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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

 
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 2:31:52 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Question for you guys. I used to know the answer to it but it's locked away somewhere in my old brain...

Been going over available ground units for use and discovered that at Tokyo, I have 210 AS, but it's showing up as 420 available. I know it's accurate, but can't remember why it's doubled...

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 3:00:24 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Question for you guys. I used to know the answer to it but it's locked away somewhere in my old brain...

Been going over available ground units for use and discovered that at Tokyo, I have 210 AS, but it's showing up as 420 available. I know it's accurate, but can't remember why it's doubled...


Very large air bases double the AS due to infrastructure.

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Post #: 2732
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 3:04:14 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		That's right! Thanks, Lowpe!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 3:13:21 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		AF8 = double AS
AF9 = double AS plus ability to base unlimited airgroups there without penalties.

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Post #: 2734
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 3:14:21 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Very good, thanks Michael.

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Post #: 2735
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 8:53:03 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

AF9 = double AS plus ability to base unlimited airgroups there without penalties.


Didn't know this one.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 9:41:57 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

AF9 = double AS plus ability to base unlimited airgroups there without penalties.


Didn't know this one.

The caveat is that you can load up the AF with units, but you still need enough AS to handle all the aircraft maintenance and arming or you get fractured strikes.
It is even possible to induce extreme fatigue on the air support units. I had Aden's support unit in the mid 90s fatigue before I noticed!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/6/2017 10:20:15 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yeah, I'm realizing that. I've been reading other AARs and see the futility of the Allies wasting time and resources taking base after base in the Solomons.


In several games where I've played both sides in the SW and So Pac areas, around the Solomons and New Guinea, I've developed a different take on this theatre.

For the Allies this is an economic war in several ways, not just hitting oil and hitting industry. If the Japanese fight in the South, they have to carry everything with them down there. They spend a lot of fuel, a lot of supplies, a lot of airframes (transferring planes or having them sunk on ships) and they end up losing a lot of cutoff troops and other units. Ships have a long way to go for repairs and The Allies benefit from multiple island landing areas, so Japanese strong points can be by-passed.

The Solomons are strategic and economic. If Japan fights there they suffer. If they don't the Allies end up with a lot of quickly developed bases to strike at Cent Pac and move toward the PI.


Ah, but the ROI for the Solomons is time - time to suck more stuff out of the SRA. Just because everything has to be shipped there doesn't mean it isn't economical for Japan to do so.

Also, it's really not that far for Fuel, and it's not that bad to ship supply there either.

The Aleutians, on the other hand... fighting up there is absolutely brutal for Japan. It's far for everything. It's also not strictly necessary, although one then has to hold the Kuriles in strength.

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Post #: 2738
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 5:15:47 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
The Aleutians, on the other hand... fighting up there is absolutely brutal for Japan. It's far for everything. It's also not strictly necessary, although one then has to hold the Kuriles in strength.

Japan has to fortify and garrison the Kuriles regardless. Greyjoy vs Rader became legendary exactly because Rader had neglected southern Kuriles

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Post #: 2739
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 8:41:41 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yeah, I'm realizing that. I've been reading other AARs and see the futility of the Allies wasting time and resources taking base after base in the Solomons.


In several games where I've played both sides in the SW and So Pac areas, around the Solomons and New Guinea, I've developed a different take on this theatre.

For the Allies this is an economic war in several ways, not just hitting oil and hitting industry. If the Japanese fight in the South, they have to carry everything with them down there. They spend a lot of fuel, a lot of supplies, a lot of airframes (transferring planes or having them sunk on ships) and they end up losing a lot of cutoff troops and other units. Ships have a long way to go for repairs and The Allies benefit from multiple island landing areas, so Japanese strong points can be by-passed.

The Solomons are strategic and economic. If Japan fights there they suffer. If they don't the Allies end up with a lot of quickly developed bases to strike at Cent Pac and move toward the PI.


Ah, but the ROI for the Solomons is time - time to suck more stuff out of the SRA. Just because everything has to be shipped there doesn't mean it isn't economical for Japan to do so.

Also, it's really not that far for Fuel, and it's not that bad to ship supply there either.

The Aleutians, on the other hand... fighting up there is absolutely brutal for Japan. It's far for everything. It's also not strictly necessary, although one then has to hold the Kuriles in strength.


You can keep the Allies at bay much farther back though without fighting in the Solomons with a bunch of ground troops and masses of heavily built and fortified bases. All you need is the threat of an unseen KB and a few bases to strike form at size 3-4, and some critical points that are defended.

I like fighting here from both sides, but I don't like the kitchen sink in this area for Japan. It has to be considered. And it does take a lot of supply management considering the LOC is mostly open water where Allied subs can actually have an impact as well.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 9:24:51 AM   
Annagil


Posts: 36
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Status: offline 		Updated the thread index post to all January 1942
Also, added codes o make it easier to spot the management posts among the daily reports:

■■■ to signify a pure management post
■ to signify a daily reports with an interesting bit of management

I'm now at page 30 out of the 92 of the thread.

Also, I'm getting an itch to reinstall the game again after 2 years (and possibly play it after 5 or 6 since my last actual game) and, for that, I darn you all to gamers' purgatory (hell would be too much)

< Message edited by Annagil -- 11/7/2017 9:25:20 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 9:26:40 AM   
Mike Solli


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Status: offline 		Updated, Annagil.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/7/2017 9:28:44 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 9:29:49 AM   
Mike Solli


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Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Geez, too early in the morning for me.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/7/2017 9:30:37 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 9:02:46 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Ok guys, I'm expecting a couple more days before I get the turn back from Ted. At lunch, I started reviewing my air R&D. In July 1942, I get 3 new airframes:

Ki-43-IIIa Oscar
A6M5c Zero
Ki-100-II Tony

The Tony, obviously, is the end of a line. I have 6x30 R&D factories working on it. How many factories should I switch to operational? 4? All 6? I'm thinking at least 4. What do you guys think?

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 9:54:43 PM   
Annagil


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Status: offline 		5, switching 1 off in the unlikely event of reaching a large reserve. You might want them to be filling your groups fast.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 10:04:45 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ok guys, I'm expecting a couple more days before I get the turn back from Ted. At lunch, I started reviewing my air R&D. In July 1942, I get 3 new airframes:

Ki-43-IIIa Oscar
A6M5c Zero
Ki-100-II Tony

The Tony, obviously, is the end of a line. I have 6x30 R&D factories working on it. How many factories should I switch to operational? 4? All 6? I'm thinking at least 4. What do you guys think?


Ok, I think you are the preSymon plane mode...so the Ki100 goes around 370? It is good to get it early, and it is a great bomber killer, but it simply doesn't fit into my primary fighter use. I thought it did, and was once a big proponent....

High durability, but slow compared to George, Frank and Sam. No maneuver. CL cannons. If you can get them into Allied bombers they excel, but getting them past sweeping Jugs, Corsairs are tough. SR 1 does give you some flexibility.

So for me, they are deep base protection from bombers outside of Jugs sweep range. CAP Traps versus enemy naval strikes where sweeps are unlikely to happen. Bolster night fighters. A decent escort, and can also strafe in China. One off island defense, etc.

This early, it might make for a good sweeper and probably will do very well in CAP duties for a while.

I would be far more concerned about the likely arrival dates of Frank and Sam.

Having said all that, you will have lots of Japanese territory you need to protect from B17/B29 strikes and the Tony simply is great for that role,nothing better in the IJAAF for a long time, which in turn frees up your Georges and Franks to sweep.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/7/2017 11:10:19 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Thanks for the input, guys. Still wondering how many of the R&D factories to switch to operational for the Ki-100-II. I'm thinking 120, 150 or 180 a month. Leaning toward 120 and using the 2 remaining R&D factories for some other R&D.

Lowpe, to answer your questions on when those other planes start arriving, here goes:

N1K1-J George: 12 in pool, factories are 14(16), 14(16), 14(46), should have 1st operational unit by early June. 90/month early June, 120/month early July.
N1K2-J George: Operational Aug-Sep 43
Ki-84a Frank: Operational in Jan-Feb 44, maybe a month earlier if I get lucky repairing R&D factories. Two of 8 R&D factories completely repaired, remaining 6 from 1 to 29 repaired.
A7M3-J Sam: Five R&D factories repairing very slowly, 6, 7, 7, 8, 11 of 30 repaired. No estimate on when it'll be operational.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/8/2017 12:35:21 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		No A7M2?

Your Franks are coming late...if the Allies start flexing their muscles with a deep invasion it could be tough going. To counter that is a good date for the 2nd George. George will be your workhorse, if the Allies start to fly sweeps and test out their new fighters.

Against an aggressive Allied Air strategy you will want over 200 a month production of Franks. To be honest you will probably want more Georges unless you are building Jacks too. I like Jack, but George is the more rounded versatile plane.

A lot really depends on the nature of the Allies.

Most JFB's don't account for the large IJAAF expansion in April of 1944 and the great IJNAF fighter withdraw in June of 1944.


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Post #: 2748
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/8/2017 3:31:54 AM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		Mike,

I will echo many of Lowpe's comments. My RnD strategy has greatly evolved. Fighters, more than any other single plane type determine IJ's destiny; the issue is that most of the other plane types are very minor upgrades (Sally to Helen for example). So, Frank and Sam are really important.

Some contend that replacing Val with Judy is crucial. My response is: it depends. In PBEM, it is rare to get the allies into a carrier battle before Essex arrive. By then, Judy is around with no RnD. Something to consider. Sure I want Judy with 500kg bombs, but I want better fighters sooner more ....

With serious focus, Frank can arrive in late '43 and Sam in mid-44. This is a BIG deal, particularly in PDU ON. Sam is incredibly important for the KB survival. Another strategy is to go for George first (you can get it early '43) and then pursue A7M which will then arrive late '44. George will be a HUGE upgrade for your fighter force when it arrives and really solidify your LBA, getting strong backstop when the Frank arrives. George has good range for escort and paired with Frank can create strong layered CAP defenses.

I build other models as they arrive (Tojo, Tony, et al), I simply do not allocate RnD resources to them.

Just some thoughts ...

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/8/2017 12:22:42 PM   
Annagil


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Status: offline 		Updated thread index post to all February 1942 and page 40 of this monster thread.
Half a dozen of juicy management posts there.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/8/2017 12:38:09 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ok guys, I'm expecting a couple more days before I get the turn back from Ted. At lunch, I started reviewing my air R&D. In July 1942, I get 3 new airframes:

Ki-43-IIIa Oscar
A6M5c Zero
Ki-100-II Tony

The Tony, obviously, is the end of a line. I have 6x30 R&D factories working on it. How many factories should I switch to operational? 4? All 6? I'm thinking at least 4. What do you guys think?


Ok. I was wondering for a minute, but you are in 43, so this makes more sense now.

I like the Ki-100, and the second version should be decent at this period in the war. It's also comparatively durable in addition to being service 1. I'd only make around 100/month of these.

For what to change the factories to I'd always advocate for the Ki-83. My favourite late war plane.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 12:49:15 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Guys, keep in mind I made the R&D plan 6 years ago. Back then I had absolutely no idea what I was doing (not that I have much more of an idea now). Anyway, some of the planes mentioned I'm working on and others, well not yet.

Here's my current R&D:

Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4x30, complete 7/43, will upgrade to Ki-43-IV R&D
Ki-100-II Tony: 6x30, complete 7/43, 3 will be come operational, 3 will be R&D for something else (Ki-83 maybe? Not researching that one)
Ki84a Frank: 2x30, 55 (of 60), 29, 20, 16, 3, 1, done end of 43-early 44, not sure, will continue with this line.
Ki-201: 10,7,7,5,3,3,
Ki-102b Randy: 18, 14, 13
Ki-67a Peggy: 17
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah: 18
A6M5c Zero: 6x30, complete 7/43, will continue with this line.
A7M3-J: 11, 8, 7, 7, 6
N1K2-J George: complete 9/43, N1K5 done ~1/44
E15K1 Norm: June 43
G4M2a Betty: 28, 10, not sure when done.
B6N2a Jill: 3x30, done 12/43, factories will change to something else at that time.
P1Y1 Francis: 1x30, 7.43, will continue with this line.
C6N1-S Myrt: 9, 4, 3
D4Y3 Judy: 3x30, complete 11/43, D4Y4 complete 4/44
B7A2 Grace: 21, 18, 14, 14

That's my entire R&D. So you see, no Ki-83 Obvert. I am building Georges and will have my first operational unit by the end of this month.

I need to see what awaits me with the IJAAF expansion in April 44.

Lots to think about and I have to fight a war at the same time.

Pax, I still can't send you any PMs. It keeps saying you're full.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 1:44:37 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		16 May 43

Sub War

The I-36, patrolling about 20 hexes SW of Los Angeles, missed one then put a torpedo into a second xAK.

Not much else concerning subs other than the SSX Ha-35 being put down by a couple of DDs while guarding the Shortlands Islands.

5 Fleet

Part of the 20 Med FA Regiment landed at Adak to add to the bombardment strength against the US visitors marooned there.

30 Sally sorties worked over those same Americans.

The two Japanese carrier fleets merged about 6 hexes south of Adak. Two US DDs wandered in range and were the target of an attack by 9 Kates (Junyo’s complement) escorted by 11 Zeros. They were 2 hexes west of Unmak Island so the decrepit old P-40Es and P-400s (23 total) intercepted them, shooting down 4 Zeros and all 9 Kates. Sheesh.

A handful of B-24s and Bollingers flew a few raids against Adak’s airfield losing 1 of their number to no Japanese losses. Slight damage that was easily repaired.

I moved KB to a location where it will no longer attack anything within 2 hexes of Unmak. It’s effective strength is now 106 Zeros, 36 Vals and 35 Kates.

Pretty much a waste today.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

The 2 US divisions on Munda easily destroyed the Japanese defenders (Naval Guard, Engineer company and AS). KB is hovering to the NE (undiscovered) but with no targets of opportunity.

Ted had a LOT of air sorties against Munda with a smattering of sorties against some other bases. No real damage or loss.

So, what’s next?

SRA

Nothing to report.

I may try a huge oil/fuel TF with significant ASW assets soon. Right now, my typical oil/fuel TFs are 40-50k. I haven’t had much problem with Allied subs, though they are around. I have a large number of ASW TFs and naval search & ASW air units along the route. They do a pretty good job of suppressing the subs.

Burma

Absolutely nothing happened there. Weather maybe? I’ll probably do some bombing tomorrow.

China

I’m pushing forces toward Chungking. The 3 Tank Division trashed the Chinese Corps a couple hexes east of Chengtu pushing the Chinese toward Chengtu.

A Japanese Army SW of Chungking trashed another Chinese Corps pushing it north toward Chungking.

Slow process but proceeding nicely.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement: 12 Air Flotilla HQ – arrived at Hakodate

Okayama and Kalgan – Fort level 2

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Post #: 2753
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 2:26:54 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Pax, I still can't send you any PMs. It keeps saying you're full.



Sent you email link.

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Post #: 2754
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 3:55:21 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I find the Ki-43-IV (Oscar-IV) to be completely underwhelming. Maybe useful if you could have it by now, but after late 1943 it's not very useful. As fodder, maybe. Maybe as kamikazes, at a stretch.

You have more R&D factories than I would have thought. You are almost completely lacking night fighters, though.... you should probably pick up on the Ki-102c Randy. Maybe those Oscar factories .

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Post #: 2755
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 12:33:06 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
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Status: offline 		Mike, I have a more important question. Are you retired yet?

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Post #: 2756
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 12:54:50 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Lokasenna, I understand your concern with the Oscar IV. I'll get the IIIa in July 43, and can get the IV in September 43. I'll do that to have the option of using it if needed. I've heard it's a mediocre plane with long range so it can escort and be a target. I don't like using planes like that, but at some point I suspect it'll become a necessity. In September 43, I'll have 4 R&D factories to switch to something else. There's time to figure that out.

Night fighters: I never wanted to build a lot of different plane types so I decided on 1 night fighter for each service. As I said, I made this plan (such as it is) 6 years ago. I looked at ceiling, speed, armor and SR to help make my decisions (pretty much for all fighters). Not sure if those were good choices or not, but it's what I did. I know I made a mistake with the Myrt since it comes out so late. It'll take forever to get the factories repaired. I have only 1 R&D factory on the Dinah. I need to up that considerably.

Frank: I have 8 R&D factories (2 recently converted). It's advancing slowly (2 factories done) with a couple others almost done. It ain't gonna get much better.

George: 9 factories here, 6 complete, so it's advancing nicely. I got the N1K1 this month so production is building up. I had to start 3 operational factories from scratch so they're at 15 each with 13 planes in the pool. Where do you recommend I put my first unit? SE Fleet? I expect the N2 by September and the N5 no later than January 44, probably earlier.

Ki-83: I never considered it because there is no upgrade path to it and it isn't operational until October 45 (plus 2 engines). How the heck do you get this plane early? I didn't want to dedicate 6 or more R&D factories from the start of the war just to get the plane in early 45. Too late by then.

So, back to arguing about planes...

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/9/2017 1:25:37 PM >

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Post #: 2757
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 12:55:44 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

Mike, I have a more important question. Are you retired yet?


Bruce! It's great to see you! Not retired yet. Very early 2021 is the plan. How about you?

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 1:31:08 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		One more thing about R&D (for now ).

The Sam: I opted for the A7M3 for my R&D. I should have started with the A7M2, since it come 4 months earlier than the M3. My M3 R&D factories are currently at 11, 8, 7, 7, 6. Should I just leave it or switch to the M2 and start over? Will I lose ground doing that or maybe gain a couple of months?

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Post #: 2759
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/9/2017 2:11:10 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Umnak & sweeps: Maybe place KB equal distance from Umnak that Adak is. Order ALL fighters to sweep and if they all have the same distance to fly, maybe you can put a dent into his fighter pools. Remember, for the Allies, its not the number of pilots they have to worry about, its the number of airframes. Its really hard to put a significant dent into the American fighter pilot pool, but you can do so on his front line airframes. Maybe follow up with a Full Speed bombardment TF from Adak to hit the base the day after to destroy the damaged airframes.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 2760
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