Slitherine

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Again why are you defending the indefensible??

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Why are you rushing to the defence of those who are deserving of blame?

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you don't get that you seem like a sycophant

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when you start attacking the op

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

As funny as it is to watch Warspite1 do his pivots.. don't get too distracted.

The truth is still: the only people able to give comment in official capacity are Matrix employees. Everything we hear from them since the release is white-washing bullshit, PR brain farts and ofc most of time: *crickets*. Some old folks giving an alternative point of view is worth one more cricket to me. People have been scamed for money and they deserve compensation for that. Matrix even turned down the bare minimum token-compensations like coupons for other Matrix products without compensation of shipping cost or the like. All you get is some scripted 1st level support dudes answer that he copy and pasted from the company FAQ.
To this day they fail to deliver on every single one of their promises. I understand that is also one of RFalvo69s points: they get away with it and don't have to answer for it at all and I can very well understand that. It is not a matter of 150 buck down the drain, it is a matter of principle too. They just sit on their ears and do nothing. Everyone who has kids knows where that leads!

I think Matrix has no more reputation to loose.. and this kind of behaviour probably makes perfect sense to them.a

On a different note: I was talking to Harry about MWiF last year. We changed topics after a couple of lines about the topic and I didn't want to be too impolite (hard to be,lieve i know..). I understand he went to Matrix because he believed they would get the job done, being an established player in the market segment. Harry is not the person that would punish anyone for not getting the job done, but he is also not exactly happy about MWiF. I am glad that he made a good experience with Kickstarter for the CE and in hindsight he should have went that route with the computer version too. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Meanwhile.. white-washing and lowering the bar cannot be the way to victory. There has to be some kind of financial compensation for every customer with grievances or, at the very least, a public flocking of Matrix/Slithering.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I don't talk to children about grown-up topics..

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: PorcelainBus

"Shall I write Chinese? Japanese? French? What would make the words I write and your understanding fit nicely together in a kind of point - words - reading - understanding type way? I genuinely don't understand how you can be so off base, so out of kilter with what has been said. I'll try a different approach - I'll ask you to explain - maybe that will help. I genuinely don't inderstand how you don't understand?"

I genuinely don't understand how you don't understand? When a donkey brays it's best not to bray back????

Enjoy your game . . . .

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: PorcelainBus

Enjoy your wage - être heureux avec le cul de succion

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I don't talk to children about grown-up topics..

warspite1

Thank-you. Or in other words, you have not a clue about the topic. A bit like your knowledge of WWII. Good work. Oh and good luck in trying to find HMS Warspite in the Mediterranean eh?

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I don't talk to children about grown-up topics..

warspite1

Thank-you. Or in other words, you have not a clue about the topic. A bit like your knowledge of WWII. Good work. Oh and good luck in trying to find HMS Warspite in the Mediterranean eh?

Sure. Mr. venture capitalist, and secret armchair admiral, Warspite1 uttered some harsh judgement towards me. I am shocked..

ad Warspite: I can show you the hex where I sank her in my last game? hint: not W2034. I take special preparations to sink the HMS Warspite in your honor every game I play (with or against) the Commonwealth. It has been a lot of fun so far!

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

As funny as it is to watch Warspite1 do his pivots.. don't get too distracted.

The truth is still: the only people able to give comment in official capacity are Matrix employees. Everything we hear from them since the release is white-washing bullshit, PR brain farts and ofc most of time: *crickets*. Some old folks giving an alternative point of view is worth one more cricket to me. People have been scamed for money and they deserve compensation for that. Matrix even turned down the bare minimum token-compensations like coupons for other Matrix products without compensation of shipping cost or the like. All you get is some scripted 1st level support dudes answer that he copy and pasted from the company FAQ.
To this day they fail to deliver on every single one of their promises. I understand that is also one of RFalvo69s points: they get away with it and don't have to answer for it at all and I can very well understand that. It is not a matter of 150 buck down the drain, it is a matter of principle too. They just sit on their ears and do nothing. Everyone who has kids knows where that leads!

I think Matrix has no more reputation to loose.. and this kind of behaviour probably makes perfect sense to them.a

On a different note: I was talking to Harry about MWiF last year. We changed topics after a couple of sentences and I didn't want to be too impolite (hard to be,lieve i know..). I understand he went to Matrix because he believed they would get the job done, being an established player in the market segment. Harry is not the person that would punish anyone for not getting the job done, but he is also not exactly happy about MWiF. I am glad that he made a good experience with Kickstarter for the CE and in hindsight he should have went that route with the computer version too. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Meanwhile.. white-washing and lowering the bar cannot be the way to victory. There has to be some kind of financial compensation for every customer with grievances or, at the very least, a public flogging of Matrix/Slithering.

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

I don't understand why mr. Warspite is posting the way he is doing here (sure, it makes good reading and I've opened a nice bottle of beer and am now contemplating of opening a bag of chips to see what he comes with next...).

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Warspite,

I'm frankly amazed by how you do fail to grasp, over and over, the simplest of points - even those that you affirm to have grasped.

To recap (again). After four years (not three months, not six months, not one year, not two years, but four years) this is the situation:

Bugs
My task list is completely up-to-date. Sadly, the list is still rather daunting to look at. I’ll be going over it yet again to identify things that deserve to be corrected prior to my assault on the NetPlay bugs. [Well, good to know...]

NetPlay
I’m still holding back to making any serious changes to the code to fix NetPlay-specific bugs. But I am assembling all the notes on bugs and saved games to accompany them.

Missing Optional Rules & Half Map Scenarios
Nothing new in October.

AI Opponent (AIO)
Nothing new in October.

Are you even vaguely aware that we are not talking about a game which is "80-90% there"? What we are talking about is a program still totally up in the air, sold four years ago while still totally up in the air, and whose propaganda - both from four years ago and today - PRESENTS AS ****ING COMPLETE.

At which point you lost track of the fact that both the game official page, here, and the tutorials on YT present a product which does exists only in some imaginary alternate reality?

A product which could very possibly never be finished in any sane meaning of the word, while at the same time WitP: AE, WitE, WitW etc. are constantly refined and improved after working right out of the box in the first place?

A product for which we don't even have and never had an official bug list, forcing the players to discover them when their game explodes? (and we are not talking about a game usually completed in 2-3 hours)

A product that FORCED the buyer to buy the physical version for $150 until the fiasco was understood in its whole, humongous magnitude, and all of sudden buying the physical version was no more mandatory?

A product for which Matrix never even showed the decency to refund at least the physical expense? (the idea of flatly admitting the fiasco being firmly rooted in science fiction... "Beloved" they called this abortion on the front page only a few weeks ago...)

Some people may like to eat bad seafood and get salmonella. Good for them! (dunno... maybe they do know "workarounds"...) But, as Stanley Kubrick once said, "Even if some philosophers try to convince people that all reality is subjective, there is a world, out there, where everyone of us lives". And in this world MWiF is a shameful albatross around Matrix's neck.

We can continue this debate for pages and pages, and for days and days. This won't change the cold reality we will face next month:

Missing Optional Rules & Half Map Scenarios
Nothing new in November.

AI Opponent (AIO)
Nothing new in November.

Game finally finished as intended!
Are you kidding me?

Instructions for a refund
In your dreams.

And this is the objective world we all live in. Everything else is bullshit: accepting it will only mean that we are open to accept more bullshit - because... why next time we should behave differently?

Have made myself clear this time?

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Why are you rushing to the defence of those who are deserving of blame?

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you don't get that you seem like a sycophant

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when you start attacking the op

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I don't talk to children about grown-up topics..

warspite1

Thank-you. Or in other words, you have not a clue about the topic. A bit like your knowledge of WWII. Good work. Oh and good luck in trying to find HMS Warspite in the Mediterranean eh?

Sure. Mr. venture capitalist, and secret armchair admiral, Warspite1 uttered some harsh judgement towards me. I am shocked..

ad Warspite: I can show you the hex where I sank her in my last game? hint: not W2034. I take special preparations to sink the HMS Warspite in your honor every game I play (with or against) the Commonwealth. It has been a lot of fun so far!

warspite1

Venture capitalist? Is there a joke in there somewhere?

Can I just make sure I've got this right. You're a grown man right? And even if you play as the Commonwealth you try to get HMS Warspite sunk because you and I have exchanged words? I did read that right yes? Er...okay... that's a really great story.....

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Nothing for me to deal with - you are the one that has embarrassed himself with such a wonderful little vignette

What replacement counter?? you are not seriously suggesting that this wasn't the Illustrious used in Iceberg are you? That would be embarrassing...

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Nothing for me to deal with - you are the one that has embarrassed himself with such a wonderful little vignette

What replacement counter?? you are not seriously suggesting that this wasn't the Illustrious used in Iceberg are you? That would be embarrassing...

Well.. I think she got a flight deck upgrade late in '44 before being damaged again in Ops Iceberg. Should therefore correspond to this replacement counter:


From the KiF.. people who live in the past are excused..

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
Let's start here. What exactly do you think I am defending. And please provide the quote(s).

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
Let's start here. What exactly do you think I am defending. And please provide the quote(s).

You are defending the idea that...

...a stunningly unfinished product, still bug ridden after four years of patches (by its own developer's admission), presented and sold as finished (it wasn't, it isn't), where any game (and they are long games) can be interrupted by the next bug, and with no official warning whatsoever about the situation (only a post, here, in 2015)...

...Is a perfectly acceptable business practice because "you are having fun" (Do you want a quote? Just re-read what you wrote in this thread)

No: it isn't an acceptable business practice, end of the story. If it were, we would have an official page describing the real contents of the game (no half-map scenarios, missing optional rules, creaky MP, bugs galore).

I mean... if the game is "fun" even with all these problems, why to keep all of this under a curtain? Put all of the above front and centre in the game official page - the one from where, you know, you buy it. And add a "Tutorial 0" on YT where you explain the real situation of MWiF.

Can you give me a reason as why Matrix doesn't do this if "MWiF gives hundreds of hours of fun!!!!111" anyway? Can you give me an answer? I'm really curious.

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I don’t offer up this post to start an argument, or to suggest that what you’ve said is all wrong or that you don’t have reason to be unhappy with how things have turned out given the money you paid. But most of those things are for Matrix to comment on anyway.

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And so I conclude with this, and I do not say this to make the position with MWIF seem right, because it’s not, but I do say the following to provide some context.

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I didn’t expect the game to be in this position after four years.

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You’re angry with Matrix – okay fine, and we understand why having paid the money you did - but please don’t follow the ignorant avenue whereby that frustration makes you lash out at those people – people like you that have spent their hard earned money – who are just trying to make the best out of the situation in order to play the greatest game ever made.

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So, no Matrix, no MWIF – which, as I say, translates for me, to no WIF.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
Let's start here. What exactly do you think I am defending. And please provide the quote(s).

You are defending the idea that...

...a stunningly unfinished product, still bug ridden after four years of patches (by its own developer's admission), presented and sold as finished (it wasn't, it isn't), where any game (and they are long games) can be interrupted by the next bug, and with no official warning whatsoever about the situation (only a post, here, in 2015)...

...Is a perfectly acceptable business practice because "you are having fun" (Do you want a quote? Just re-read what you wrote in this thread)

No: it isn't an acceptable business practice, end of the story. If it were, we would have an official page describing the real contents of the game (no half-map scenarios, missing optional rules, creaky MP, bugs galore).

I mean... if the game is "fun" even with all these problems, why to keep all of this under a curtain? Put all of the above front and centre in the game official page - the one from where, you know, you buy it. And add a "Tutorial 0" on YT where you explain the real situation of MWiF.

Can you give me a reason as why Matrix doesn't do this if "MWiF gives hundreds of hours of fun!!!!111" anyway? Can you give me an answer? I'm really curious.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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What have I got for my money for the last four years?

Well I dabbled at solo to get myself back into the game. I did this via AAR which meant a lot of help and feedback was available to bridge the leap between WIFv.5 and MWIF. It felt so good to be playing again, although the games ended early because of bugs. I then played PBEM with Ormster, and now I have moved onto four-way play with AllenK, Mayhemizer and Orm. This latter is simply the best playing experience; getting to play the finest game ever made with three other like-minded individuals, to produce fun, intensely fought games, in a totally sporting, relaxed arena. The game is playable (and the proof of this are the four current AAR (see above)) - although not perfect as we all know - and we had one long suspension of the game while Steve worked on bug fixes and had to use work arounds on a couple of occasions. None of these have ruined the experience, although of course have been unwelcome.

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

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What have I got for my money for the last four years?

Well I dabbled at solo to get myself back into the game. I did this via AAR which meant a lot of help and feedback was available to bridge the leap between WIFv.5 and MWIF. It felt so good to be playing again, although the games ended early because of bugs. I then played PBEM with Ormster, and now I have moved onto four-way play with AllenK, Mayhemizer and Orm. This latter is simply the best playing experience; getting to play the finest game ever made with three other like-minded individuals, to produce fun, intensely fought games, in a totally sporting, relaxed arena. The game is playable (and the proof of this are the four current AAR (see above)) - although not perfect as we all know - and we had one long suspension of the game while Steve worked on bug fixes and had to use work arounds on a couple of occasions. None of these have ruined the experience, although of course have been unwelcome.

Here is your quote. It is from your first post out of the gate in this forum.

I'm happy for you that you have fun with your games and in writing the AARs. I still lack and answer to MY question: why Matrix, if the problems are so bland, doesn't speak about them front and center, in the official game page and on the YT channel? I mean, statements like "the list is still rather daunting to look at" and "I’m still holding back to making any serious changes to the code to fix NetPlay-specific bugs" sound scarier than how they actually are, aren't they?

Can now you share your wisdom about this perplexing choice?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Warspitey, you can at least accept the fact that multiple readers have arrived at the same conclusion about your agenda. Sometimes you don't have to spell out that your nose is brown if that is clear to see for everyone!

Your contribution to this thread is mostly pivoting away from the topic. You never positioned yourself on then blatant us-or-them topics and you now bear the consequences of that. Such is the logic of conversations; so please spare use the victimisation phase and just go directly to setting the record straight: YOUR STAGE

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805