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How to get Graphics Override working again? - 12/30/2017 8:08:25 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Well that is the question, it's seem to me that the custom sets made for many scenarios won't show up for whatever reason.
Just tried "Operation Neva - Leningrad 1944" and it seems most if not all units do not use the counter sets they should.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 12/30/2017 8:44:52 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Scenario Designers' Custom Counter Sets are not used by TOAW IV.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 12/30/2017 10:02:59 PM   
mccartyg

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 12/19/2017
Status: offline 		This is a problem. Less moddability isn't an upgrade. Nothing was broken with image databases in TOAW3 except maybe the use of any wasteful obsolete bitmapping.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 12/31/2017 12:02:19 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		One of the reasons that was typically given for not changing things pre v4 was how it would have a negative effect on older scenarios. I guess that excuse only lasted as long as it was useful.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 1/4/2018 2:05:23 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		It's not only that but many demanding scenarios will have to be worked over to get them the way they were intended to work, if that is possible at all. These scenarios are the pinnacle of scenario development, that they are in this "state" is a disappointment.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 1/7/2018 11:20:35 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		It is always a problem when developers of any product are not users of the product. It is an even larger problem when a 'project manager' does not respect designers' work.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 3/28/2018 2:55:40 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Would like to bring this up again and ask if and if so on what solution work is being done.
AFAIk Ralph somewhere mentioned that the counter sheet could maybe be expanded to have 255 icons and not only 128 like now, that would maybe be enough for the designers to use the icons they what/need.


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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 6/8/2018 7:46:25 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Do the developers consider this a problem? Is it being worked on?

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 6/8/2018 8:21:59 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

It's not only that but many demanding scenarios will have to be worked over to get them the way they were intended to work, if that is possible at all. These scenarios are the pinnacle of scenario development, that they are in this "state" is a disappointment.


As I could notice, sometimes some game mechanics that could be set as an option aren't implemented under the justification of backwards compatibility, so it is really surprising that such a basic backward compatibility issue wasn't given the same attention.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 6/9/2018 1:13:13 AM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		This is a flaw. My vote for a fix.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 6/9/2018 3:36:20 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cabido

As I could notice, sometimes some game mechanics that could be set as an option aren't implemented under the justification of backwards compatibility, so it is really surprising that such a basic backward compatibility issue wasn't given the same attention.


This is not a legitimate backwards compatibility issue. These files that don't work weren't provided with TOAW III. They were modified by end users.

This is similar to the old issue with ACOW equipment mods. Those, at the time, were .exe files that had to be run separately from ACOW. Once TOAW III came out they were incompatible with it (they literally ran a modified version of ACOW). That issue wasn't resolved until TOAW III was revised to read xml equipment files. And once that change was made, each such scenario had to have such an equipment file generated for it by the designer to get a version of his scenario that would work with TOAW III.

TOAW IV is a new game with a new graphic scheme - including the counters. TOAW III counter sheets are obsolete and are going to get even more obsolete as we expand the icon list. That will include a lot of new spare slots to allow more extensive mods than can be done now.

But I would point out that some mods can still be done now, as I have done with a few of my scenarios. My France 1944 scenarios have a mod to the Amphibious icon that looks like an Amphibious Engineer icon. My WW I scenarios have a mod to the Fighter icon that looks like a biplane icon. So it is possible in a limited sense.

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RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 6/10/2018 7:02:13 PM   
aperfecturkel

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 11/17/2017
Status: offline 		Wait, right -- if I'm not mistaken, at least some of the Vietnam scenarios use a different tile for "cropland" that looks more like rice patties than the more western farm-y look. I'm not totally sure how it's done, but I think I've seen it in at least one place in-game.

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Post #: 12
RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 6/10/2018 9:32:15 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aperfecturkel

Wait, right -- if I'm not mistaken, at least some of the Vietnam scenarios use a different tile for "cropland" that looks more like rice patties than the more western farm-y look. I'm not totally sure how it's done, but I think I've seen it in at least one place in-game.

Despite the title, this thread is about counter icons, not map tiles. there is no issue with modding those.

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Post #: 13
RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 10/20/2018 12:01:32 AM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		Has the situation improve in any way regarding the counter set?
Any progress on the possible expansion to 255 counters?

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Post #: 14
RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 12/23/2018 1:22:29 PM   
LLv34_Snefens


Posts: 254
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline 		If I could get around to fix it, it would be possible to get the scenario back in (intended) working order with the loss of only a bit of the "flavour" added with the individual counter sheets. No need to wait for any game updates.

-For headquarters I used different icons for Division, Corps and Soviet Armies for easier distinction, but only two will now be available.
-The higher tier HQs on either side (German Army/Heeresgruppe and Soviet Fronts) actually are redrawn supply units, so they will have to use same icon.
-I used unique aircraft counters for each type of plane (LA-5, Yak-7, Fw190, Bf109 etc) There are still a fair bit of different types to choose from, but some variation is lost.
-The colour of the counters, which is what is immediately obvious isn't correct atm, is one of the easier fixes, as I believe I didn't double use any sheet for different formation/sides.

Then there is the new naval system. All naval units and coastal fortress was sorta bodged, acting like armoured floating guns, rather than ships. Worked OK originally since only one side had a fleet, but that needs a complete overhaul and testing.
But what I dread most about having to open this up is really that I have to deal with a cardinal sin I made in the design phase. I deliberatly let a lot of units starts as divided in order to get a proper deployment (the germans start really thinly stretched at places). I will need to reassemble them all, make the changes, hope nothing got corrupted and then re-divide and -deploy the units.
Of course there is maybe also some new mechanics in the game that could have shifted the balance, that needs testing.

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Post #: 15
RE: How to get Graphics Override working again? - 12/23/2018 3:36:35 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		So your think you get Operation Neva back in a state close to how it worked under TOAWIII?
Would be wonderful!!!
I still do not play TOAWIV because the scenario was the one I wanted to start with when I discovered the mess they made with the counters, that pretty much killed TOAWIV for me as other high quality scenarios face similar problems, cutting all these quality scenario designs off from TOAWIV was a bad decision of such magnitude that it's unbelievable.

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