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RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 1:53:03 PM

VPaulus

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Well, the CPU Intel i5 3450, was released on the 2nd quarter of 2012.

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 31

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 2:14:45 PM

Yogi the Great

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VPaulus

Well, the CPU Intel i5 3450, was released on the 2nd quarter of 2012.

Ok I was a year off, but thanks

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Post #: 32

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 2:15:02 PM

Qwixt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

While it can still play the majority of my current games, it does struggle with things like the total War games

In my experience when they are released, Total War games were built for 2030 hardware

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Post #: 33

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 2:24:01 PM

Yogi the Great

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When I purchased the computer it was pretty close to the top of the line other than maybe the graphics ability. Dell has seemed to lose some of their luster since and a lot of their market share. I did some "customizing of PC's on several sites as pat of this exploration and it seems companies like Dell, HP, Acer etc. price wise struggle trying to match prices with say CyberpowerPC or Digital Storm.

Seems you can find a lot of negative reviews on almost any company these days.

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Post #: 34

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 3:10:40 PM

stuart3

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There is no reason why a third gen i5 shouldn't play current games if it is paired with the right components (I'm using a 2nd gen i5 with a GTX970). If your "total crashes" are due simply to the system being asked to handle more than it was designed to be capable of because games have become bigger and better, then all you really need is a better graphics card. Of course that will probably need a more powerful PSU, but a HD7570 is not a powerful card.

Adding a SSD will cure the long loading times. In theory, 8Gb should be enough to play any game, but you have probably picked up several programs that are running in the background and eating into that 8Gb, so an upgrade to 16Gb could help.

If all you really want is to be able to play current games, then a new PC sounds like it could be an extravagance.

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Post #: 35

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 3:48:57 PM

stuart3

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Check out this comparison of the HD7570 with modern graphics cards and you will see where your main problem lies.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+7570

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Post #: 36

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 4:28:21 PM

ernieschwitz

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I had an interesting conversation on the topic of new computers. Depending on your computer you may actually get less performance on newer machines than older ones. Especially with games that only use one core. Which would be most IGUGO type games. If that is your thing, I recommend not looking at the number of cores, but only at the clock-speed (the GHz), and maybe number of threads = number of cores (unsure about this)...

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Post #: 37

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 4:52:24 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuart3

There is no reason why a third gen i5 shouldn't play current games if it is paired with the right components (I'm using a 2nd gen i5 with a GTX970). If your "total crashes" are due simply to the system being asked to handle more than it was designed to be capable of because games have become bigger and better, then all you really need is a better graphics card. Of course that will probably need a more powerful PSU, but a HD7570 is not a powerful card.

Adding a SSD will cure the long loading times. In theory, 8Gb should be enough to play any game, but you have probably picked up several programs that are running in the background and eating into that 8Gb, so an upgrade to 16Gb could help.

If all you really want is to be able to play current games, then a new PC sounds like it could be an extravagance.

The motherboard and memory you use also helps significantly with performance. It's not a one off deal, it's the total package. It's like sticking a two barrel carb on a high performance engine. Strangle the throughput and it just chugs along.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 5/26/2017 4:53:34 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 4:53:02 PM

stuart3

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quote:

Especially with games that only use one core. Which would be most IGUGO type games.

That's the traditional situation. Many games use only one core, and few use more than two. But DirectX 12, Mantle, and Vulkan are making it easier and more efficient to spread the load across multiple cores. AMD have launched their Ryzen range on the premise that future games will utilise all available cores and so the number of cores available will outweigh clock speed. Hyperthreading, and AMD's equivalent treats each physical core as two virtual ones, thereby effectively doubling the number of cores available. It probably won't yet affect Matrix, but AMD expect several existing AAA titles to be patched to take advantage of this.

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Post #: 39

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 4:54:37 PM

stuart3

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quote:

The motherboard and memory you use also helps significantly with performance. It's not a one off deal, it's the total package.

Also the total price.

(in reply to stuart3)

Post #: 40

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 5:24:41 PM

zakblood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

When I purchased the computer it was pretty close to the top of the line other than maybe the graphics ability. Dell has seemed to lose some of their luster since and a lot of their market share. I did some "customizing of PC's on several sites as pat of this exploration and it seems companies like Dell, HP, Acer etc. price wise struggle trying to match prices with say CyberpowerPC or Digital Storm.

Seems you can find a lot of negative reviews on almost any company these days.

some people tend to moan at almost anything now days, it doesn't work because of a card came loose in transit etc, some driver was missing, mostly really basic stuff that most should be able to solve on their own or by one email or phone call, so not a biggy for me.

just choose one with the best support and warranty, pick a budget and either build your own, or get one built for you, tends to be better than off the shelf stuff i've always found, if you say a budget i'll spec you one if you like and then you can compare and take it elsewhere and see if one matches, either reply or PM if you like

(in reply to Yogi the Great)

Post #: 41

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/26/2017 7:51:43 PM

Rosseau

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I have yet to have a Dell die on me, but in the past had to replace power supply and fan to handle a card upgrade. If Best Buy does it for you (that's me), you pay a lot.

Latest two-year-old computer is Dell XPS i7 3.6ghz and 16 ram (good), but GTX 745 card (not so good). But it was $800 delivered (no monitor) so couldn't pass it up.

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 42

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 2:08:08 PM

ernieschwitz

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My comment about threads is that I don't know if the number of threads in a single processor makes the games using only one core slower. That is if there are more threads than 1 pr. core. I'd honestly love to know.

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 43

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 2:34:27 PM

zakblood

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

My comment about threads is that I don't know if the number of threads in a single processor makes the games using only one core slower. That is if there are more threads than 1 pr. core. I'd honestly love to know.

https://www.lifewire.com/multiple-core-processors-832453

or an older guide, but still correct

https://www.maketecheasier.com/cpus-core-count-vs-clock-speed/

< Message edited by zakblood -- 5/27/2017 2:37:23 PM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 2:50:35 PM

Qwixt

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This thread is starting to get some misinformation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stuart3

quote:

Especially with games that only use one core. Which would be most IGUGO type games.

That's the traditional situation. Many games use only one core, and few use more than two. But DirectX 12, Mantle, and Vulkan are making it easier and more efficient to spread the load across multiple cores.

People have been saying this for at least 10-15 years.

Many newer games (64-bit) are starting to use over 8 gig of memory. I would not build or buy a gaming rig these days with 8 gig of memory.

Multithreaded performance vs single thread performance is all dependent on the processor itself, and its single thread rating.

So if you look at this for the 7700k (top 4-core intel cpu these days?), and the Ryzen 1800x

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7700K+%40+4.20GHz&id=2874

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+1800X&id=2966

You will see the intel has a single thread rating of 2586, and the ryzen has a single thread rating of 1955. But if you look at the CPU rating on this cart, you will all the higher # core processors rated very high due to how the benchmark rates stuff. Because video processing and compression for these higher # core CPUs basically kick the 4-core or 2-core equivalent, they get a very high rating, which is why this benchmark includes single thread rating.

Hyper threading divides one physical core into 2 logical cores. The only way I can simply describe this is like when you partition one hard drive into two logical drives as seen by the OS. When you think about it, it becomes apparent that you cannot use both logical devices at the exact same time, and that they must share because there is only one physical device to do the work. Where the efficiency and performance enhancement comes in, is when one logical core is waiting to do something, then the other can kick in and do some work. Wait 1, Work 2, Wait 2, Work 1,...

Generally speaking most games use 1 or 2 threads, maybe 3. There are a few games out there that use more, but are rare. The reason for lower numbers of threads in applications/games is not because of lazy developers. Multithreaded programming is more difficult and higher risk. As a programmer, you need to assess where you can run two or more distinct separable things and execute them. If those things share resources that can be changed, you must protect those resources so that only one thread can access them. Otherwise, you can end up with errors in data, processing, and/or deadlocks. Then generally speaking, if you do all that right, you must somehow sync them up, so that the main thread can get an answer or status on what the thread was doing.

So if you think developers are going to magically start writing 6 to 10 threaded games, it's highly unlikely. Some style of games lend themselves to more threads than others. But it's real easy to see two threads at the beginning, one for AI and the other for graphical display. Therein lies the base number of threads for games. But even that might not make sense for some games.

< Message edited by Qwixt -- 5/27/2017 4:17:04 PM >

(in reply to stuart3)

Post #: 45

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 7:18:48 PM

Aurelian

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Galactic Civilizations 3: Crusades is now using multi-core as of the Ludicrous update:

To that end, Crusade includes the first core-neutral AI engine for the genre.

"What core-neutral AI means is that the game will use all the CPU cores you have no matter how few or how many are on your PC," said Wardell. We found that a large percentage of our players have at least 4 CPU cores and many have 6 or more. This meant we could, literally, cut down turn times by a factor of 8 to 12 depending on the CPU. This matters because anyone who plays these types of games know that the late game can slow to a halt. It also allowed us to develop a substantially more intelligent series of computer opponents as well as create a more life-like background simulation that the players tap into."

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Post #: 46

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 9:57:01 PM

stuart3

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I was surprised myself, but I have read this info from three or four different sources, and they all say that multi-core gaming is a central plank of AMD's CPU marketing policy and that Ryzen CPUs have been designed with that specifically in mind. AMD should know what they are talking about.

I also see that Stardock have also taken advantage of the speed increase from multi-core to double the size of the map area in Galactic Civilizations 3. Multi-core is going to have lots of nice implications.

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Post #: 47

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 10:58:34 PM

Qwixt

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Yep, I think Stardock is like the best or most progressive game developer at fully utilizing all cores in their newer games. I think it's a big reason why AMD partnered with them for Ashes of the Singularity. I think Ashes of the Singularity was even the first game benchmark for dx12.

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Post #: 48

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 11:53:04 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwixt

Yep, I think Stardock is like the best or most progressive game developer at fully utilizing all cores in their newer games. I think it's a big reason why AMD partnered with them for Ashes of the Singularity. I think Ashes of the Singularity was even the first game benchmark for dx12.

IIRC, the developer of that GC3 has a 10 core proc. I have Ashes, just haven't played lately.

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Post #: 49

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/27/2017 11:58:50 PM

Rosseau

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Core-neutral AI doesn't necessarily mean a better AI, just faster processing. Never had slowdowns with GalCiv3, but never liked it much either.

Makes it even more amazing what Grigsby and others did with 64k back in the day. I really don't see dramatically improved AI in most games regardless of the hardware improvements?

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Post #: 50

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/28/2017 10:14:04 AM

demyansk

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I have a i7 from 2009 but a 1070 card, I play every game out there.

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Post #: 51

RE: Computer information and advice - 5/29/2017 3:19:37 PM

PipFromSlitherine

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Another major threading issue with strategy games is that they often have very large working sets, which means that you can very quickly run out of cache memory for each core, at which point you bottleneck back to the speed with which the CPU can bring data in and out of your main RAM. And example of attempting to avoid this is the 256K of embedded memory for the SPEs on the PS3.

Ryzen has comparable single-core performance to Intel, after AMD's mistaken belief that core were going to be more important than straight-line speed led them to create the ill-fated Bulldozer architecture.

Cheers

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Post #: 52

RE: Computer information and advice - 6/5/2017 4:37:40 PM

zakblood

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http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

steam stats may 2017, more info for just about everything and a good read for anyone who wants an upgrade or a totally new pc

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 6/5/2017 4:38:39 PM >

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Post #: 53

RE: Computer information and advice - 6/8/2017 1:23:09 AM

Mobius

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What a pain it is getting a new computer. And I got 2 of them.
The mail program setup is all new. Why change something that should be simple.
The menu hieroglyphics have all changed. From one set of incomprehensible symbols to another.
It is Dell Alienware so there you go.

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Post #: 54

RE: Computer information and advice - 8/26/2017 1:00:38 AM

Lourdesman

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I just want to throw in my two cents and I am talking from a budget viewpoint. I have a Intel 4560 chip 7th gen lowest end kaby lake. Paired with a 1050 TI 240 gig SSD and win 7 so I can play SOW Gettysburg and WITP AE and a few other older games that need win 7. Very Snappy and very happy with what I am using. Just remember win 7 isn't getting any security updates on kaby lake or higher chip sets. (Microsoft those SOB's). Depending on what you play... an I5 and and a 1060 6 gb should last you a good 5 years if not 10 if your just talking a dedicated matrix games and general purpose machine. And skip a HD and get an SSD

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Post #: 55

RE: Computer information and advice - 8/27/2017 1:18:17 AM

demyansk

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Zakk, that info is on Steam? Do you remember the location?

Thanks

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Post #: 56

RE: Computer information and advice - 8/27/2017 7:04:41 PM

warspite1

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Since a load of updates were done on my Windows 10 machine recently, I cannot read PDF manuals in Microsoft Edge.

Previously I could click on any manual link in a game main menu and the document would appear in Microsoft Edge. Now when I click on the link, the program comes up but with a blank, grey screen. Does anyone know what I would need to do so this works again please?

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