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RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J)

 
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RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 7:25:51 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
September 16, 1943



Highlights for Today


1.) The last of the ten trapped Japanese ground forces at Pegu were destroyed today.

2.) The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots to excite BBfanboy is 560 miles northwest of Guam and remains on course to invade Takao, Formosa and Pescadores.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) Japanese bomb Chungking.

2.) Japanese bombarded near Chungking (hex 76,47).

No Japanese losses.

4 Allied casualties.

3.) Japanese bombarded Chungking.

No Japanese losses.

232 Chinese casualties.

4.) Japanese deliberately attacked near Nanning (hex 73,53).

No Japanese losses.

250 Chinese casualties; Chinese retreat.

5.) Allies deliberately attacked Pegu.

6,657 casualties; 26th Infantry Division destroyed.

50 Allied casualties.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 16, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry


Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1801
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 7:41:26 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
September 17, 1943



Highlight for Today


Allied Carrier Wildcats and Hellcats hammer Japanese Carrier Judys near Daito Shoto.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) Allied Aircraft attack Pagan.

PB Yokae Maru; 3 bomb hits; sunk.

4 destroyed (Martlet IV).
4 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).

2.) Japanese Judys Attack Allied Carriers Near Daito Shoto (hex 98,76).

60 destroyed and 7 damaged (D4Y3-Judy).

No Allied Aircraft losses.

CVL Hermes; 1 bomb hit; on fire.

3.) Japanese bomb Chungking.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 17, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1802
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 9:15:58 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
Takao, Formosa

Operation Bottle

Order of Battle

Invasion Date: September 23, 1943

3,000 Assault Value



Four Marine Divisions, one Marine Regiment, four Marine Raider Battalions, three Marine Parachute Battalions, five Marine Tank Battalions, Twelve Marine Defense Battalions, and three Marine FA Battalions accompanied by Naval, Troop, and Air Headquarter Units and accompanied by numerous U.S. Army and U.S. Navy Engineer Units of every type intend to invade Takao, Formosa on September 23, 1943.

All units are prepped 100% for the objective of Takao, Formosa.

737,675 supply will unload.

A Task Force carrying LBA Recon, Search, and Transport aircraft accompany the Invasion Fleet. If the port and airbase at Takao can be secured and built quickly, these aircraft squadrons will also unload at Takao and two squadrons of fighters and two squadrons of bombers will fly off the carriers to Takao.

Best Regards,

-Terry




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rio Bravo -- 9/2/2017 9:48:27 AM >

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1803
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 9:34:16 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
Pescadores

Operation Cork

Order of Battle

Invasion Date: September 23, 1943

1,933 Assault Value



Four U. S. Army Divisions, seven U.S. Army Regiments, 2 Tank Battalions, 3 CD Units, Four AA units, nine FA Battalions, and Troop and Aircraft Headquarter Units accompanied by numerous U. S. Army and U.S. Navy Engineers of every type will invade Pescadores on September 23, 1943.

All units are 100% prepped for Pescadores.

780,383 supply will unload.

If the airbase can be quickly captured and built-up, Two Hellcat Squadrons and two Bomber Squadrons will fly off the carriers to land at Pescadores.

Best Regards,

-Terry




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rio Bravo -- 9/2/2017 10:04:58 AM >

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1804
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 9:47:39 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
Amoy, China

Operation John B. Hood

Order of Battle

Invasion Date: September 23, 1943

3,000 Assault Value



Upon arrival off the coast of Pescadores, should the Allies detect that both Takao, Formosa and Pescadores are lightly defended by the Japanese, the U.S. Marines and all accompanying elements along with 737,675 supply will be diverted from invading Takao and instead will invade the Southern Coast of China at Amoy.

Some of the U.S. Army and accompanying elements presently scheduled to invade Pescadores will be diverted to also invade Takao, Formosa:

793 AV and accompanying support units along with 210,435 supply will unload at Pescadores.

1,200 AV and accompanying support units along with 569,898 supply will unload at Takao, Formosa.

Best Regards,

-Terry





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1805
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 7:02:38 PM   
CaptHaggard

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

If you have multiple daisy-chained follow orders the AI tends to get confused and does nothing. I think the AI tries to move TFs in numerical sequence but if the follow orders are not matching it gets stuck in a circular logic. NEVER have more than one leading TF with all the other following it.


BB—

Well, there is only one lead TF BUT I think you're on to something: The MS TFs had not been part of the TFG until that turn. Adding them to the TFG mid-voyage probably did confuse the AI.

Stand by. We may have CVs vs. CVs brewing...

Thanks, BB!

Hag

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1806
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 9:52:05 PM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
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From: Grass Valley, California
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We Found the Japanese Carriers

*chunkling*

September 18, 1943



Two Hexes Due East of Daito Shoto (100,69)

3 CVE.

Three Hexes Southeast of Daito Shoto (hex 100,71)

4 CV.

2 CV and 3 CVE.

Five Hexes Southeast of Daitoi Shoto (hex 99,74)

TF 535: CV Saratoga; CV Enterprise; CVE Nassau; CVE Altamaha; and CVE Copahee.

TF 582: CV Hornet; CV Essex; CVE Chenango; CVE Breton; and CVE Barnes.

TF 584: CV Lexington; CV Lexington II; CVE Suwannee; CVE Santee; and CVE Long Beach.

TF 587: CV Yorktown; CV Yorktown II; CVE Sangamon; CVE Corregidor; and CVE Avzio

Seven Hexes Southwest of Daito Shoto (hex 98,76...the hex outlined in white)

The Invasion Fleet is here.

TF 589 (stayed with Invasion Fleet; did not react to move toward Japanese Carriers): CV Wasp; CVL Independence; CVL Princeton; CVL Belleau Woods; and CVL Hermes.

The Invasion Fleet is 760 miles Northwest of Guam.

The Invasion Fleet is 920 miles Southeast of OWP (i.e., one hex due west of Pescadores); the staging hex from which Amphibious landings will launch to hit the beaches of Takao, Formosa, Pescadores, and possibly Amoy, China.


A map of the Daito Shoto vicinity is depicted below.

Best Regards,

-Terry






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rio Bravo -- 9/2/2017 9:59:10 PM >

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to CaptHaggard)
Post #: 1807
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/2/2017 10:15:06 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		I smell blood in the water!!!!

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1808
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/3/2017 2:14:00 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Unless they needed to refuel.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1809
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/3/2017 2:51:47 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Putting your CVEs in the same TF as your CVs hobbles them from high speed moves. Better to put your 30+ knot ships in one set of TFs and your slower ships in another set. They can still normally travel in the same hex. I would rather risk the CVEs falling behind and being hit by the enemy than slow down my CV TFs and have them caught by an enemy SCTF.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1810
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/3/2017 3:46:32 AM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		BBboy really right!!++...you get lowest common denominator...same general rule for all TFs

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1811
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/3/2017 6:54:43 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
September 18, 1943



Highlight for Today


The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet were ordered to move due west. The carriers that had reacted to the Japanese carriers were ordered to the same hex that the Invasion Fleet would reach by the end of the day. El Lobo's carriers did not pursue the Allied carriers nor the Invasion Fleet. Accordingly, a carrier battle did not take place today.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) Japanese bombed Chungking.

2.) Japanese bombarded Chungking.

No Japanese losses.

260 Chinese casualties.

3.) Japanese bombarded near Chungking (hex 76/47).

No Japanese losses.

7 Chinese casualties.

4.) Japanese shock attacked near Ankang (hex 81/42).

47 Japanese casualties.

2,203 Chinese casualties; one unit destroyed and one unit retreated.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 18, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 1812
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/3/2017 6:56:33 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

I smell blood in the water!!!!



pontiouspilot-


I smelled the same blood, but we must have been dreaming.

Best Regards,

-Terry


_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 1813
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/3/2017 7:09:16 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Putting your CVEs in the same TF as your CVs hobbles them from high speed moves. Better to put your 30+ knot ships in one set of TFs and your slower ships in another set. They can still normally travel in the same hex. I would rather risk the CVEs falling behind and being hit by the enemy than slow down my CV TFs and have them caught by an enemy SCTF.



BBfanboy-


I have received this advice numerous times in the past.

For the purposes of Operations Bottle and Cork I do not care about speed for the carriers.

I am not going to chase after any of El Lobo's ships nor will I run from them.

I am not concerned about El Lobo's Surface Combat Task Forces. The Invasion Fleet has six powerful Surface Combat Task Forces. If El Lobo attempts to attack the Invasion Fleet, he will limp home with only a few remaining combat ships.

The Allied carriers are going to stay right with the Invasion Fleet to, during, and from the invasion destinations of Takao, Formosa, Pescadores, and possibly Amoy, China.

The Allied carriers have only one job and that job is to protect the Invasion Fleet: 1.) Get the Invasion Fleet to its destination; 2.) Remain with the Invasion Fleet during the Amphibious landings; and 3.) Get the Invasion Fleet back to Pearl.

If El Lobo wants a carrier battle, the Allies will not be difficult to find.

There will be plenty of time for carrier speed down the road when the Allies impose Operation Blockade (i.e., the naval blockade of Japan Proper).

Best Regards,

-Terry


< Message edited by Rio Bravo -- 9/3/2017 7:12:50 AM >

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1814
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/4/2017 1:14:45 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Protecting the invasion fleet is very Spruance of you.

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1815
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/4/2017 5:10:38 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Protecting the invasion fleet is very Spruance of you.



Bif-


*laughing*

It seems the appropriate thing to do.

I have a feeling the Invasion Fleet is going to see lots of diving red suns.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 1816
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/4/2017 5:39:59 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
September 19, 1943



Highlights for today


1.) Japanese launched several airstrikes against the Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet today. It is evidentiary of several members of The War College's assertion that El Lobo will not stand for the Allies invading Formosa and Pescadores without a bloody fist-fight.

2.) The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots is 920 miles northwest of Guam and 720 miles southeast of its destination one hex due east of Pescadores.


Synopsis of Combat Events for Today


1.) Near Guam (hex 106,93), Captain Haggard's SC-633 pounds an El Lobo submarine.

SS RO-63; 5 hits; heavy damage.

No Allied losses.

2.) Near Tinian (hex 109,97), Japanese submarine attacks a cargo-empty Allied Tanker Task Force returning to Pearl.

SS I-154; 18 hits; sunk.

TK Athelmonarch; 2 hits.
TK Herborg; 1 torpedo hit; sunk.

3.) Near Ishigaki (hex 90,71), Japanese launch six airstrikes against the Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet.

1 destroyed (Ki84a Frank).
11 destroyed (N1K1-J George).
4 destroyed (Ki-49IIb Helen).
7 destroyed Ki-48Ib Lilly).
9 destroyed (G4M1 Betty).

1 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat.
1 destroyed (F4F-4 Wildcat).
3 destroyed (FM-1 Wildcat).

4.) Near Pagan (hex 110,89), Allies launch three airstrikes.

No Japanese Losses.

1 damaged (SBD-5 Dauntless).
2 destroyed (Martlet IV).
2 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).

5.) Japanese bombed Chungking.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 19, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry



Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1817
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/4/2017 6:29:38 AM   
Lovejoy


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/16/2015
From: United States
Status: offline 		Bagging a few of those Georges must have been nice!

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1818
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/5/2017 5:13:52 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy

Bagging a few of those Georges must have been nice!



Lovejoy-

Yes, I take great pleasure watching Georges go down in flames.

The problem is, now El Lobo has Franks!

Best Regards,

-Terry


_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Lovejoy)
Post #: 1819
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/5/2017 5:29:33 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
September 20, 1943



Highlight for Today


The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots is 1,120 miles northwest of Guam and 520 miles from its destination one hex due east of Pescadores.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today

1.) Near Daito Shoto (hex 100,71), El Lobo's E Boats bump into Captain Haggard's submarine.

E Matsuwa; 1 torpedo hit; heavy damage.

SS Cisco; 13 hits; sunk.

2.) At Pagan, Japanese launch two airstrikes: Here Come the Franks!

6 destroyed (Ki-84a Frank).

2 destroyed (Spitfire Vc Trop).
2 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).
4 destroyed (P-40N5 Warhawk).
4 destroyed (Kittyhawk IV).

3.) Near Itbayet Island (hex 84,69), Allied carrier bombers attacked Japanese Subchasers.

SC Ch 16; 2 torpedo hits; sunk.
SC Ch 19; 3 bomb hits; sunk.

4.) Japanese bombed Chungking.

5.) Japanese bombardeded Chungking.

No Japanese casualties.

165 Chinese casualties.


Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 20, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1820
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/6/2017 2:09:29 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
September 21, 1943



Highlights for Today


1.) Allied carrier fighters beat-off Japanese airstrike against the Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet.

2.) The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots is 1,320 miles northwest of Guam and 320 miles southeast of its destination one hex due east of Pescadores.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) Near Hengchun (hex 85,68), Japanese submarines take a thrashing.

SS I-24; 10 hits.
SS I-159; 14 hits; heavy damage.
SS I-160; 7 hits; heavy damage.
SS I-173; 21 hits; sunk.

No Allied losses.

2.) Near Takao (hex 83,66), Allied carrier fighters hold their own against Japanese airstrike against the Invasion Fleet.

2 destroyed (Ki-45 Kai Nick).
1 destroyed (Ki-84a Frank).

1 destroyed (FM-1 Wildcat).
1 destroyed (F4F-3 Wildcat).
1 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).

3.) Near Pagan (hex 109,89), Allied Dauntless Dive Bombers Sink Japanese Subchasers.

SC Cha-11; 1 bomb hit; sunk.
SC Cha-13; 1 bomb hit; sunk.

No Allied losses.

4.) Japanese bombed Chungking.

5.) Japanese bombarded Chungking.

No Japanese losses.

120 Chinese casualties.


Attached bellows as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 21, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1821
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/6/2017 3:37:44 PM   
CaptHaggard

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Putting your CVEs in the same TF as your CVs hobbles them from high speed moves. Better to put your 30+ knot ships in one set of TFs and your slower ships in another set. They can still normally travel in the same hex. I would rather risk the CVEs falling behind and being hit by the enemy than slow down my CV TFs and have them caught by an enemy SCTF.


BB—

Here's the question I ponder re CV & CVEs in the same TF:

Does the speed/maneuverability differences between CVs & CVEs negatively affect the defensive capabilities of the CVs during the actual air assault? IOW, tactically, as well as operationally?

As always, thank you, BB!

Hag

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1822
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/6/2017 3:44:19 PM   
CaptHaggard

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

September 21, 1943


2.) The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots is 1,320 miles northwest of Guam and 320 miles southeast of its destination one hex due east of Pescadores.


Ummm... sir? NOT 5 knots... otherwise we'd still be near the Bonins...

We're traveling 200-250 miles per day, so more like 10 knots... still slow, true.

Hag

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 1823
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/6/2017 3:57:50 PM   
CaptHaggard

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline 		Gentlemen,

Now we near the crucial moments: first step, sweeping mines.

The orders are to arrive at OWP (One West Pescadores) tomorrow.

During the approach, I will send the MS TFs ahead to targets. As BB reported, there exists a plethora of intrinsic mines (300-350) at both Takao & Pescadores. There are also intrinsic CD units at these places.

My first thoughts are to combine the MS TFs into one large TF for each target and send them on patrol: Station One the target, Station Two OWP.

That way, we should sweep at night and beat it back to safety during the day, away from the CDs (expecting no air support).

Pipe-dream or feasible?

Then we will go back in the next night with the Bombardment TFs and remain there.

Questions: Will enough mines be swept for the invasion TFs (entering target hexes right behind the Bombardment TFs)? Or should I simply send in the MS TFs and keep them there by themselves the entire first entry turn?

Thank you,

Hag

(in reply to CaptHaggard)
Post #: 1824
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/6/2017 4:49:18 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptHaggard

Gentlemen,

Now we near the crucial moments: first step, sweeping mines.

The orders are to arrive at OWP (One West Pescadores) tomorrow.

During the approach, I will send the MS TFs ahead to targets. As BB reported, there exists a plethora of intrinsic mines (300-350) at both Takao & Pescadores. There are also intrinsic CD units at these places.

My first thoughts are to combine the MS TFs into one large TF for each target and send them on patrol: Station One the target, Station Two OWP.

That way, we should sweep at night and beat it back to safety during the day, away from the CDs (expecting no air support).

Pipe-dream or feasible?

Then we will go back in the next night with the Bombardment TFs and remain there.

Questions: Will enough mines be swept for the invasion TFs (entering target hexes right behind the Bombardment TFs)? Or should I simply send in the MS TFs and keep them there by themselves the entire first entry turn?

Thank you,

Hag

It is not so much the number of mines as knowing where all the minefields are. Each time mines are laid at a given hex they are treated as a different minefield. Once you have detected all the minefields you ships will avoid them 99% of the time.

DMS are fast enough to be hard to hit early on but I am not sure if the Japanese CD units can hit them once they have radar at the base. AMs are almost certain to be hit hard, but if you deem them expendable in exchange for detecting the fields and sweeping some of them, that is not bad strategy.

Another possibility is just to send in a couple of BBs escorted by DDs (for ASW against mini-subs) and DMS for minesweeping. The BBs will suppress the CD units firing at the DMS. The DMS should sweep a path to keep the BBs safe from mines. I always use at least one more DMS than BBs.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to CaptHaggard)
Post #: 1825
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/7/2017 3:44:26 PM   
CaptHaggard

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptHaggard

Gentlemen,

Now we near the crucial moments: first step, sweeping mines.

The orders are to arrive at OWP (One West Pescadores) tomorrow.

During the approach, I will send the MS TFs ahead to targets. As BB reported, there exists a plethora of intrinsic mines (300-350) at both Takao & Pescadores. There are also intrinsic CD units at these places.

My first thoughts are to combine the MS TFs into one large TF for each target and send them on patrol: Station One the target, Station Two OWP.

That way, we should sweep at night and beat it back to safety during the day, away from the CDs (expecting no air support).

Pipe-dream or feasible?

Then we will go back in the next night with the Bombardment TFs and remain there.

Questions: Will enough mines be swept for the invasion TFs (entering target hexes right behind the Bombardment TFs)? Or should I simply send in the MS TFs and keep them there by themselves the entire first entry turn?

Thank you,

Hag

It is not so much the number of mines as knowing where all the minefields are. Each time mines are laid at a given hex they are treated as a different minefield. Once you have detected all the minefields you ships will avoid them 99% of the time.

DMS are fast enough to be hard to hit early on but I am not sure if the Japanese CD units can hit them once they have radar at the base. AMs are almost certain to be hit hard, but if you deem them expendable in exchange for detecting the fields and sweeping some of them, that is not bad strategy.

Another possibility is just to send in a couple of BBs escorted by DDs (for ASW against mini-subs) and DMS for minesweeping. The BBs will suppress the CD units firing at the DMS. The DMS should sweep a path to keep the BBs safe from mines. I always use at least one more DMS than BBs.


BB—

Once again you clarify my errant thoughts: We can clean 'em up after we have the place. Now we just need a path or two.

So if an initial D/L level is established that first night—by placing the MS TF on "Patrol" and hopefully retreating back to the TFG sanctuary OWP for the day phase—it should be close to that initialD/L level for the second MS TF foray the next night, no? And thereafter increase?

D/L - M/L rules in the manual seems easier to grok in terms of ships and aircraft than minefields for some reason... I should wrap my noggin around more WITPAE rules than Pinots, I guess.

Thank you, my friend!

*Salute*

Hag

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1826
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/7/2017 3:55:08 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		As with so many things, detecting the minefields is a die-roll thing. The number and experience of your MS's probably plays a part in finding the fields. There are no guarantees.
In addition to sending in BBs with DMS embedded, I also embed AMs in the amphib TFs on their way in. The game seems to model the first mines laid being closer to shore and as more fields are laid they move out further. Your MSs will initially encounter the fields furthest out from shore and CD guns may prevent them from going in close to clear those mines. Amphib ships have to go in close so they need MSs with them to ensure a path is cleared.

Do NOT let your AOs go into a mined hex until it is cleared. This seems obvious but if you embedded your AOs in the amphib TF when it set out you may have forgotten about them ...

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to CaptHaggard)
Post #: 1827
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/7/2017 5:17:17 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		Whether by design or your bad luck your opponent has held off on anything but "tickler" raids....my hunch is that you are in for "fire and fury", or whatever the leader of free world calls it. This could mean hundreds of planes in single strikes. I wonder whether kamikaze triggers now or after feet hit the ground?? Likely the latter. Make sure your CAP is as ready as it can be. There are better advisors than me on this...make sure your higher altitude performers are used accordingly, with lower set lower. Stagger your patrol levels regardless. Set your range to short, at least over CVs. Designate LRCAP over any transport TFs. Hopefully the fatigue is not already high...bad time for me to tell you to rest them.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1828
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/7/2017 7:34:31 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Pretty sure Kamikazes do not trigger before Jan. 1, 1944.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 1829
RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/7/2017 10:32:08 PM   
CaptHaggard

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline 		BB & PP,

I think I too recently read kamikazes can appear at the earliest 1/1/44, but it is true these imminent invasions will trigger that early date.

I just had a typical phone conversation with Admiral Bravo: talking over each other, interrupting, pleading for the floor, casting a few broad swipes at each other's perceived flaws, and then of course many hearty laughs. This is our typical M.O.—we were school chums, drinking buddies, we've been in business together, we've jointly written a novel—generally, we come to blows over everything and anything.

Today's subjects of which we did not dispute, argue or even parse details:

A. El Lobo is coming with everything;

B. "Everything" is a whole lot of nasty stuff.

El is back in the USA and probably jet-lagged to beat the band and so the onslaught pauses in dreamlike fashion, akin to a Hitchcockian pistol slowly aimed from between the crack of curtains...

By the CR of the very next turn, we will be in Strike Hex OWP; we will know a lot more about what awaits us in Takao, Pescadores and Amoy. But strategically and operationally, it's not going to make any difference:

The next day we go in.

*Hearing 'Anchors Aweigh' and mind-painting recruiting posters... before I puke the nerves out*

Carry on, Gentlemen—as always you are peerless advisors—

Hag







< Message edited by CaptHaggard -- 9/7/2017 10:33:03 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1830
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