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RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis)

 
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RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/15/2018 8:09:19 PM   
Taxman66


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From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		It still appears somewhat up for grabs.

How close is Germany to Moscow and Stalingrad? If Sugar can take (and hold) them long enough to send the airforce and a paratrooper back to France it will be all over.

If Sugar can't I would bet the Wallies will show up in France or NA during 1943.

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Post #: 121
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/15/2018 9:40:25 PM   
PJL1973


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Status: offline 		I suspect Sugar is still winning this. Certainly Cairo is taken. Keeping Moscow & Stalingrad is irrelevant unless German NM is at least decreasing which is a sign that the the Allies are winning the attrition war. Otherwise their fall is inevitable, even if the Allies invade France.

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Post #: 122
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/15/2018 10:21:51 PM   
Harun

 

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Status: offline 		I think Sugar's main strategy past NA is to grind the Soviets down by attrition: wipe out more MPPs than you lose yourself, and slowly, inexorably take the main cities.

Then its a simple paradrop into London after a turn or two of operating units.

I made that sound so easy. Its probably pretty hard.

Korut seems to have tried to delay in NA, while building up Russian forces (and tech, more importantly, so the air war attrition is painful.) Greece might be a nice side show, but I think he should have waited to do that. Its also unfortunate he took so many turns to get Iraq.

Its an exciting game.

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Post #: 123
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 12:24:51 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harun

I think Sugar's main strategy past NA is to grind the Soviets down by attrition: wipe out more MPPs than you lose yourself, and slowly, inexorably take the main cities.

Then its a simple paradrop into London after a turn or two of operating units.

I made that sound so easy. Its probably pretty hard.

Korut seems to have tried to delay in NA, while building up Russian forces (and tech, more importantly, so the air war attrition is painful.) Greece might be a nice side show, but I think he should have waited to do that. Its also unfortunate he took so many turns to get Iraq.

Its an exciting game.


The main mistake the allies usually make with the USSR is that they can't resist buying lots of corps and armies (and sometimes garrison) and plop them in every city and behind all the river hex they can spare to delay the Germans as much as possible. It's hard to resist the lure of those cheap units. After all you get a discount on them, shouldn't they be the best bang for your buck? They can be. This strategy will work very well vs an axis player that doesn't use overstrenght and/or tries to rush things to grab as much lands as possible as fast as possible. An Axis expert will use the opportunity to take it slow and build up experience and overstrenghting their units methodically inching towards USSR victory cities. The USSR will spend mpp after mpp resurrecting cheap inf killed in supply that can't dent the germans and won't have enough mpp to build up their big unit pool for the climatic battle in the east.

In this game (and the one vs YohanTM) I took a page of the Sugary playbook and withdrew inland and limited combat between the Soviet and Germans in 1941. The thinking is that the soviet will save mpp and the german will not have accrued an insurmountable lead in experience that will allow the Soviet to trade units close to parity when they counterattack.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 5/16/2018 2:26:35 PM >

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Post #: 124
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 7:13:03 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Status: offline 		April 42 (typo fixed!)

Air war flares up in Iraq. Germans take Thessaloniki. Three german tanks poised to attack Leningrad perimeter. With Rostov threatened Stalin recall the Siberian troops. Sub raiding on the Iraq and USSR line.

Unit count after the arrival of the Siberian troops


< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 5/16/2018 12:08:59 PM >

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Post #: 125
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 12:01:25 PM   
Taxman66


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Status: offline 		April 42, I presume.

What is the Spain/Vichy North Africa situation? Partucularly now that the RM is gone.

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Post #: 126
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 12:11:52 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

April 42, I presume.

What is the Spain/Vichy North Africa situation? Partucularly now that the RM is gone.


Good eye! I've fixed it.

Spain at 68% Axis IIRC.

All Vichy possessions are neutral.

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Post #: 127
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 5:46:49 PM   
Dorky8

 

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Status: offline 		Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.

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Post #: 128
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 6:22:05 PM   
crispy131313


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.


That's only if you want to have the game declare a winner and end the match prematurely.

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Post #: 129
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 6:34:03 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
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From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		Germany wins if they get all the following: Cairo, London, Lenningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad.

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Post #: 130
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 6:52:42 PM   
Dorky8

 

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Status: offline 		Otherwise Allies win? No draw minor victory?

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Post #: 131
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 7:35:10 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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Status: offline 		A little manual copy and paste!

quote:

For an Axis Decisive Victory, the Axis need to
capture Paris, Warsaw, Cairo, London, Moscow,
Leningrad and Stalingrad, while also retaining
Berlin and Rome.

At 8th May 1947, then the following conditions will apply:

An Axis Major Victory will be won if the Axis
hold Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London and
Moscow.
An Axis Minor Victory will be won if the Axis
hold Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris and either
London or Moscow.
The result will be an Allied Minor
Victory if Paris, London, Moscow and Washington
D.C. are all still in Allied hands.

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Post #: 132
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 10:30:00 PM   
Ktonos

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.


Believe me, since you only have to make touchdown to London and not hold it to win, that is the easy part. Hard part is to take and consolidate all three Soviet objectives. Also if Axis lost Africa and Gibraltar is still in UK hands, Cairo is almost impossible.

I think Sugar is the favorite but KZ has grabbed some advantages that might contest this game. Namely he retains Sea superiority, UK land unit count is healthy and Soviet land unit count keeps up within acceptable range with the Wehrmacht. But in my opinion whoever wins in Egypt dictates much of the game's fate. If Spain joins Axis income will skyrocket & I can't see her not doing so.

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Post #: 133
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/16/2018 11:23:06 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.


Believe me, since you only have to make touchdown to London and not hold it to win, that is the easy part. Hard part is to take and consolidate all three Soviet objectives. Also if Axis lost Africa and Gibraltar is still in UK hands, Cairo is almost impossible.

I think Sugar is the favorite but KZ has grabbed some advantages that might contest this game. Namely he retains Sea superiority, UK land unit count is healthy and Soviet land unit count keeps up within acceptable range with the Wehrmacht. But in my opinion whoever wins in Egypt dictates much of the game's fate. If Spain joins Axis income will skyrocket & I can't see her not doing so.


Guys, you're killing me. I'm totally the modern day Buster Douglas!

(in reply to Ktonos)
Post #: 134
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/17/2018 12:00:31 AM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
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From: Columbia, MD. USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.


Believe me, since you only have to make touchdown to London and not hold it to win, that is the easy part. Hard part is to take and consolidate all three Soviet objectives. Also if Axis lost Africa and Gibraltar is still in UK hands, Cairo is almost impossible.

I think Sugar is the favorite but KZ has grabbed some advantages that might contest this game. Namely he retains Sea superiority, UK land unit count is healthy and Soviet land unit count keeps up within acceptable range with the Wehrmacht. But in my opinion whoever wins in Egypt dictates much of the game's fate. If Spain joins Axis income will skyrocket & I can't see her not doing so.


Well with the US in the war Spain won't be joining diplomatically and with the RM gone, not to mention the date, I think getting it via Algiers/Casablanca is pretty unlikely too. Also with the RM gone, Italy is very vulnerable.

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Post #: 135
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/17/2018 6:49:10 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Status: offline 		Sponsoring the iraq rebel was the best money the Axis ever spent, the delayed surrender wrecked my supply situation which the Axis made good use of to win the air war around Baghdad. 2 fighters down, retreat!!!

Pictures of various frontlines



Letting attrition do its thing.



Retreating south...



First breach is made in the north.

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Post #: 136
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/17/2018 6:56:11 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

It's only a 25% chance if he does support them.
Still 8 turns seems excessive (unless it is only checking on Allied turns?)






Understood. I was calculating Sugars chance of holding.


I'd have to say this is close to even, well played on both sides. Maybe more like the Bayonne Bleeder than Buster but we'll see.

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Post #: 137
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/18/2018 11:58:20 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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In Leningrad, the army south of the city is destroyed (by air so the fortification remains). No unit can occupy the hex so another army is moved back to the fort. A garrison suicides itself to allow replacement with a sturdier corp.

In the drive towards Moskov, the germans are just short of Rzhev and Kaluga. The former recently evacuated, the latter undefended (although the german suspiciously saw a unit go through the city from north to south)...

The drive toward Stalingrad remains at Taganrov with no attack made to the city defenders. Maybe to let supply to catch up, maybe to wait for the vaunted Tiger tanks to roll off the production line... (or both?) To the west, Kiev finally falls after a long siege.

Germany tosses Italy a bone and let it conquer Syria. The Iraqi gravy trains stops with Baghdad being conquered. Axis successes in the middle east alarm the saudis (diplohit) so another smaller gravy train starts (but we'll see for how long for that one...)

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 5/18/2018 12:55:39 PM >

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Post #: 138
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/18/2018 7:58:38 PM   
Taxman66


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Status: offline 		You couldn't disband the Garrison?

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Post #: 139
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/18/2018 8:12:20 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

You couldn't disband the Garrison?


You can't if its adjacent to the enemy unfortunately...

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Post #: 140
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/19/2018 4:11:57 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Russians on the move...



< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 5/19/2018 4:14:03 AM >

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Post #: 141
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/19/2018 12:06:08 PM   
room

 

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Status: offline 		The standing up in Ukraine! Waiting for the blood

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Post #: 142
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/20/2018 12:41:38 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Status: offline 		Germany falls back in good order destroying a shock army.



Strat bombing begins in the west, two mines are knocked to zero.

Germany declare war to Estonia and Tunisia. Tunisia is conquered by paradrop.

Some rail cutting happen on the railroad leading to moskov.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 5/20/2018 12:42:05 AM >

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Post #: 143
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/21/2018 7:52:56 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Status: offline 		Yeah I think I get the timing of the war declaration/flash conquest. Basically it was to tank the allied morale for my Russian push in Ukraine. It sent my combat odds down the drain so I had to interrupt it. Probably saving Latvia for D-day.

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Post #: 144
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/21/2018 11:47:38 AM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
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Status: offline 		Sounds like an arguement to take the Baltic States as Russia.

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Post #: 145
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/21/2018 12:36:12 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Sounds like an arguement to take the Baltic States as Russia.


In hindsight, yes. Althought my Ostrov group was spared in its entirety (tac, figther, mech, corp) having two offense derailling country in the bank offsets this.

At least I made him burn one with my offensive? A little consolation prize. I rather have it happen when I'm going on offensive than when he does a final push to my 'final stand' in the east.

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Post #: 146
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/21/2018 9:58:43 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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Germany conquers Estonia, continuing to pin down the moral of the allies, very invested in the welfare of the baltic countries.





All western mines are down, the norweigian convoy is interupted has the port is brought to 0. This only slows Germany's mpp collection as their middle east gains more than compensates.



< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 5/22/2018 1:45:58 PM >

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Post #: 147
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/21/2018 9:58:56 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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Status: offline 		Its been a long time since Sugar has contributed. Whats his prospective?



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Post #: 148
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/22/2018 1:11:39 AM   
Harun

 

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Status: offline 		He's happy to see no fortifications around Moscow?


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Post #: 149
RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) - 5/22/2018 1:12:07 AM   
Harun

 

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Status: offline 		Stalingrad must be the fortified location.

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Post #: 150
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