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RE: BTSL Complete - 9/23/2017 4:16:40 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Files uploaded for anyone to download. Need to finish the artwork (as said above) and revamp the Scenario Descriptions.

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Post #: 631
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/23/2017 5:36:53 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline 		I have attached a list of the changes from BTS 2.6 to BTS 4.0. The comparison report is a little cryptic, but you can probably guess what most codes mean. In time, this report will get more readable. I haven't worked on that part of the editor in awhile, but thought people might like to have a list of the changes.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 632
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/23/2017 6:04:46 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline 		Some examples of how to interpret the file:

Example 1
Ships 12487 Values changed: shp_baselocid (616 -> 0), shp_tflocid (0 -> 8441), shp_dly (420128 -> 411206) N
Technical translation: Ship 12487 was removed from a base "baselocid" and added to a Task force "tflocid" and the Delay was changed from late January 42 to being active at game start.
Simpler version: Ship 12487 () is in TF 441 at game start instead of arriving as a replacement at base 616 on 28 Jan 1942.

Example 2
Ships 3825 Values changed: shp_name (src:Anchorage -> ), shp_clsid (415 -> 0), shp_baselocid (584 -> 0), shp_nation (4 -> 0), shp_fuel (1892 -> 0), shp_dly (411206 -> 0), shp_hqid (102 -> 0), shp_wpdev01 (1570 -> 0), shp_wpnum01 (6 -> 0), shp_wptur01 (3 -> 0), shp_wparm01 (165 -> 0), shp_wpamo01 (18 -> 0), shp_wpdev02 (1570 -> 0), shp_wpnum02 (3 -> 0), shp_wpfac02 (1 -> 0), shp_wptur02 (3 -> 0), shp_wparm02 (165 -> 0), shp_wpamo02 (18 -> 0), shp_wpdev03 (1570 -> 0), shp_wpnum03 (6 -> 0), shp_wpfac03 (2 -> 0), shp_wptur03 (3 -> 0), shp_wparm03 (165 -> 0), shp_wpamo03 (18 -> 0), shp_wpdev04 (1624 -> 0), shp_wpnum04 (4 -> 0), shp_wpfac04 (3 -> 0), shp_wptur04 (2 -> 0), shp_wparm04 (5 -> 0), shp_wpamo04 (22 -> 0), shp_wpdev05 (1624 -> 0), shp_wpnum05 (4 -> 0), shp_wpfac05 (4 -> 0), shp_wptur05 (2 -> 0), shp_wparm05 (5 -> 0), shp_wpamo05 (22 -> 0), shp_wpdev06 (1581 -> 0), shp_wpnum06 (8 -> 0), shp_wpfac06 (3 -> 0), shp_wptur06 (4 -> 0), shp_wpamo06 (28 -> 0), shp_wpdev07 (1581 -> 0), shp_wpnum07 (8 -> 0), shp_wpfac07 (4 -> 0), shp_wptur07 (4 -> 0), shp_wpamo07 (28 -> 0), shp_wpdev08 (1582 -> 0), shp_wpnum08 (4 -> 0), shp_wpfac08 (3 -> 0), shp_wptur08 (1 -> 0), shp_wpamo08 (36 -> 0), shp_wpdev09 (1582 -> 0), shp_wpnum09 (4 -> 0), shp_wpfac09 (4 -> 0), shp_wptur09 (1 -> 0), shp_wpamo09 (36 -> 0) N

Simpler version: Ship 3825 (Anchorage) was removed from the game.


As I work more on the comparison tool, messages will get closer to the "simple message" but the first goal was to identify all the changes.

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)
Post #: 633
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/24/2017 4:17:49 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Have now updated the scenario descriptions for BTS and BTSL on the website. Will tackle the art folder tomorrow.


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Post #: 634
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/24/2017 4:36:42 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Bind 410 has CL & CLAA Omaha and CL & CA Mogami. Converting the Omahas to Mogamis might be too much, even for AFB's ;p

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Post #: 635
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/24/2017 6:49:11 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Bind 410 has CL & CLAA Omaha and CL & CA Mogami. Converting the Omahas to Mogamis might be too much, even for AFB's ;p


What the HE**? Will look into that ASAP.

We are canning spaghetti sauce and salsa today in the Cochran Household.


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Post #: 636
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/25/2017 3:14:40 AM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Another thing, and this one I don't know much about. The F8F-1 Bearcat has a maximum load of 1K lbs, but a default load of 2x 1K lb bombs. Is that correct?

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Post #: 637
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/25/2017 3:41:37 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Haven't touched any Allied aircraft for that late in the war so I do not know.

Anyone?


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Post #: 638
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/25/2017 12:20:45 PM   
DOCUP


Posts: 3073
Joined: 7/7/2010
Status: offline 		John. Did you fix the Tigercat? Also with the increase in BB and CA tonnage. Did you increase CV tonnage?

Have to say Friedmans BB book is very interesting.

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Post #: 639
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/25/2017 3:20:36 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Another USAAF plane with a maximum load smaller than the default load: P-43A Lancer. Maximum load is 200, default load is 250 lb bomb.

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Post #: 640
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/25/2017 10:02:58 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Am going to jump on this right now and fix the issues for both Mods.


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Post #: 641
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/25/2017 10:30:29 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		When this is localized changes go very quickly. FIXED P-43a, F8F-1, and Mogami Bind (now 415 instead of 410).

Thanks for finding these mistakes!


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Post #: 642
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 12:55:21 AM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Hmm... F8F-1 seems ok, but P-43A does not. CL/CA binds seem to be OK too.

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Post #: 643
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 2:05:29 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I raised the P-43A to 250. Isn't that there?


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Post #: 644
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 3:06:18 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I just checked the files and both have the P-43A at max load 250 now. SHOULD be OK.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/26/2017 12:37:40 PM >

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Post #: 645
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 4:19:04 AM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Hmm... weird...



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Post #: 646
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 12:38:22 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I'll re-save them and see if that fixes what you have.


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Post #: 647
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 1:58:32 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		With this newest version, both the George and the newly re-introduced Jack will be allowed to have their 2nd gen planes "CV Capable." Will an AFB check to ensure the Allies are getting adequate 2nd gen Corsairs? The Zero was better that the Wildcat. The Hellcat is better than the Zero. Now the Jack/George should be better than the Hellcat. The 2nd gen Corsair should be equal to Jack/George.

In my current game, I should be getting 2nd gen Georges the same time the Hellcat comes out. How is A2A between these two models?

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Post #: 648
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 2:51:36 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Should prove to be interesting.

Am really curious what players find with their additional opportunities with choice on researching Jack or George or Sam. It will be expensive but LOVE giving the chance for players to go with they are really interested in flying.


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Post #: 649
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 2:52:40 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

With this newest version, both the George and the newly re-introduced Jack will be allowed to have their 2nd gen planes "CV Capable." Will an AFB check to ensure the Allies are getting adequate 2nd gen Corsairs? The Zero was better that the Wildcat. The Hellcat is better than the Zero. Now the Jack/George should be better than the Hellcat. The 2nd gen Corsair should be equal to Jack/George.

In my current game, I should be getting 2nd gen Georges the same time the Hellcat comes out. How is A2A between these two models?


In my BtS 2.4 I am getting 78 F4U-1a and in BtS 4.0 it says I would get 90. I really think that 500 would be adequate, but I guess 90 is good.

And define "equal", it looks like both the Jack and George A types are superior to Corsairs. What fun.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 9/26/2017 3:08:11 PM >

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Post #: 650
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 3:07:05 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

With this newest version, both the George and the newly re-introduced Jack will be allowed to have their 2nd gen planes "CV Capable." Will an AFB check to ensure the Allies are getting adequate 2nd gen Corsairs? The Zero was better that the Wildcat. The Hellcat is better than the Zero. Now the Jack/George should be better than the Hellcat. The 2nd gen Corsair should be equal to Jack/George.

In my current game, I should be getting 2nd gen Georges the same time the Hellcat comes out. How is A2A between these two models?



If Japanese are getting ahead of the tech curve, the allies should as well. Are you planning on bumping up the date & production of the next gen Hellcats? I kind of see this as a spiral that can get out of control.

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Post #: 651
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 3:14:29 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		I think there is a problem with the J2M5 upgrading to the N1K4-A. It should upgrade to the J2M3a.

Right now it looks like this
J2M2 -> J2M3 -> J2M5 -> N1K4-A
and then
J2M3a -> J2M3 Jackb -> J2M5

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 9/26/2017 3:19:18 PM >

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Post #: 652
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 3:23:51 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Zeros and Jacks upgrade to Mr George. I've talked with John about this already. So, it's your turn.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 9/26/2017 3:24:14 PM >

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Post #: 653
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 3:45:11 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		Apparently Johns intention is for Japan to have superior CV fighters for the entire war.

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Post #: 654
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 5:14:03 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

With this newest version, both the George and the newly re-introduced Jack will be allowed to have their 2nd gen planes "CV Capable." Will an AFB check to ensure the Allies are getting adequate 2nd gen Corsairs? The Zero was better that the Wildcat. The Hellcat is better than the Zero. Now the Jack/George should be better than the Hellcat. The 2nd gen Corsair should be equal to Jack/George.

In my current game, I should be getting 2nd gen Georges the same time the Hellcat comes out. How is A2A between these two models?



If Japanese are getting ahead of the tech curve, the allies should as well. Are you planning on bumping up the date & production of the next gen Hellcats? I kind of see this as a spiral that can get out of control.


Bingo....GP

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Post #: 655
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 6:13:33 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		I will second (or third, or fourth) concerns about the current upgrade path. I see three consequences:

1. That factories will not need to be repaired in the following upgrades (there may be other, have not checked, but fighters tend to be the most important):
----- A6M5 -> N1K2-J
----- J2M5 -> N1K4-A
----- A6M3 -> J2M2
----- A6M2-N -> N1K1

2. That the N1Kx family can be massively accelerated by assigning all research naval fighter research factories to research the A6M5, and then pushing them up the A6M5 -> N1K2-J -> N1K4-A -> N1K5-J line. I may be wrong, but my nose tells me that the IJN could have the 1945 N1K4-A some time in 1943. The cost would be front-loaded, but it would not be more than researching other models (and I think it would be well worth it).

3. Same with the J2Mx family, assigning research factories to the A6M3 and then pushing them up all the way to the N1K4-A.

I am a JFB, but this seems to me a bit too much. I would suggest that the A6M5 factories DO NOT upgrade to N1K2-J, nor the J2M5 factories to the N1K4-A. That should help to make things more realistic (retooling Mitsubishi factories for a Kawanishi design does not strike me as kosher).

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, the name of the J2M3b is wrong in the database. It is written as "J2M3 Jackb".

EDIT: added comments regarding the A6M3 upgrade line.



< Message edited by Kitakami -- 9/26/2017 7:26:51 PM >

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Post #: 656
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 8:46:32 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		On the other hand... there are several IJN seaplane units onboard AV and CS ships that can be upgraded to A6M2-N Rufes but not to N1K1 Rexes. Is that as intended?

< Message edited by Kitakami -- 9/26/2017 9:35:31 PM >

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Post #: 657
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 10:42:39 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Zeros and Jacks upgrade to Mr George. I've talked with John about this already. So, it's your turn.


THOUGHT I shifted this back into pure research lines for George, Sam, and Jack.

Like the idea of 2nd Gen Hellkittens. Other thoughts there?

As to Carrier Fighter superiority throughout the war that is not at all true. There is a massive gap between the M5 and the shaky CV-Jack/CV-George. These planes are rushed into production and they are both Hangar queens with SR of 3. Might get one good day with them then you are screwed.


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Post #: 658
RE: BTSL Complete - 9/26/2017 10:47:55 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

I will second (or third, or fourth) concerns about the current upgrade path. I see three consequences:

1. That factories will not need to be repaired in the following upgrades (there may be other, have not checked, but fighters tend to be the most important):
----- A6M5 -> N1K2-J
----- J2M5 -> N1K4-A
----- A6M3 -> J2M2
----- A6M2-N -> N1K1

2. That the N1Kx family can be massively accelerated by assigning all research naval fighter research factories to research the A6M5, and then pushing them up the A6M5 -> N1K2-J -> N1K4-A -> N1K5-J line. I may be wrong, but my nose tells me that the IJN could have the 1945 N1K4-A some time in 1943. The cost would be front-loaded, but it would not be more than researching other models (and I think it would be well worth it).

3. Same with the J2Mx family, assigning research factories to the A6M3 and then pushing them up all the way to the N1K4-A.

I am a JFB, but this seems to me a bit too much. I would suggest that the A6M5 factories DO NOT upgrade to N1K2-J, nor the J2M5 factories to the N1K4-A. That should help to make things more realistic (retooling Mitsubishi factories for a Kawanishi design does not strike me as kosher).

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, the name of the J2M3b is wrong in the database. It is written as "J2M3 Jackb".

EDIT: added comments regarding the A6M3 upgrade line.




I printed this email off and will run the thoughts by Michael as we talk about this some more. Think I screwed up a couple of the upgrade paths just by what is Posted here and above. Some of it is not by intention.

Hang tight for a bit as we sort this out.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/26/2017 10:48:35 PM >

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Post #: 659
Aircraft Pathways - 9/26/2017 11:30:00 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Damn, Kitakami caught several major OOOOOPS.

Here are the Lines with Scen 1 Date and then current date in BTS:

ZERO Line
A6M2 12/41
A6M5 8/43 (10/42)

ZERO FB Line
A6M2 Sen Baku 10/42 (10/42)
A6M7 5/45 (4/43)

SAM
A7M2 9/45 (2/44) CV Variant
A7M3-J 1/46 (12/44)
A7M3 (6/45) CV Variant

JACK
JNM2 9/43 (9/43)
JNM3 4/44 (4/44)
JNM5 1/45 (1/45)

JACK-CV Variant
JNM3a (9/44)
JNM3b (2/45)

GEORGE
N1K1-J 9/43 (1/43)
N1K5-J 10/45 (5/45)

GEORGE-CV Variant
N1K2-J 11/44 (1/44)
N1K4-A (1/45)

This is how the production lines are SUPPOSED to look like. Michael and I were talking on the phone twice while I was working on this and we kept bouncing ideas around and I think this is what led to the confusion of the development lines.

I've not looked at these dates side-by-side in a long time and it look like we need to do some corrective work.

We accelerate some lines due to the abandonment of the ZERO Line just months after the war begins. The ZERO Team shifts over to full work on Jack and Sam. The George group gets direct support and help from the Naval Air Ministry. These are the 'background changes' setting up the differing development lines and times.

I shall Post this and then jump back in with revised dates for deployment to get serious commentary.



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Post #: 660
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