What is 'turn burn out issue'?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> What is 'turn burn out issue'?

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What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/14/2017 9:05:35 PM

yangym

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/16/2010
Status: offline

I read FAQ.
There is a word 'turn burn out issue'
I really don't know what it is.
and how it is altered.
Please help me.

< Message edited by yangym -- 11/14/2017 9:07:58 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/14/2017 9:10:45 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline

Hey there yangym dude....welcome to the forum. Ask all the questions you like....there's somebody that can answer them.
*I* can for instance. Sometimes my answer is "I don't know" but hey, that's an answer.

Turn Burn:
Back in the old days, there was the danger of using up the
entire turn in one attack by using one late arrival unit
in the attack. Not using that unit would not be such
a detrament. If it's really needed for that attack, it
might be a good idea to postpone that one attack. Execute
it later in the turn.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/14/2017 9:11:34 PM >

(in reply to yangym)

Post #: 2

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 10:11:33 AM

Tamas

Posts: 985
Joined: 1/7/2001
Status: offline

It is well explained here I think, along with what we have done make it much more friendly for new players: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4274372

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 3

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 10:48:50 AM

yangym

Posts: 20
Joined: 9/16/2010
Status: offline

Thank you for answers.

(in reply to Tamas)

Post #: 4

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 11:36:35 AM

Hoeist6634

Posts: 16
Joined: 11/15/2017
Status: offline

Well, I find It a wee bit difficult to understand. Maybe because I�m not used in playing this kind of games.

(in reply to yangym)

Post #: 5

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 1:13:12 PM

erazerhead99

Posts: 27
Joined: 5/17/2017
Status: offline

Its actually a rather original feature of TOAW.

Try to imagine you would order a battle in the real world turn based, with one hour for each turn until your enemy gets to move. You order your first company to march to some position and attack an enemy unit there. You patiently wait until they are finished and then go to your next company to do the same.. but, as the marching and attacking took 30 minutes, your next unit only has half the time available than your first one. It would be smarter to give marching orders to all your units at the beginning of the turn and to start a battle not right after unit A arrives, but to wait for the shortly after arriving units B, C and D so they can participate.

(in reply to Hoeist6634)

Post #: 6

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 4:22:07 PM

jjdenver

Posts: 2247
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline

If you move units from the rear toward the front lines (let's say a unit arrives in Poland and you want to march them up to Smolensk where the active front is)....should you move those units before executing any combats? Or will having their movement already expended increase the chance of the turn ending when you do fight a combat so you should wait to march them forward until you reach the point in combats where you think the turn will end then march them up before executing combats?

(in reply to erazerhead99)

Post #: 7

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 5:47:00 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

TOAW Tutorial - Tactical Rounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA5kbyT_9SM

(in reply to jjdenver)

Post #: 8

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 7:46:53 PM

erazerhead99

Posts: 27
Joined: 5/17/2017
Status: offline

In the scanrio you describe you should move them near the enemy unit before you resolve the combat but dont let this unit participate in the combat. Combat starts at the time of the "latest" unit of the attacking force. If you would include it, the other units would "wait" until one unit completes its long march, thus starting combat at a late tactical round and probably ending at the last - thus all other units also lose their remaining movement points.
If you, howether, start the combat before you move your other unit around, combat will end at an early combat round X and all other units will lose X percent of their movement points.
The number of tactical rounds combat takes is roughly related to the size of engagement, i think.

I hope you could follow me.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 9

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 8:19:39 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

I made a video because I was tired of explaining all this, lol

quote:

In the scenario you describe you should move them near the enemy unit before you resolve the combat but dont let this unit participate in the combat.

Correct. However, if you watch the Combat video you will see that late arriving units may contribute to combat without affecting the number of rounds expended!

quote:

Combat starts at the time of the "latest" unit of the attacking force.

WINNER !!

quote:

The number of tactical rounds combat takes is roughly related to the size of engagement, i think.

Not at all, but yes. HaHa. The more complex the engagement [more units] the higher the probability of other factors becoming involved [Proficiency of Units and Formations and their Support Levels].

It's all very simple, if you want to attack and you move a unit 75% of it's movement before attacking, then 75% of the turn will be burned. If you attack with multiple units that don't cooperate well and have low proficiency, then the combat may run longer then expected.

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 11/15/2017 8:21:24 PM >

(in reply to erazerhead99)

Post #: 10

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/15/2017 9:49:42 PM

Fred98

Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

1 - if you want to attack and you move a unit 75% of it's movement before attacking, then 75% of the turn will be burned.

OK so I move that unit to the front line, using up 75% of its movement allowance. However I exclude the unit from the attack. The units that were already there make the attack. Have I still burned 75% of my turn?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

2 - If you attack with multiple units that don't cooperate well and have low proficiency, then the combat may run longer then expected.

Does that mean this particular combat would burn up more of the turn than otherwise?

.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 11

RE: What is 'turn burn out issue'? - 11/16/2017 2:48:54 AM

Meyer1

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

1 - if you want to attack and you move a unit 75% of it's movement before attacking, then 75% of the turn will be burned.

OK so I move that unit to the front line, using up 75% of its movement allowance. However I exclude the unit from the attack. The units that were already there make the attack. Have I still burned 75% of my turn?

No. The attack will start at the beginning of the turn. How much it would last depends on many factors.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

2 - If you attack with multiple units that don't cooperate well and have low proficiency, then the combat may run longer then expected.

Does that mean this particular combat would burn up more of the turn than otherwise?

Yes. From TOAW III manual:

13.12 attack Complexity (defined) Attack Complexity increases with the number of attacking units, the distance those units move before launching their Attack, the Cooperation Level necessary for coordination between units of differing Formations, and inclement weather or difficult terrain in and around the location of the Attack.

.

(in reply to Fred98)

Post #: 12