create strike package

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create strike package - 9/26/2017 7:02:25 PM

ghostdog

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/22/2006
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how are you guys creating a strike package? do you create a mission or just launch a whole group and manually waypoint them then manually target them?

lets say I wanted a portion of my carrier air wing to strike a naval target. I'd want to include some SEAD, some ASuW, some EW and some AAW escorts. best way to do that??

Post #: 1

RE: create strike package - 9/26/2017 8:03:42 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
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I tend to use strike mission completely including escorts. If I know I've got to play with altitudes due to air defense types etc. I might use a patrol mission with a very small box/prosecution zone so I can control the alt.
I definitely use a SEAD patrol for all anti SAM and Radar work. I click and drag the zone around.

Many others will launch groups first and then plot them to some meeting point and add them to a mission from there.

Mike

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(in reply to ghostdog)

Post #: 2

RE: create strike package - 9/26/2017 8:09:05 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
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I almost always use strike with escorts. I almost always run with a separate SEAD mission and ECM mission separately for flexibility. Many times in heavy combat scenarios, I'll run a fighter sweep ahead of the strike package. btw, I do this when I play and for AI mission building in scenario editing.

I personally don't use a form up waypoint, but I tend to run multiple missions so the strike packages are easier to monitor. I also do a LOT of planning and and recon to figure out altitudes and strike directions. Even though attacks can be done automatically off-axis, I am still in the habit of smaller packages for that purpose. It obviates the need for the form up waypoint.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/26/2017 8:10:17 PM >

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 3

RE: create strike package - 9/26/2017 10:25:46 PM

kevinkins

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

Interesting discussion. I tend to get things started within a mission but micromanage when things get "hot". A big caveat is I play smaller rather than larger scenarios. To thewood1's point, lots of practice and planning are required before starting major scenarios like we get within the LIVE franchise. These scenarios are so good - but complex - new players do themselves a disservice by just diving into them. Players can not hope to succeed in a professionally designed scenario without mastering the basics. Designing test bed scenarios helped me a lot. For example, you can not learn a programming language by reading the spec in a manual without putting it into action by "cutting code". To me and many others, the editor allows us to answer I lot of questions within the context of the sim itself.
Sort of like writing your first "hello world" program then trying new stuff seeing your steady progress on the computer screen. The feedback is priceless when in the context of combat within the sim.

Kevin

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 4

RE: create strike package - 9/26/2017 11:07:46 PM

CHM

Posts: 63
Joined: 9/17/2017
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I'm a micromanagement freak so I usually only use missions for support or ASW patrols. For large numbers of aircraft I use a form-up mission to get everyone off the ground easier.

(in reply to kevinkins)

Post #: 5

RE: create strike package - 9/27/2017 1:07:13 AM

Gunner98

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
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I tend to set up a series of missions. Break an airbase down into probably 6 missions, then assign aircraft and activate the missions in the order I want them. Instead of using escorts, which I do on occasion, I'll set up CAP mission and gradually walk it towards the target. Same for SEAD and EW etc.

On really complex strikes I do all the above but then build a couple holding missions (Support mission in a safe area, setting the group size to 2 or 4) then when I have everyone in place I reassign the assets to the strike missions.

Coordination is key but I try to avoid micromanaging this way.

B

(in reply to CHM)

Post #: 6

RE: create strike package - 9/27/2017 3:24:46 AM

Randomizer

Posts: 1473
Joined: 6/28/2008
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I pretty much do as Gunner98 describes, using one or more support missions to concentrate the strike elements in a safe area and then allocate them from there to their targets using the appropriate strike or patrol missions. Forming-up places can solve the TOT problems and for carrier strikes, the reference points are set as relative to the carrier on a safe axis, generally inside the CAP and covered by an AEW asset.

Working the strike packages out in advance and on paper really helps ensure the proper ordnance ends up on the correct targets and there is no substitute for careful planning.

-C

< Message edited by Randomizer -- 9/27/2017 3:26:08 AM >

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 7

RE: create strike package - 9/27/2017 11:49:52 AM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
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I do as well. I think it's probably a result of my Army training, forming up for an attack just before the objective. That might not be the right approach for air warfare, but it does help me keep things in order and so far has worked ok for me.

_____________________________

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Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Randomizer)

Post #: 8

RE: create strike package - 9/27/2017 12:24:44 PM

kevinkins

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/8/2006
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I bookmarked this site a while ago. It may help visualize large packages as assembled during the '60s. It did help me. I believe many of the concepts are used today.

http://www.airbattle.co.uk/d_combatants.html

(in reply to ultradave)

Post #: 9

RE: create strike package - 9/27/2017 9:52:06 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline

This is where the real art of the game comes into play.

Usually, for me, strike packages end up involving many different aircraft performing many different missions with many different targets, often multiple aim points, sometimes simultaneously and sometimes in sequence. Depending on what's going on and what you're trying to do, there may be a few different ways to set things up. Sometimes those might reflect different choices of tactics.

To continue with your example I might do this:

Package A
1. Support Mission (for the EW aircraft)
2a. SEAD Patrol Mission (with reference points made relative to the central target ship)
2b. AAW Patrol Mission (with similar reference points made relative to the central target ship)
3. ASuW Patrol Mission - Naval (with other reference points made relative to the central target ship)

In this package the EW aircraft arrive first and fly an orbit at a standoff from the targets. The SEAD and AAW aircraft arrive second some time later. Notice I chose patrol missions. These sets of aircraft will arrive at random points throughout the target area and then attack from random directions any targets of opportunity. The aircraft attacking the ships will fly similar tactics. The AAW aircraft will attack any aircraft in the specified vicinity of the target. It also helps to split large packages into multiple missions if you're operating from many different bases.

Package B
1. Intercept Mission (with targets specifying exactly which ships I want hit)
Escorts A - aircraft equipped with ARMs
Escorts B - aircraft equipped with AAMs
Escorts C - aircraft equipped with jamming pods

In this package the aircraft will strike only the specified targets while the escorts will attack aircraft or radars that threaten the package along the ingress/egress route. In this set up, the aircraft will all come from pretty much the same direction and avoid becoming separated. There's also escort jammers flying along.

Package C
1. Support Mission (for the EW aircraft)
2. Intercept Mission (with targets specifying exactly which SAM shooters I want to hit)
3. Intercept Mission (with targets specifying exactly which ships I want hit)
Escorts B - aircraft equipped with AAMs

In this package I split the SEAD portion from the ASuW portion and the EW portion from the main strike. This set up lets me target specific SAM shooters just as I specified the ships that get struck. It also lets me control their time on target independently (e.g. attack the ships 10 minutes after I attack the radars). That way I can sequence things.

There's lots of different ways I might set things up. It just depends on what I'm trying to accomplish and what I think is the best way to accomplish it. I try to take advantage of the AI and how it executes the missions I specify in creative ways to reflect different tactics. There isn't necessarily a single "best" way.

I would suggest keeping a spreadsheet of some kind opened during play, and during your initial planning process. That'll let you solve a lot of problems involving time and distance to make sure everything arrives when you want it to arrive and is sequenced properly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ghostdog

how are you guys creating a strike package? do you create a mission or just launch a whole group and manually waypoint them then manually target them?

lets say I wanted a portion of my carrier air wing to strike a naval target. I'd want to include some SEAD, some ASuW, some EW and some AAW escorts. best way to do that??

(in reply to ghostdog)

Post #: 10

RE: create strike package - 9/27/2017 11:51:24 PM

cns180784

Posts: 447
Joined: 7/31/2015
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SeaQueen why do you use Intercept missions for striking the ships and SAMs when you can use Maritime Strike/ Land strike missions? just wondering why you go with Intercept missions.

(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 11

RE: create strike package - 9/28/2017 4:55:14 PM

ghostdog

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline

great answers, i'm going to try out some of these.

(in reply to cns180784)

Post #: 12

RE: create strike package - 9/28/2017 6:24:27 PM

ultradave

Posts: 1355
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

I bookmarked this site a while ago. It may help visualize large packages as assembled during the '60s. It did help me. I believe many of the concepts are used today.

http://www.airbattle.co.uk/d_combatants.html

This was an interesting read. Thanks for the link.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to kevinkins)

Post #: 13

RE: create strike package - 9/28/2017 9:05:14 PM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
Status: offline

Same thing. Sorry, obsolete Command-ese from old versions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784

SeaQueen why do you use Intercept missions for striking the ships and SAMs when you can use Maritime Strike/ Land strike missions? just wondering why you go with Intercept missions.

(in reply to cns180784)

Post #: 14