Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
I had no idea that those balancing options worked other than with the AI.
Can you fill us in on the effect of the various options? This might well be a good balancing mechanism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

That statement might be just a tad lopsided buddy

My take on the whole balance debate is that if you look at the trend from AAR's of which player wins as which nation the pattern is that comparatively the more experienced a player the higher chance of them winning as either team

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

No morale losses for failed attacks might lead to more "soak-off" attacks.

How about increasing the morale gain for successful attacks in 1941? They're so rare that you get a bigger payoff.

Attacking already has a good payoff for the Soviets if you can isolate a German panzer spearhead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Like I say, man, we need to play. Put the challenge up on the multiplayer server, I have a space on my dance card now that another German opponent has taken a look at his position in December 1941 and packed it in.

Full blizzard, no Soviet attack bonus, random weather, better CV calculation, art and su +1 are my preferred options.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

No morale losses for failed attacks might lead to more "soak-off" attacks.

How about increasing the morale gain for successful attacks in 1941? They're so rare that you get a bigger payoff.

Attacking already has a good payoff for the Soviets if you can isolate a German panzer spearhead.

"Attacking already has a good payoff for the Soviets if you can isolate a German panzer spearhead."
How do you propose to do that when your units can barely move one hex into the German controlled hexes due to low morale ?
Wheat will have two or three controlled hexes protecting everything he has. You won't get near his troops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

No morale losses for failed attacks might lead to more "soak-off" attacks.

How about increasing the morale gain for successful attacks in 1941? They're so rare that you get a bigger payoff.

Attacking already has a good payoff for the Soviets if you can isolate a German panzer spearhead.

"Attacking already has a good payoff for the Soviets if you can isolate a German panzer spearhead."
How do you propose to do that when your units can barely move one hex into the German controlled hexes due to low morale ?
Wheat will have two or three controlled hexes protecting everything he has. You won't get near his troops.

Yeah, if you are cautious and methodical as the Germans, you can prevent the Russians cutting off your spearheads and breaking your pockets. Of course, you will have fewer pockets and your advance will not get as far. And the Soviets will be cranking out 150k +/- new soldierboys a turn. They sit back behind the lines getting experienced at 1-3 points a turn, and by the end of winter they will be at 45 EXP and ready to rock and roll.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lowsugar

Gamesaurus, maybe you should try a game against someone else?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: lowsugar
Gamesaurus, maybe you should try a game against someone else?

Wheat and I have played nearly every game simulation of the East Front that has existed since Game Design Workshop published Drang Nach Osten in 1973. He and I have routinely beat each other in games of this nature for years. WITE is the one exception. If this was simply a situation where he knew something about the game mechanics that I didn't, it could be fixed by me applying whatever it was...

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

All right, put me in touch with your friend. I'm seriously interested in playing. Your perception of how this game works is so different from mine, I think the only way we are going to resolve this argument is by trying it out.

BTW, I tried to pull my armor off the front for refit against Sparkleytits in winter 41-42 and had to bring them back because he was bum-rushing my infantry across the front.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: lowsugar
Gamesaurus, maybe you should try a game against someone else?

Wheat and I have played nearly every game simulation of the East Front that has existed since Game Design Workshop published Drang Nach Osten in 1973. He and I have routinely beat each other in games of this nature for years. WITE is the one exception. If this was simply a situation where he knew something about the game mechanics that I didn't, it could be fixed by me applying whatever it was...

It could be that playing each other mostly has not exposed you to other metas of playing the game that would break the winning streak? Knowing the mechanic would mean you could then make the fix?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: lowsugar
Gamesaurus, maybe you should try a game against someone else?

Wheat and I have played nearly every game simulation of the East Front that has existed since Game Design Workshop published Drang Nach Osten in 1973. He and I have routinely beat each other in games of this nature for years. WITE is the one exception. If this was simply a situation where he knew something about the game mechanics that I didn't, it could be fixed by me applying whatever it was...

It could be that playing each other mostly has not exposed you to other metas of playing the game that would break the winning streak? Knowing the mechanic would mean you could then make the fix?

What would be instructive would be for Wheat to play the "expert" Russian players here to test the validity of game impressions. If somebody here can thwart his methods, I would know there was something yet to learn. Me playing another "expert" German will only result in my getting trounced yet again and that would not provide me with a solution. If there is a Russian solution that can hold either Leningrad or Moskow in 1941, it has completely escaped me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

quote:

ORIGINAL: lowsugar
Gamesaurus, maybe you should try a game against someone else?

Wheat and I have played nearly every game simulation of the East Front that has existed since Game Design Workshop published Drang Nach Osten in 1973. He and I have routinely beat each other in games of this nature for years. WITE is the one exception. If this was simply a situation where he knew something about the game mechanics that I didn't, it could be fixed by me applying whatever it was...

It could be that playing each other mostly has not exposed you to other metas of playing the game that would break the winning streak? Knowing the mechanic would mean you could then make the fix?

What would be instructive would be for Wheat to play the "expert" Russian players here to test the validity of game impressions. If somebody here can thwart his methods, I would know there was something yet to learn. Me playing another "expert" German will only result in my getting trounced yet again and that would not provide me with a solution. If there is a Russian solution that can hold either Leningrad or Moskow in 1941, it has completely escaped me.

I have a pretty high opinion of my skills, as you can see. I'm happy to play your friend.

I loved DNO/Untenschnieden. We actually set up the whole GDW series, from Poland on, and played up to the first months of Barbarossa. Took about four years. I would totally pay a hundred bucks for a WitE/WitW combined game that starts in 1939. Or even better, 1936 with production options.

quote:

When I did that in the patch before 1.11.0, (during extreme blizzard and with 1-1=2-1) although I gained a number of Guard units and must have done some damage to the German troops, I never saw any of his Panzers... and in spring of 42 I made the mistake of attempting to defend. Two major pockets later the Russian army was down to like 3.9 million and disappearing.

At the standard settings in 41-42, the Panzer Ball is untouchable and cuts through the Russian lines like a hot knife through butter.

quote:

Before changing NM which have a huge impact on the game as steph said previously, maybe we should try to give all blizzard and attack bonus options to the soviet first. We can all agree that +1 attack bonus is not too strong for the soviet during summer.
And that Full blizzard is ok for the german during winter.

Some say there is a problem when we use both at the same time during winter. Never tested it but maybe true. Perhaps it is this we can try to modify. (Such as ending the soviet +1 attack bonus when the blizzard start instead of waiting for spring 1942).

We can also try to balance combat looses, manpower and tank production, etc...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Before changing NM which have a huge impact on the game as steph said previously, maybe we should try to give all blizzard and attack bonus options to the soviet first. We can all agree that +1 attack bonus is not too strong for the soviet during summer.
And that Full blizzard is ok for the german during winter.

Some say there is a problem when we use both at the same time during winter. Never tested it but maybe true. Perhaps it is this we can try to modify. (Such as ending the soviet +1 attack bonus when the blizzard start instead of waiting for spring 1942).

We can also try to balance combat looses, manpower and tank production, etc...

Great idea, ending the '+1' before the blizzard would be a definite help. Think it adds a lot of interest to the first summer to play with the '+1'; however IMO the '+1' during the blizzard is almost too strong even on 'mild blizzard'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand
You actual had three options with give you eight different setups for balancing. With the right settings and the right players it is a lot of fun!

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Seems this has degenerated into an “epeen” match with wheat through a third person. Interesting development but it seems to have been set up from the beginning.