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Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder on modern SAMs?

 
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Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder on m... - 4/12/2018 4:57:36 AM   
fatgreta1066

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 12/30/2012
Status: offline 		If I can launch missile attacks from multiple directions against modern SAMs (like Patriots, THAADs, SA-400) does that make it more likely that some will get through? Or does that not really matter? Somewhere in between?

Thanks,

Chris
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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 6:12:09 AM   
wild_Willie2


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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		Both THAAD, Patriot and S400 use phased array track and illumination radars that can illuminate dozens of targets at the same time, so I doubt that using multiple attack vectors will help much. But the radars that are used by these systems do not rotate and can only scan an area up to an certain angle to the radar arrays orientation, so you can actually outflank these systems to the point that they can’t engage you anymore. These systems are different from older systems which use mechanically controlled target illumination radars which can be overwhelmed more easily by a multi vector attack as these systems are limited in their engagement capacity by the number of available illumination radars and the speed by which these radars can mechanically rotate and tilt in order to track and engage a target on a different vector.

W.

< Message edited by wild_Willie2 -- 4/12/2018 6:15:05 AM >

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 9:45:23 AM   
Dysta


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Status: offline 		This is why "Smart missiles" that claim to counter advanced SAM are designed for (autonomously) navigating across steep terrains at very low altitude, radars are mostly line-in-sight sensors, but usually deployed on mountain top, which will unlikely detect some missiles that is behind mountains or other solid surface obstacles.

That doesn't mean SAM aren't prepared for such of threat. Some system like S-400 will also accompany with Pantsir point defense AAs to stop some leakers.

< Message edited by Dysta -- 4/12/2018 9:47:52 AM >

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 11:07:11 AM   
Dimitris

 

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Status: offline 		It can be quite effective in 2 cases:

1) If the SAM system has a limited (non-360) illumination arc. You tie down the arc on one direction with Wave #1, and Wave #2 comes in through the temporarily blind (for illumination) sector.

2) If the SAM system supports redirection on its weapons (most missiles using datalinks support this). If the entire attack comes from a single direction, the SAMs can fairly easily switch between targets as their original targets are hit, boosting the efficiency of the defensive screen. In a multi-axis attack, once a SAM is launched towards a wave it is essentially "committed" to this wave; if it cannot be redirected to another target it is wasted.

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 11:58:43 AM   
Primarchx


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Status: offline 		One thing that reduces the effectiveness of multi-axis attacks is that outside 5nm all weapons can bear, regardless of arc. Perhaps an option to enforce weapon arcs at all times would increase realism?

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 6:46:39 PM   
fatgreta1066

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Both THAAD, Patriot and S400 use phased array track and illumination radars that can illuminate dozens of targets at the same time, so I doubt that using multiple attack vectors will help much. But the radars that are used by these systems do not rotate and can only scan an area up to an certain angle to the radar arrays orientation, so you can actually outflank these systems to the point that they can’t engage you anymore. These systems are different from older systems which use mechanically controlled target illumination radars which can be overwhelmed more easily by a multi vector attack as these systems are limited in their engagement capacity by the number of available illumination radars and the speed by which these radars can mechanically rotate and tilt in order to track and engage a target on a different vector.

W.


Is there any way to see what those arcs are in the game (without using god's eye mode or something else in the editor) when planning strikes?

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 7:16:29 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		No, there is no way of seeing those arcs, as it is IRL....

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 10:37:56 PM   
Eggstor

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Both THAAD, Patriot and S400 use phased array track and illumination radars that can illuminate dozens of targets at the same time, so I doubt that using multiple attack vectors will help much. But the radars that are used by these systems do not rotate and can only scan an area up to an certain angle to the radar arrays orientation, so you can actually outflank these systems to the point that they can’t engage you anymore. These systems are different from older systems which use mechanically controlled target illumination radars which can be overwhelmed more easily by a multi vector attack as these systems are limited in their engagement capacity by the number of available illumination radars and the speed by which these radars can mechanically rotate and tilt in order to track and engage a target on a different vector.

W.

The orientation issue only affects the Patriot (and the THAAD, though that is strictly an anti-ballistic missile weapon). The S-300/S-400 systems use radars that are capable of 360-degree rotation/detection.

As Dimitris pointed out, a multi-axis attack is still useful against the S-300/S-400 (or at least the versions of the S-400 with the 48N6/Growler A), primarily for the second reason. Those missiles still require illumination at launch and don't have unlimited datalink channels. Lots of luck getting to a S-400 (or S-350) batallion with active radar missiles on the rails because they don't require illumination at launch.

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/12/2018 11:45:01 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

Is there any way to see what those arcs are in the game


Actually I think you can. I'm not at my game right now but I think there is a check box in the Weapons dialog.

B

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RE: Do attacks from multiple directions make it harder ... - 4/14/2018 9:28:34 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

One thing that reduces the effectiveness of multi-axis attacks is that outside 5nm all weapons can bear, regardless of arc. Perhaps an option to enforce weapon arcs at all times would increase realism?


I thought that was gunfire only? I can't remember. Nevermind, I just checked the manual and it is all weapons.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 4/14/2018 9:30:25 PM >

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