a Long Lance attack.

"Safer, Safest" lets your ships react away from air threats...it is interesting that this normally only occurs in the 2nd movement phase...so for example if you were close enough (within 7-9 hexes) you can flank speed run to where you expect enemy carriers to be for a night time engagement, and then they will hopefully react into them...if not, and you have some DL, they will react away at flank speed from the air threat.

Of course this depends also on commander aggressiveness.

Care needs to be taken in using them...you can see their impact in course selection and sometimes this will give you some more intel to make decisions. If blindly used, the ships can select super strange routes that will run them out of fuel.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1148

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 11:57:12 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

Thanks again.

I've looked at the Manual and the Game Data Base. I have read about the effects of the Long Lance.

How can I tell if the ship is carrying these? Are they a specific model?

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1149

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 12:54:27 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
Thanks for the photos of the settings, just what I need.
[/size]

That "Low" threat setting triggers how quickly Japan retreats depending upon the relative strength of the fleets. Very important...it doesn't mean that they will run and turn tail and avoid engagements. It does mean that your ships are very likely to live to fight another day usually after delivering a Long Lance attack.

"Safer, Safest" lets your ships react away from air threats...it is interesting that this normally only occurs in the 2nd movement phase...so for example if you were close enough (within 7-9 hexes) you can flank speed run to where you expect enemy carriers to be for a night time engagement, and then they will hopefully react into them...if not, and you have some DL, they will react away at flank speed from the air threat.

Of course this depends also on commander aggressiveness.

Care needs to be taken in using them...you can see their impact in course selection and sometimes this will give you some more intel to make decisions. If blindly used, the ships can select super strange routes that will run them out of fuel.

In addition to this, it can also bite the Allies. About the only serious success I had in 1945 in opposing a major Allied invasion came when I got some DD's in amongst the Allied CV fleet during the night.

While the actual combat was solidly inconclusive, the Allied settings ended up causing the Allied CV's to decide to return home. Cue daybreak, when massed Japanese air power could strike at a vastly reduced CAP.

It's well worth the risk of the smaller ships (MGBs, MTB's, SC, PB, E) in small single or double ship TF's to try and infiltrate the Allies zone of operations, just to disrupt operations. Given the limited area of operation, even if you don't sink anything, you're making the Allied ships burn up OPS points.

I'd save the actual warships for more serious ventures, however.

Given the particulars of your current situation, I'd see if you couldn't disrupt landing operations. Even if you don't actually sink anything, you'll be making his warships use up fuel and ammo, and eating up their OPS points.

The E-class type ships in particular get a hounarble mention from me, in this role. While they're dead meat to any frontline Allied ships, they carry 12cm guns for the most part, and if they run in to a Allied amphib TF, they can do respectable work. I even recall a few engagements where the E's put some nice holes in CVE's.

Something worth thinking about, at any rate.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1150

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 1:30:18 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

M-M is referring to the time honored and proven tactic of Holistic Japan.

You cannot rely upon one off attacks...Japan's units all have to work together.

But rather...plentiful night naval search, surface raiders, night aerial naval attacks, mines, midgets, CD and DP guns, on the beach art/eng/inf/aa/hq/inf, forts, daytime aerial search, heavily escorted attacks set to different ranges and altitudes, big targeted kb strike, hefty LRCAP traps, I and R boats, etc., etc., etc.

The base has to hold...to bleed the Allies...to engage their surface ships after they bombarded...to send the KB in around on a fish hook to devastate retreating ships and the line of supply...oilers/merchants ready to refuel after a flank run. To strike a depleted deathstar or ships landing reinforcements or supplies.

Reserve troops ready to be flown in (rarely if CVs are present) or fast transported in. Counter invasion.

Think what you could have accomplished at the Marianas if your ground troops held for 10 days. A month.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1151

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/19/2017 1:53:01 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M is referring to the time honored and proven tactic of Holistic Japan. You cannot rely upon one off attacks...Japan's units all have to work together.

But rather...plentiful night naval search, surface raiders, night aerial naval attacks, mines, midgets, CD and DP guns, on the beach art/eng/inf/aa/hq/inf, forts, daytime aerial search, heavily escorted attacks set to different ranges and altitudes, big targeted kb strike, hefty LRCAP traps, I and R boats, etc., etc., etc.

The base has to hold...to bleed the Allies...to engage their surface ships after they bombarded...to send the KB in around on a fish hook to devastate retreating ships and the line of supply...oilers/merchants ready to refuel after a flank run. To strike a depleted deathstar or ships landing reinforcements or supplies.

Reserve troops ready to be flown in (rarely if CVs are present) or fast transported in. Counter invasion.

Think what you could have accomplished at the Marianas if your ground troops held for 10 days. A month.

Holistic Japan, I like that. Succinct way of describing the concept.

I think the key component of any successful Japanese defence is that the defenders need to hold out for longer than a week. It just opens up so much more scope for counter strikes from Japan, as well as making the initial invasion that much more demanding.

My rule of thumb is that any base you want to defend should be held by enough troops that would require at least two Allied divisions to take. This basically means that the Allies need to mount a massive operation for every invasion - there are no cheap moves.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1152

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/20/2017 1:39:07 AM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

Type 93 Torpedo is the Long Lance, most of those dropped by torpedo planes is the Type 91

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1153

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/21/2017 12:53:44 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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Thanks Lowpe and MM.

This is some great stuff and I hope to use it. I was going to say, use it soon, but apparently Rio has left the room.

My recon was a little week the last couple of days as I was switching units and getting recon subs back into place so I was not sure, but it looks like the Betty intercept above was the whole enchilada moving back.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 1154

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/21/2017 12:54:37 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Type 93 Torpedo is the Long Lance, most of those dropped by torpedo planes is the Type 91

Thanks Bif1961. That will help me sort some ships.

And welcome.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 1155

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/21/2017 12:56:04 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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PACIFIC Jul 1, 1943 Turn 572

Tough ship, but Rio confirmed that she went down.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1156

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/21/2017 2:25:49 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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PACIFIC Jul 2, 1943 Turn 573

Subs gone also. Interesting.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1157

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/21/2017 2:07:02 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M is referring to the time honored and proven tactic of Holistic Japan. You cannot rely upon one off attacks...Japan's units all have to work together.

But rather...plentiful night naval search, surface raiders, night aerial naval attacks, mines, midgets, CD and DP guns, on the beach art/eng/inf/aa/hq/inf, forts, daytime aerial search, heavily escorted attacks set to different ranges and altitudes, big targeted kb strike, hefty LRCAP traps, I and R boats, etc., etc., etc.

The base has to hold...to bleed the Allies...to engage their surface ships after they bombarded...to send the KB in around on a fish hook to devastate retreating ships and the line of supply...oilers/merchants ready to refuel after a flank run. To strike a depleted deathstar or ships landing reinforcements or supplies.

Reserve troops ready to be flown in (rarely if CVs are present) or fast transported in. Counter invasion.

Think what you could have accomplished at the Marianas if your ground troops held for 10 days. A month.

+1

read PzB's AAR ... required reading for all players. He illustrated most of these quire well in his game against Andy Mac ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1158

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/21/2017 2:09:29 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M is referring to the time honored and proven tactic of Holistic Japan. You cannot rely upon one off attacks...Japan's units all have to work together.

But rather...plentiful night naval search, surface raiders, night aerial naval attacks, mines, midgets, CD and DP guns, on the beach art/eng/inf/aa/hq/inf, forts, daytime aerial search, heavily escorted attacks set to different ranges and altitudes, big targeted kb strike, hefty LRCAP traps, I and R boats, etc., etc., etc.

The base has to hold...to bleed the Allies...to engage their surface ships after they bombarded...to send the KB in around on a fish hook to devastate retreating ships and the line of supply...oilers/merchants ready to refuel after a flank run. To strike a depleted deathstar or ships landing reinforcements or supplies.

Reserve troops ready to be flown in (rarely if CVs are present) or fast transported in. Counter invasion.

Think what you could have accomplished at the Marianas if your ground troops held for 10 days. A month.

Holistic Japan, I like that. Succinct way of describing the concept.

I think the key component of any successful Japanese defence is that the defenders need to hold out for longer than a week. It just opens up so much more scope for counter strikes from Japan, as well as making the initial invasion that much more demanding.

My rule of thumb is that any base you want to defend should be held by enough troops that would require at least two Allied divisions to take. This basically means that the Allies need to mount a massive operation for every invasion - there are no cheap moves.

That doesn't mean the original defenders holding a week. They only need to hold on until your reinforcements arrive ... if done right, that can be 3 days ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1159

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/22/2017 1:51:55 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Re-read PzB's AAR ... required reading for all players. He illustrated most of these quire well in his game against Andy Mac ...

Thanks.

I read this long ago and you are right, an excellent AAR. I have dredged it up again. As you know, every time you re-read an AAR you learn hundreds of new things.

A hint of what I am up to in the next few turns is on his page two.

< Message edited by el lobo -- 5/22/2017 1:52:26 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1160

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/23/2017 11:47:35 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M is referring to the time honored and proven tactic of Holistic Japan. You cannot rely upon one off attacks...Japan's units all have to work together.

But rather...plentiful night naval search, surface raiders, night aerial naval attacks, mines, midgets, CD and DP guns, on the beach art/eng/inf/aa/hq/inf, forts, daytime aerial search, heavily escorted attacks set to different ranges and altitudes, big targeted kb strike, hefty LRCAP traps, I and R boats, etc., etc., etc.

The base has to hold...to bleed the Allies...to engage their surface ships after they bombarded...to send the KB in around on a fish hook to devastate retreating ships and the line of supply...oilers/merchants ready to refuel after a flank run. To strike a depleted deathstar or ships landing reinforcements or supplies.

Reserve troops ready to be flown in (rarely if CVs are present) or fast transported in. Counter invasion.

Think what you could have accomplished at the Marianas if your ground troops held for 10 days. A month.

+1

read PzB's AAR ... required reading for all players. He illustrated most of these quire well in his game against Andy Mac ...

He also illustrated how to run out of supply as Japan quite well also.

A bit of critical evaluation is always needed with AAR'd games.

Pzb was talented at swinging amazing reverses on the Allies, but doing so actually forced him to concede his games on most (or all? it's been years) of the games. That was simply the price of him rushing the KB and shipping around all corners of the map.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1161

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/24/2017 2:51:13 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

M-M is referring to the time honored and proven tactic of Holistic Japan. You cannot rely upon one off attacks...Japan's units all have to work together.

But rather...plentiful night naval search, surface raiders, night aerial naval attacks, mines, midgets, CD and DP guns, on the beach art/eng/inf/aa/hq/inf, forts, daytime aerial search, heavily escorted attacks set to different ranges and altitudes, big targeted kb strike, hefty LRCAP traps, I and R boats, etc., etc., etc.

The base has to hold...to bleed the Allies...to engage their surface ships after they bombarded...to send the KB in around on a fish hook to devastate retreating ships and the line of supply...oilers/merchants ready to refuel after a flank run. To strike a depleted deathstar or ships landing reinforcements or supplies.

Reserve troops ready to be flown in (rarely if CVs are present) or fast transported in. Counter invasion.

Think what you could have accomplished at the Marianas if your ground troops held for 10 days. A month.

+1

read PzB's AAR ... required reading for all players. He illustrated most of these quire well in his game against Andy Mac ...

He also illustrated how to run out of supply as Japan quite well also.

A bit of critical evaluation is always needed with AAR'd games.

Pzb was talented at swinging amazing reverses on the Allies, but doing so actually forced him to concede his games on most (or all? it's been years) of the games. That was simply the price of him rushing the KB and shipping around all corners of the map.

Please remember that at that time, the supply production was being "tweeked". One of the reasons for the AAR was to validate a number of economic changes. We can never know if his economy would have survived with the current settings, but that does not impact his strategic and tactical brilliance.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1162

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/28/2017 7:24:29 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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PACIFIC Jul 5, 1943 Turn 576

I have more than an dozen Es here, more on the the way a la MM, and using settings a la Lowpe, I am going to get some practice.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 5/28/2017 7:28:31 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1163

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/28/2017 7:30:43 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

CHINA Jul 6, 1943 Turn 577

Finally China is fun again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 186670 troops, 1820 guns, 1361 vehicles, Assault Value = 6934

Defending force 87538 troops, 77 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2669

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 5428

Allied adjusted defense: 1699

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chengtu !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
26610 casualties reported
Squads: 100 destroyed, 2957 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 208 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 217 disabled
Guns lost 272 (2 destroyed, 270 disabled)
Vehicles lost 116 (1 destroyed, 115 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
53399 casualties reported
Squads: 3787 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3486 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 18 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 77 (77 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 34

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by el lobo -- 5/28/2017 7:35:31 AM >

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1164

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/28/2017 11:54:15 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
Finally China is fun again

Make the most of the month before all those LCUs be back in Chungking.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 1165

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/28/2017 1:38:37 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo
Finally China is fun again

Make the most of the month before all those LCUs be back in Chungking.

+1

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 1166

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/29/2017 7:34:46 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

Have the Allied fleet escaped the Marianas already?

That was your golden occasion to drive a decisive battle on favorable terms...

You can still do a lot.

Bombard the occupied Marianas, attack the remaining shipping there... waiting for the expected reinforcements to come back.

Even if Rio is enjoying of air land based air support now there, your numbers are still enough to muster an offensive.

You could even plan for counter invasion of the occupied islands.

That's not the end of the tale there!

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1167

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/29/2017 1:05:33 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

I would tend to disagree ... now that he has a forward sub base (Guam) and active air fields, Marianas are a trap for you. venturing there will only prove more costly to you than he ... and he took multiple islands, so very difficult to contemplate any form of reaction counter attack. I would need 24 ID's (6 per island roughly) to go back with the entire Kaigun and the entire IJ air forces. Losses would be high in doing so ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 1168

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/29/2017 3:07:30 PM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

I would consider at least the counter invasion of one of the islands, to start with. All the Kaigun present? Well, as default. He's coming back soon , seemingly.

Sub threat, a pain, but reciprocal. And, we also could and should have our ASW squadrons and flottillas roaming and make feeling their impact around.

To retrench just so and trailing after his initiative, for me is not a likely option at this stage of the war.

I think that a hard and protracted air campaign won't be sustained easily by Rio there, and that we still hold logistical advantages in an air attrition engagement in the Marianas situation being, as preparation to a possible counter invasion - of one island at least - and a major naval clash is more than ever looming in the area.

So many variables... the strength and size of air bases around, Truk, Babeldaob, Bonins, Pagan and remaining Marianas.

Mine warfare was somehow underplayed by El Lobo I think, in previous round.

That was only the first round! Rio has to keep the ring for some many more, in following few months, granted that Lobo takes up the challenge.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1169

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 5/29/2017 6:51:50 PM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Rio and I have been discussing this attack, just the strategy of it, and how he has been planing this since day one. However he let slip the fact that he has taken precautions to guard against the KB. He said that we could discuss that latter or after the war. But I think we can pretty much figure it out. Pax alluded to it earlier, that he may load his ships with fighters. If you look at the CVE Prince William above, she had all fighters.

Which means that you are correct in that he is more vulnerable to surface attacks.

It doesn't confirm the guess about the fighter loads, as at this point having your CVE's overstocked with fighters for re-stocking the CV's would be prudent. But, he is getting a lot of advice. he has a sharp edge in number of posts and I have noted some very good player names there.

Just remember; every tactic in the game has a counter. In this aspect, it is all about intel. You need to consider what he might do, how you would counter, AND how will you detect what tactic he is using so that you employ the correct counter.

If you check my AAR with Jocke, you can see how I countered an invasion force comprised of a heavily fighter based Carrier escort with surprisingly light Japanese forces. It can be done! Planning and Recon! Page 106 (shameless plug)

Not shameless at all. He needs your references ... you're about the only PBEM consultant he has against the +8 that Rio has in his thread.
I don't have as much advice about tactics as AI and PBEM really differ there.

You raise a good point Pax. I have read both AARs in this game, which is why I have not posted anything in either AAR. In general, this game and the two AARs demonstrates that allied AARs receive much more care and attention from the AFBs than Japanese-side AARs receive from those familiar with the Japanese position. For Japanese players, you and Lowpe are about the only ones who make a habit of chiming in with helpful tips and advice.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 5/29/2017 6:52:54 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 1170

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