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August 1941 - 5/20/2017 5:28:11 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 10, 21th august 1941

Well, Stelteck is methodically destroying my PzIIIJ plant in north Berlin and I haven't find the way to stop him...



Leningrad

Before my moves



Usual way. I hit the backdoor. The 31 CV stack behind the Neva will be a harder nut.

Moscowr

Russians managed to fully reopen the corridor



This time, they won't escape. Moscow 50 miles ahead... still 7 weeks of clear weather



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/6/2018 6:34:37 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 31
August 1941 - 5/20/2017 5:34:43 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		South

Before my moves. Stelteck wants to hold the Dniepr bend.



That's fine.



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/6/2018 6:36:00 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 32
RE: August 1941 - 5/20/2017 9:00:05 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 10, 21th august 1941

Well, Stelteck is methodically destroying my PzIIIJ plant in north Berlin and I haven't find the way to stop him...






Where is your airbase with at least 2-4 fighter squadrons on it? Is that your airbase at Magdeburg? I would put an Airbase with one HQ at Brandenburg to cover both areas being bombed.

_____________________________


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Post #: 33
RE: August 1941 - 5/20/2017 9:43:20 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
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From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Where is your airbase with at least 2-4 fighter squadrons on it? Is that your airbase at Magdeburg? I would put an Airbase with one HQ at Brandenburg to cover both areas being bombed.

I've set an airbase in Berlin with 3 squads but without HQ... and only daily missions.

I will improve my efficiency!

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 34
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 1:40:32 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Where is your airbase with at least 2-4 fighter squadrons on it? Is that your airbase at Magdeburg? I would put an Airbase with one HQ at Brandenburg to cover both areas being bombed.

I've set an airbase in Berlin with 3 squads but without HQ... and only daily missions.

I will improve my efficiency!



I would set the fighters to both day and night missions to be safe.

_____________________________


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Post #: 35
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 2:19:18 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Where is your airbase with at least 2-4 fighter squadrons on it? Is that your airbase at Magdeburg? I would put an Airbase with one HQ at Brandenburg to cover both areas being bombed.

I've set an airbase in Berlin with 3 squads but without HQ... and only daily missions.

I will improve my efficiency!



I would set the fighters to both day and night missions to be safe.


So 2-4 Fighter Squadrons set to a single HQ set to day and night mission, I would use the BF-110's since you are only going after bombers ;) Set them between the area the Russian player is attacking. I would also bring a couple of HQs back (like the RHQ or any extra HQ that you have) stack some AA in that HQ. Something like 6-10 AA units in each HQ and put one in Berlin and one in Madgeburg. Fire for effect :)

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Post #: 36
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 5:03:15 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I would also bring a couple of HQs back (like the RHQ or any extra HQ that you have) stack some AA in that HQ. Something like 6-10 AA units in each HQ and put one in Berlin and one in Madgeburg.


Just remember that the Soviet bombers fly at just short of 30.000 feet, so remember to use heavy AA units with 88mm guns.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 37
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 5:24:34 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I would also bring a couple of HQs back (like the RHQ or any extra HQ that you have) stack some AA in that HQ. Something like 6-10 AA units in each HQ and put one in Berlin and one in Madgeburg.


Just remember that the Soviet bombers fly at just short of 30.000 feet, so remember to use heavy AA units with 88mm guns.


I made an assumption that was a given on the 88's but thank you for pointing that out :-} The Bf-110's ceiling should be around 34,000ish (I believe the 109 is around 36,000ish) So no problem on ceiling height vs the Soviet bombers. Personally I just like the BF-110 because it carries a bigger punch with (2) 20mm and (4) 7.92 vs the 109's (1) 15mm & (2) 7.92. You don't have to be a nimble fighter fighting bombers, just carry a bigger BAT ;-P I'm interested to see if the fighters intercept now if this is put into action. I will be waiting to find out ;)

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Post #: 38
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 7:13:18 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Personally I just like the BF-110 because it carries a bigger punch with (2) 20mm and (4) 7.92 vs the 109's (1) 15mm & (2) 7.92. You don't have to be a nimble fighter fighting bombers, just carry a bigger BAT ;-P I'm interested to see if the fighters intercept now if this is put into action. I will be waiting to find out ;)


I did some calcualtions based on the limited information present in the manual, where I tried to figure out the dogfighting capacity of the various planes when fighting each other. The information is in the spreadsheet I publish along with my AAR versus Hermann.

In short, I compare the flight characteristics and the gun/vrs armor characteristics to come up with an estimate of which planes are best against various opponents.

In short, the reuslt is that if an aircraft can outperform the opponent it becomes a matter of having the biggest gun.

By my calculations, the best fighters for the job of shooting down IL-4's should be the Bf-110 and (surprisingly) the Bf109 E. The Bf 109E outperforms the bombers easily, but still carries a bigger punch than the Bf109 F's. Of course, the FW 190 is just way better than anything else at this stage of the war, as it outperforms everything else and carries bigger guns than everything else as well.

If you wish to check it out for yourself, download the spreadsheet, go to the tab "Dog Fighters", select the IL-4 as a reference (assuming that's the plane Stelteck uses), select the year (41) and press the filter button in column "N". Each fighter should now have an offensive rating against the IL-4's shown, The higher the value, the better the plane should be at shooting down IL-4's.

Just a warning. I think there is some uncertainty to my numbers, as I never had the combat formula of WitE to go by, but simply the information in the manual. A lot of what I do is more or less qualified guesswork.

Of course, in case of fighter comparisons, you should also check the oppositions ability to shoot down your own aircraft.


_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 39
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 7:50:51 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		The effort you have put into the air war is really impressive Dinglir. I use your strategy as a template for my first GC as Soviets, you saved me a lot of time figuring out things myself.
I hope that your game with Hermans somehow gets to 1942/1943 so you will do the late war aircraft analysis as well

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 40
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 8:06:37 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Personally I just like the BF-110 because it carries a bigger punch with (2) 20mm and (4) 7.92 vs the 109's (1) 15mm & (2) 7.92. You don't have to be a nimble fighter fighting bombers, just carry a bigger BAT ;-P I'm interested to see if the fighters intercept now if this is put into action. I will be waiting to find out ;)


I did some calcualtions based on the limited information present in the manual, where I tried to figure out the dogfighting capacity of the various planes when fighting each other. The information is in the spreadsheet I publish along with my AAR versus Hermann.

In short, I compare the flight characteristics and the gun/vrs armor characteristics to come up with an estimate of which planes are best against various opponents.

In short, the reuslt is that if an aircraft can outperform the opponent it becomes a matter of having the biggest gun.

By my calculations, the best fighters for the job of shooting down IL-4's should be the Bf-110 and (surprisingly) the Bf109 E. The Bf 109E outperforms the bombers easily, but still carries a bigger punch than the Bf109 F's. Of course, the FW 190 is just way better than anything else at this stage of the war, as it outperforms everything else and carries bigger guns than everything else as well.

If you wish to check it out for yourself, download the spreadsheet, go to the tab "Dog Fighters", select the IL-4 as a reference (assuming that's the plane Stelteck uses), select the year (41) and press the filter button in column "N". Each fighter should now have an offensive rating against the IL-4's shown, The higher the value, the better the plane should be at shooting down IL-4's.

Just a warning. I think there is some uncertainty to my numbers, as I never had the combat formula of WitE to go by, but simply the information in the manual. A lot of what I do is more or less qualified guesswork.

Of course, in case of fighter comparisons, you should also check the oppositions ability to shoot down your own aircraft.



Ya, the BF109-E has pretty much the same armament as the BF-110. I just like keeping the BF-109's at the front myself & use the BF-110's for those pesky Soviets that like to do bomber raids ;)

_____________________________


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Post #: 41
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 11:57:41 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		My reason for keeping Bf110 at rear is just their use of resources - given the choice I keep them on rails. The F-4 is the longest range German fighter, if you want to keep more than just Berlin covered it may be worth thinking about range too.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 42
RE: August 1941 - 5/21/2017 1:10:08 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice. I didn't thought about sending RHG HQ back. Before recent patches, I early disbanded it to earn Manpower.

I will try it

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 43
Moscow in sight! - 5/21/2017 1:21:42 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 11, 28th august 1941

We have reached the suburb of Moscow!

North

Strong russian resistance on the Neva but very good supply situation



Center

Kremin in sight!



South

The Don bend Pocket was reopened Now it's firmly sealed



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/6/2018 6:39:14 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 44
RE: Moscow in sight! - 5/21/2017 2:22:06 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 12, 28th august 1941

We have reached the suburb of Moscow!

North

Strong russian resistance on the Neva but very good supply situation






I'm guessing he has his Russian Airbases for Leningrad defense next to the Finish border as most Russians do for the battle of Leningrad. Normally the Russian puts those air bases in hex 80,14 81,14 82,14, 83,14. If the Russian player does then consider it a XMAS present. Use your Finish Airforce to either bomb those air bases or fly fighter CAP to engage his fighters before the Germans begin their bombing run/Attacks during the turn. This will fatigue those Soviets down before the Germans show up. Normally run 2 to 1 fighter to bomber or just do all Fighters. Plus, if those Air bases aren't there you can still bomb the Russians next to the Finish border to draw his fighters into battle there. This is assuming he is flying any sort of Air superiority on the last item.

_____________________________


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Post #: 45
RE: Moscow in sight! - 5/21/2017 2:24:08 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 12, 28th august 1941

We have reached the suburb of Moscow!

North

Strong russian resistance on the Neva but very good supply situation






I'm guessing he has his Russian Airbases for Leningrad defense next to the Finish border as most Russians do for the battle of Leningrad. Normally the Russian puts those air bases in hex 80,14 81,14 82,14, 83,14. If the Russian player does then consider it a XMAS present. Use your Finish Airforce to either bomb those air bases or fly fighter CAP to engage his fighters before the Germans begin their bombing run/Attacks during the turn. This will fatigue those Soviets down before the Germans show up. Normally run 2 to 1 fighter to bomber or just do all Fighters. Plus, if those Air bases aren't there you can still bomb the Russians next to the Finish border to draw his fighters into battle there. This is assuming he is flying any sort of Air superiority on the last item.


I like doing HQ buildups for Infantry Corps too, it is fun :)

_____________________________


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Post #: 46
Taking Leningrad - 5/21/2017 4:28:21 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I'm guessing he has his Russian Airbases for Leningrad defense ...

I usuallly use raw force. 1st corps filled with sappers, 6 inf divs under Model command. No russian stack can resist to such treatment in 1941.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 47
Bad news! - 5/23/2017 7:17:17 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 12, 4th september 1941

First a bad news, Hermann Balck is one of the best Pzd commander.



Second a VERY bad news. Army group center will get no supply during the next 2 weeks. My FBD is too far to repair the destroyed rail.



Only with infantry, Wehrmacht has no punch.



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/7/2018 6:20:13 AM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 48
September 1941 - 5/23/2017 7:22:44 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Leningrad

Raw force isn't enough at the moment...



Only good news this week is in the South. Nice encirclement around Kharkov



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/7/2018 6:21:22 AM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 49
RE: September 1941 - 5/23/2017 7:45:28 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
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From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		wouldn't it be better to put some divisions of the panzer group on reserve before attacking the river crossing at Leningrad? also I remember the hint from Pelton to deploy all dive bomber units near Leningrad.

you are doing well anyway. plenty of time to capture Leningrad and the southern pocket looks juicy.:)

even with the partisan infested rear area you still have 9 turns (clear and snow) to capture Moscow as well.

< Message edited by bigbaba -- 5/23/2017 7:46:46 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 50
RE: September 1941 - 5/23/2017 7:51:36 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Quote from his guide for Axis players:
quote:


Taking strong points.
Basically you set up an Army with 3 Corp with 12 divisions total, you can drop 2 infantry divisions for 2 MoT but with
the reserve reaction nerf in 1.09.01 there really is no need. You need 18-24 poineers, at least 6 200mm + artillery
SUs per Corp, 12 Stug SUs and your 4 best infantry commanders. Supporting this will be 1st Fliegerkorps
commanded by Richthofen loaded with Fighters and Stukas. The turn before the attack begins do at least 1 HQBU.
Then next turn Bomb the hex and turn ground support up to 300. The fort will be dropped from 3 to 0 in most cases, if
you’re not attacking across a river you will get 2 attacks per turn so even vs 3 Rifle Corps you can win on the 2nd
attack in most cases attacking from 3 hexes. 2 hexes vs 2 rifle Corp is possible but not 3 from 2 hexes.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 51
RE: September 1941 - 5/23/2017 8:01:39 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
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From: Versailles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

wouldn't it be better to put some divisions of the panzer group on reserve before attacking the river crossing at Leningrad? also I remember the hint from Pelton to deploy all dive bomber units near Leningrad.

In fact I did 3 attacks this turn sending fort level from 3.10 to 2.700. Concerning dive bombers, they are also needed in front of Moscow.

quote:


you are doing well anyway. plenty of time to capture Leningrad and the southern pocket looks juicy.:)

Thanks. In the soth I had 3 opportunities of encirclement. Karkhov, west of Stalino and lower Dniepr. I choosed the one that gave me the best risk/reward ratio.

quote:


even with the partisan infested rear area you still have 9 turns (clear and snow) to capture Moscow as well.


we shall see

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 52
RE: September 1941 - 5/23/2017 8:06:06 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
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From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Quote from his guide for Axis players:
quote:


Taking strong points.
Basically .../...3 from 2 hexes.


Good advice but typical Pelton's maths gaming style.

Efficient but not my way.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 53
RE: September 1941 - 5/23/2017 8:26:58 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		The south encerclement around Karkov was a huge blow. I was quite happy of my resistance in the south and i underestimated the german army group south.

2 completed, trained and good SouthWest front armies, out of 3 were encercled. And all the advantages i had in south gone.
One of them was fully armored....

============

But in front of moscow, it was the partisan divine surprise. I noticed the partisan action and sang a lot of soviet hymn and tributes !!!! First partisan action ever and master stroke !!

I was also happy that Leningrad was able to defend himself, as it should !!!

< Message edited by Stelteck -- 5/23/2017 8:32:23 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 54
RE: September 1941 - 5/23/2017 8:58:50 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

The south encerclement around Karkov was a huge blow. I was quite happy of my resistance in the south and i underestimated the german army group south.

2 completed, trained and good SouthWest front armies, out of 3 were encercled. And all the advantages i had in south gone.
One of them was fully armored....

============

But in front of moscow, it was the partisan divine surprise. I noticed the partisan action and sang a lot of soviet hymn and tributes !!!! First partisan action ever and master stroke !!

I was also happy that Leningrad was able to defend himself, as it should !!!



maybe the 2 cavalry divisions north of Kharkov can link up with some troops from north and buy you one more turn?

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 55
September 1941 - 5/25/2017 7:26:12 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 13, 11th september 1941

No sgnificant progress this week

Leningrad

The backdoor still resists but it won't last



Center

Supply crisis, no fuel received!



Infantry does his best...



South

Stelteck managed to reopen th Pocket. Now t's firmly closed



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/7/2018 6:25:12 AM >

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 56
Partisans strike back! - 5/29/2017 5:55:31 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 14, 18th september 1941

Supply will remain very low for the next 2 weeks in the center! 4 weeks of clear weather vanished.



Leningrad

Neva is crossed. The end is near.



Center

Small gains without Pzd



South

Next step Stalino!






< Message edited by STEF78 -- 6/7/2018 9:01:57 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 57
RE: Partisans strike back! - 5/29/2017 6:53:41 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 14, 18th september 1941

Supply will remain very low for the next 2 weeks in the center! 4 weeks of clear weather vanished.






Those are some pissed off partisans!!!!!!! Did you garrison all of your cities here? If you have I have never seen partisans this active in 1941. すごい 神風！！！！！！！


_____________________________


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 58
RE: Partisans strike back! - 5/29/2017 11:56:28 AM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Moscpw looks vulnerable.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 59
RE: Partisans strike back! - 5/29/2017 12:12:53 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		damnd what do you give those Partisans to drink and smoke. i want some stuff for my own dudes.:) those are some Partisans on Steroids.

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 60
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