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RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vessel Off Coast Of Japan

 
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RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/20/2017 11:08:04 AM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		These DDGs have:

a) Eyeball MK1 severall
b) Surface radar active
c) Surface radar passive (or pulsing)
d) ECM/ESM
e) Nav radar
f) Sonar both, but the passive one should also be able to pick up the sound of a bigger cargo ship not only subs

EDIT: Chickenboy is correct, from this accident here I cannot claim that all modern warships suck, so I deleted it.

But I bet they sweep this under the rug, or perhaps put the blame on the cargo ship, as it is from the Phillipines too. There was some kind of disagreement between the US and them I believe. But lets wait, what comes out. Not surprised if nothing at all happens to the captn or officers of the DDG.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 6/20/2017 5:16:38 PM >

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 31
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/20/2017 1:09:08 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Very unfortunate incident. But that's what happens when you have naval forces at sea. We *could* eliminate the vast majority of such incidents / accidents by...you know...not having an effective and widely distributed Navy. "Practice like you want to fight".

There will be some accidents from time to time through flaws in human judgement. Our WW2 vessels are better? Puhlease...

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Post #: 32
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 4:52:16 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Next time they should pay attention to Captain's Trimmer advice:






What is it with this book? I looked it up just for the heck of it and the used book prices are astronomical.

Bill

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(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 33
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 11:53:37 AM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Next time they should pay attention to Captain's Trimmer advice:





I avoided all large ships when I was in the service.

I was in the Army.


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Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 34
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 12:14:16 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

What is it with this book? I looked it up just for the heck of it and the used book prices are astronomical.

Bill


My best guess is that price went up because of it's sudden "fame". This after being included in an internet list of the worst book covers of all time
http://www.boredpanda.com/funny-book-titles-covers/
Probably very few copies were printed, and therefore a simple mater of low supply and high demand

You can see some of these titles are hilarious, but the key point with "How to avoid..." was that it was complete unintended hilarity, this is apparently a serious book written by a merchant captain that was tired of all these small crafts and yachts violating each and every "traffic" patterns and risking collision with big freighters



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/21/2017 12:17:35 PM >

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 35
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 12:26:14 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Amazon reviews about this book are amazing too:


3.0 out of 5 stars
Flawless advice
BySaba Iordanishvilion April 13, 2017
Say all you want but I have not encountered a single huge ship since I read this book.

3.0 out of 5 stars
Missed the mark.
ByAmazon Customeron April 11, 2017
Avoiding huge ships is a band aid for our huge ship problem today. We need to come up with a solution to rid huge ships from our waters and even our theme parks. They scare our children. Do it for the kids.

5.0 out of 5 stars
Trimm-endously Helpful
BySSBerthaon March 22, 2017
As a self-hating large ship, I personally enjoyed this book thoroughly. It's along the lines of greats such as "Big Bad Ship", "The Little Big That Couldn't", "South Asian Exotic Big Ship Taxonomy", and the ever classic "Big Bertha: A captain's regrettable experience with a ship that was just too big". Personally, it's helped me come to terms with the fact that I just need to avoid who I really am to fit in to the confines of today's society. Thankfully, I've elected to take an experimental surgery to get my mast reduced. My boyfriend has been really supportive with my mast dysmorphia and we're hoping for the best. Although he's a tiny yacht himself, this book has helped me not to run over him, and now, we work well together. Personally, we ship it.


5.0 out of 5 stars
Solution is easy
ByAmazon Customeron March 10, 2017
I was kindda disappointed after reading 112 pages, and discovering that the answer was "Move to Colorado, Switzerland or any other place far from a sea. Then again, i wasnt aware of this problem before reading this book, and it has saved my life.


1.0 out of 5 stars
Huge ships are ships too!
ByJ. Lauryon January 27, 2017
I'm sorry but fat-shaming innocent ships is just not right in this day and age. Does inclusiveness mean nothing to you people? Animals! What is this, the early '90's?


5.0 out of 5 stars
This book is invaluable!
ByBillon August 21, 2013
When on my jet ski in the Chesapeake bay this summer I was confronted by a huge ship moving up the channel. You can imagine my horror when I realized I had only 1 hour and 45 minutes or so before the lumbering behemoth was sure to pass through my area. With no place to hide and only a water jet propelled small craft beneath me for transport, I quickly withdrew my Kindle Fire from the storage compartment beneath my seat and preceded to read the book How To Avoid Huge Ships. One hour later and with only 45 minutes to spare, I implemented the expert advice provided by the author and turned my jet ski in the opposite direction of the huge ship to avoid certain disaster.


1.0 out of 5 stars
TOO Informative.
ByDanon December 25, 2010
Read this book before going on vacation and I couldn't find my cruise liner in the port. Vacation ruined.

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/21/2017 12:41:34 PM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 36
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 1:51:24 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

There was a time, I was just fishin' for sunfish, close kin of blue gills but not as pretty, I was standin' up in my canoe when this bass boat ran into me. I had no idea that anything like this could happen in the State of Missourah, but here it did and I was hornswaggled to say the least. All my bait was knocked over the side and swam away. I don't think most states allow this sort of thing and I'm amazed that Missourah does, but, well, there you have it.


Doesn't that state have a law that states something like "No matter what happens it is always the fault of the Gorn" ?

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 37
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 2:23:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Jorge Stanbury:

P.S. Did you think that up and execute it in the middle of a dark, quiet night? Wonderfully done. :)

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 38
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 2:33:01 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Jorge Stanbury:

P.S. Did you think that up and execute it in the middle of a dark, quiet night? Wonderfully done. :)


Agreed, I was actually falling for it, so a second

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Post #: 39
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:10:37 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		It's real...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/21/2017 3:12:34 PM >

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 40
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:13:59 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
The birds and bees and big ships




Attachment (1)

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 41
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:17:25 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		The USS Fitzgerald sailors killed in the collision.

The U.S. Navy released the names of seven sailors killed after a ship collision near Japan.

Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlosvictor Ganzon Sibayan,
Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby,
Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr.,
Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh,
Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez,
Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass,
Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/21/2017 3:39:03 PM >

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 42
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:25:54 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Jorge Stanbury:

P.S. Did you think that up and execute it in the middle of a dark, quiet night? Wonderfully done. :)


Well no
- more of an early morning for my time zone
- and I didn't create these reviews, these are actually real Amazon reviews, from people that has not likely read the book

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 43
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:33:48 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

It's real...





I'd like to say I'm shocked, but I don't (to the best of my knowledge) lie

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 44
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:37:32 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

It's real...


I'd like to say I'm shocked, but I don't (to the best of my knowledge) lie


Now days you cannot believe with certainty what you read, hear or see.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/21/2017 3:38:00 PM >

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 45
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 3:49:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I'll be darned.

I thought How to Avoid Huge Ships was a spoof, created by Jorge or somebody (hey, it's the kind of thing MakeeLearn is adept at).

Therefore, I thought the Amazon reviews were also a spoof, created by Jorge in the middle of the night or early morning or whatever.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 46
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 4:01:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 47
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 5:18:10 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The USS Fitzgerald sailors killed in the collision.

The U.S. Navy released the names of seven sailors killed after a ship collision near Japan.

Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlosvictor Ganzon Sibayan,
Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby,
Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr.,
Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh,
Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez,
Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass,
Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin.




A sad reality of the mistakes made that resulted in the collision.

I am amazed at the glimpse of the multi-ethnic makeup of the crew. If the whole USN is like that, it is a great model for the country to emulate.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 48
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 6:38:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This is an interesting thread, but I apologize for contributing humorous posts at the same time MakeeLearn was addressing the loss of life. I didn't see his post until later. The humor comes across as disrespectful when paired with information about the tragic results of the collision.


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 49
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/21/2017 7:43:29 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


A sad reality of the mistakes made that resulted in the collision.

I am amazed at the glimpse of the multi-ethnic makeup of the crew. If the whole USN is like that, it is a great model for the country to emulate.


My boys are in the Army, and it is all like that so I assume the Navy is no different. There is a long history of the Navy using any able bodied man (or woman now).


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 50
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/22/2017 12:18:06 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


A sad reality of the mistakes made that resulted in the collision.

I am amazed at the glimpse of the multi-ethnic makeup of the crew. If the whole USN is like that, it is a great model for the country to emulate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
My boys are in the Army, and it is all like that so I assume the Navy is no different. There is a long history of the Navy using any able bodied man (or woman now).



I recall seeing a story when the US went into Afghanistan that the military now has a larger non-white percentage than the population of the country. A lot of non-white kids who are ambitious, but have few opportunities decide to go into the military to learn skills they can later use to make a living.

It is always a tragedy when anyone dies unnecessarily, and even more tragic when it's someone young with their life ahead of them, but to put things in perspective, the military has between 750 and 2000 people on active duty die a year and only a small fraction are from combat. Suicide is usually the biggest killer (around 25% of deaths) with transportation accidents being #2, and other accidents are usually #3.
https://timemilitary.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/pages-from-05-12msmr.pdf

Several years ago I read a few issues of the USN's safety magazine Approach which is all about aircraft related safety. I found it a fascinating microcosm of issues handling aircraft both on shore and on carriers. Some horrific accidents were described as well as some other issues surrounding aircraft operations.

All the machinery the military operates can be very dangerous in minor as well as major ways. I knew a guy who was a pilot flying C-141s out of McChord. He said he knew a few mechanics who had missing ring fingers. The rules were not to wear rings around the aircraft, but people forgot and the rings got caught in machinery.

It is still a tragedy those 7 are dead.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 51
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/22/2017 3:29:30 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		I cannot wait to read the summary of the inquiry that is coming. Fair winds and following seas to those that lost their lives.


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(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 52
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/22/2017 7:46:28 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


A sad reality of the mistakes made that resulted in the collision.

I am amazed at the glimpse of the multi-ethnic makeup of the crew. If the whole USN is like that, it is a great model for the country to emulate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
My boys are in the Army, and it is all like that so I assume the Navy is no different. There is a long history of the Navy using any able bodied man (or woman now).



I recall seeing a story when the US went into Afghanistan that the military now has a larger non-white percentage than the population of the country. A lot of non-white kids who are ambitious, but have few opportunities decide to go into the military to learn skills they can later use to make a living.

It is always a tragedy when anyone dies unnecessarily, and even more tragic when it's someone young with their life ahead of them, but to put things in perspective, the military has between 750 and 2000 people on active duty die a year and only a small fraction are from combat. Suicide is usually the biggest killer (around 25% of deaths) with transportation accidents being #2, and other accidents are usually #3.
https://timemilitary.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/pages-from-05-12msmr.pdf

Several years ago I read a few issues of the USN's safety magazine Approach which is all about aircraft related safety. I found it a fascinating microcosm of issues handling aircraft both on shore and on carriers. Some horrific accidents were described as well as some other issues surrounding aircraft operations.

All the machinery the military operates can be very dangerous in minor as well as major ways. I knew a guy who was a pilot flying C-141s out of McChord. He said he knew a few mechanics who had missing ring fingers. The rules were not to wear rings around the aircraft, but people forgot and the rings got caught in machinery.

It is still a tragedy those 7 are dead.

Bill



A good article on the makeup of the military. A lot has changed since the Vietnam War ended. Minorities in the military have grown in number. The percentage tends to flux with the economy though. Minorities are still not well represented in the officer corps. Interesting to me is that well over 90% of enlisted service personnel have at least a high school diploma today. That is much greater than the percentage in our adult population. I would have expected fewer but a smaller modern military can be more selective and needs better educated soldiers.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/13/6-facts-about-the-u-s-military-and-its-changing-demographics/

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(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 53
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 1:31:03 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
Looks like the Crystal's crew was sleeping :

"Steffan Watkins, an information technology security consultant who writes for Janes Intelligence on ship tracking, said the path of the Crystal, as posted from its Automatic Identification System, “looks like an automated course.” Instead of stopping so the crew could investigate what had just happened, the ship corrected its course and “kept accelerating” toward Tokyo, he said.
“It looks very much like the computer was driving,” he said.
But the fact that after more than 30 minutes the Crystal reversed course and returned to the accident scene suggests the captain or crew took control of the ship from the autopilot, Mr. Watkins said. “It took them 55 minutes to get back to the spot of the collision, and that’s when they called the Japanese Coast Guard,” he said.


http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/maritime-mystery-why-a-us-destroyer-failed-to-dodge-a-cargo-ship/ar-BBD61YE?ocid=spartandhp


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 54
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 3:57:02 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Just coming in on this thread. From what I've read it appears that everyone on the container ship was asleep and the ship was on autopilot. The track showed that the ship resumed course, accelerated and it took the crew a half hour to figure out what happened and another half hour to return to the scene. Once there they called the Coast Guard. The radio room on the Fitzgerald was trashed and they were too busy trying to save the ship to get any signal off.

The commander's cabin took a direct hit and he was asleep there at the time. They had to pry his door open to get the wounded man out.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 55
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 4:03:31 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Nobody can believe that they weren't aware of the approach. Protocol is that if a ship comes within 4k yards the captain is awakened and comes to the bridge. There's no way the destroyer couldn't have avoided it unless her engine was out. Seems like everyone was figuratively asleep. There's supposed to be a watch on each side of the ship plus one forward. Why wasn't there automatically a collision alarm tripped by the ship's sensors?

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 56
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 5:18:21 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I haven't seen anything about what the DD was doing at the time of collision, but it does not seem like it was purposefully steaming to Tokyo. I wonder if it was engaged in exercises like trying to detect a sub amid heavy merchant traffic in the area. It could have been stopped or moving very slowly and focused on what the underwater sensors were saying rather than the traffic around them. And if there was a sub there for exercise purposes, no one will admit its presence for the usual "sneaky sub" reasons.

_____________________________

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(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 57
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 5:34:03 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I haven't seen anything about what the DD was doing at the time of collision, but it does not seem like it was purposefully steaming to Tokyo. I wonder if it was engaged in exercises like trying to detect a sub amid heavy merchant traffic in the area. It could have been stopped or moving very slowly and focused on what the underwater sensors were saying rather than the traffic around them. And if there was a sub there for exercise purposes, no one will admit its presence for the usual "sneaky sub" reasons.


But hard to believe the Capt would had been sleeping, and the crew in so low alertness level

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 58
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 6:34:26 PM   
wolfclan

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/19/2010
Status: offline 		They would/should be fully capable of maintaining a accurate picture of both the subsurface and surface environment whenever at sea. If your hypothetical is correct, it would mean that person/persons were not doing their job.
Now I have heard from one source, but have not seen confirmation, that the freighter overtook FITZGERALD and turned to port afterwards. Depending on when the freighter did the maneuver, that would imply that FITZGERALD was the privileged vessel, unless FITZGERALD had changed course or speed. Under International Rules of the Road, the privileged vessel maintains course and speed with expectation that the burdened vessel will maneuver. The privileged vessel may only maneuver when it is obvious that the burdened vessel will not comply. As you might imagine, most ship drivers prefer to be the burdened vessel. In any case, it is a mystery why the CO was not called to the bridge.

< Message edited by wolfclan -- 6/24/2017 6:36:04 PM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 59
RE: OT: U.S. Navy Destroyer Collides With Merchant Vess... - 6/24/2017 7:55:49 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I agree. They should be operating as though they're passing through the Strait of Malacca no matter where they are.

I'd also say that a US Navy warship should never consider itself to be either priveledged or burdened like a mere container ship. Their job is to be the traffic cop if need be, the way the Coast Guard operates. Blow your whistle, get compliance or take appropriate measures. A warship is not just traffic like everyone else, just trying to get from point A to point B.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 6/24/2017 8:02:12 PM >

(in reply to wolfclan)
Post #: 60
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