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projectile choice - 5/30/2003 8:20:14 AM   
arethusa

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: GTA, Canada
Status: offline 		In many cases, your initial load for any kind of ATG may include HE, AP, HEAT, APCR etc.

When you shoot at a target, the AI automatically chooses the best projectile for the job such as HE for infantry and soft vehicles or an armour piercing round for AFVs.

However, often your first target might be a AC, HT or LT which being armoured, will cause an APCR round to be fired since it may have the best chance of penetration. It seems to always use up the APCR ammo first against armour.

But since normally the supply of APCR is quite low, if I was the gunner, I'd want to save that really good ammo for the MBT just around the corner. In the meantime though, I have to deal with this pesky lightly-armoured vehicle and even and HE or at least a regular AP would do the trick.

Is there any way to stop the SI from using up your APCR uneccessarily until you meet the heavies?

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Post #: 1
IIRC - 5/30/2003 9:08:18 AM   
Buzzard45


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
Status: offline 		Nope:(

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Post #: 2
- 5/30/2003 11:23:38 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Not only nope, but I've never been able to figure how a unit chooses APCR over AP.

Range is important, but I've had some tanks (Centurion Mk3) that have an APCR loadout, but will never fire that round until the AP is expended. Others (Centurion Mk2) are quite happy to pop off APCR rounds at range (40+) until they're empty and then switch to AP.

Seems to me to be a random choice. :cool:

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Post #: 3
Well I know a few things - 5/30/2003 8:55:05 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		Most APRC ammo can not be shot over a distance of 10 hexes. Unless you are using a unit that has only APRC ammo then it is its max range.

A unit will use AP ammor over APRC ammo if the chance of penatration is greater than 50%. IE if I am a T34/85 and at range 10 have 102mm penatration /2 = 51mm. If I am shoting at a half track and its armor is 25mm the T34 will op fire AP instead of APRC. Now if it is a light tank with 60mm of frontal armor, the Computer will generally select APRC ammo.

On a side note, think of it this way. You are the commader of the tank you see a halftrack full of Russian Guards speeding your way to come and assualt your tank, or a tank trying to close range so it can flank, you would you use the ammo that if you hit would have a better chance of skiping or not penatrating the armor or would you use the ammo that had the best chance to destory that AFV in its tracks and worry about the next AFV when and if it shows up?

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Post #: 4
Yes, there IS a way! - 5/31/2003 6:26:45 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		You can always select HE at a slight cost to accuracy by bombarding the hex with Z-fire. ;)

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Post #: 5
Re: Yes, there IS a way! - 5/31/2003 7:39:21 AM   
arethusa

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: GTA, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]You can always select HE at a slight cost to accuracy by bombarding the hex with Z-fire. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Now that's an interesting idea! Even if it's not killed, it might get supressed enough to make it irrelevant until you can use your good ammo up on the heavier armour.

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Post #: 6
Re: Yes, there IS a way! - 5/31/2003 8:12:25 AM   
Buzzard45


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]You can always select HE at a slight cost to accuracy by bombarding the hex with Z-fire. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

That is fine for your turn but does nothing for OP fire. What would work as well, if it is only a fairly soft target is to shut down the main gun and us the AAMG. A 50cal will kill any HT and most AC. Penetration factor is around 19.

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Post #: 7
- 5/31/2003 10:22:25 PM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I've noticed recently that 'Z' fire doesn't usually cause the units in the target hex to retreat ( a particular problem with US infantry, who'll retreat if you look at them cross-eyed).

For some reason, targets of 'Z' fire just stay put and suck it up. I've found this useful if I'm firing large caliber (> 75mm) and particularly around clusters of infantry. :cool:

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Post #: 8
- 5/31/2003 11:45:36 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]I've noticed recently that 'Z' fire doesn't usually cause the units in the target hex to retreat ( a particular problem with US infantry, who'll retreat if you look at them cross-eyed).

For some reason, targets of 'Z' fire just stay put and suck it up. I've found this useful if I'm firing large caliber (> 75mm) and particularly around clusters of infantry. :cool: [/B][/QUOTE]

Ouch. ouch. ouch. :)

Thanks for the tip, Cap'n! Never noticed it - I'll try that next time I have a large caliber SPA nearby. (like my StuH babies :p)

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Post #: 9
- 6/4/2003 10:27:57 PM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Okay, I played a few Hotseat games to try to come up with some reasoning for ammo selection. The results were muddy to say the least. Lots of T-44s and BA-64s died that day. ;)

The Centurion Mk3, as I mentioned earlier, won't fire APCR (APDS for the Brits) until they've exhausted their AP. This was true at all engagement ranges I tested. The Nashorn exhibited the same behavior.

The Centurion Mk2 preferred APCR over AP at all engagement ranges (out to 50 hexes on the 17 Lber!)

The Pzkw IIIJ/L/M fired their APCR alternately with AP at about a 50/50 rate. Their APCR range is only 16, but within that range they could get off a shot or two of APCR every turn.

I would suggest that, if your armor is APCR-equipped, you don't count on it to do the right thing. It doesn't seem to be all that predictable (excepting the Centurion Mk1 & 2)

I didn't test all possible APCR-equipped units, but these examples seem to cover the gamut. :cool:

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 10
- 6/5/2003 1:41:08 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		For whatever it's worth, at least there will be some sort of rationalization in CL.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39629
:)

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Post #: 11
- 6/5/2003 1:44:48 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		The problem with Centurion Mk3 is as follows:

The AP and APCR penetration values are too close to each other. Furthermore, APCR pen is haywire. The oob figure is 255 for its APCR, but when you look at the unit data during game the max pen is listed 318. This may also confuse things.

For example when I lowered the AP pen value from 251 to 151, Centurion 3 begun using APCR normally.

Perhaps this can be fixed in the new OOB set? I ran only quick (10 minutes) test so I don't know what would be 'optimum' values for APCR to work.

Voriax

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Post #: 12
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