Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Sugar

But you don`t get less supply than from the original HQ, the purple shows only it could get more from another.

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Ah! Ok so just for supply level, not taking into account HQ rating and pip.

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ORIGINAL: Sugar
It's so inconvenient and requires such carefull planning to get the best result, I find it really frustrating and also completely unnecessary, since it's only reason is to articially reduce the power of aircraft. While that might be kind of reasonable or at least debatable, there are more convenient ways to reach that goal imho.

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ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Room:
Higher supply amount better (even at levels 6 and higher)

Defensive terrain (particularly forest and I would guess urban centers/forts? {espicially with AA upgrades}), to defend against enemy planes, better.

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Last Sugar post looks like the bible. Sadly like the Bible, I don't get it

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I don't understand how it works between attachment and supply level or effective supply level relative to which HQ you re attached too who might be the closer one but might not be so the supply is diffferent but not reaaly different.

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

As for air balance, I think with the future change of shifting one tac for one medium will get it just perfect. With a bit of AA and defensive terrain air force are not the death star some (including me!) portrays them to be. The fact that massing air in NA is a relatively standard play can gives the wrong impression of its effectiveness overall. In NA there a lack of defensive terrain means airforce can blow up units left and right (when the weather cooperates!) because there's nowhere to hide. Different battlefield, different outcome. On my last turn I had tons of max tech bombers getting 2:0 odds to tanks tucked in german forests.

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ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

As for air balance, I think with the future change of shifting one tac for one medium will get it just perfect. With a bit of AA and defensive terrain air force are not the death star some (including me!) portrays them to be. The fact that massing air in NA is a relatively standard play can gives the wrong impression of its effectiveness overall. In NA there a lack of defensive terrain means airforce can blow up units left and right (when the weather cooperates!) because there's nowhere to hide. Different battlefield, different outcome. On my last turn I had tons of max tech bombers getting 2:0 odds to tanks tucked in german forests.

I suspect your poor combat odds probably have more to do with relative experience and effectiveness levels than they do with the fact that the tanks were in forest. I have had fully entrenched Armies in Cities with good AA destroyed by air attack alone. Not saying the forest doesn't help, I just doubt it was the most important factor.

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


Long range is king. More so than I previously though. The obvious benefit is of course being to hit other when they can hit you but there's more. Having long range means you can space out your Air HQs more and still support each other. And by being spaced out more you can make better use of defensive terrain because planes can be further from the HQ without starting to get supply from an other HQ.

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ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


Long range is king. More so than I previously though. The obvious benefit is of course being to hit other when they can hit you but there's more. Having long range means you can space out your Air HQs more and still support each other. And by being spaced out more you can make better use of defensive terrain because planes can be further from the HQ without starting to get supply from an other HQ.

Hate to say I told you so (well actually I love it), but repeated below is my post mortem post from our game. See point 1.

"This Axis Strategy is essentially as follows:

1. Prioritize Advanced Aircraft tech and also research Long range aircraft (more important than many people think)
2. Build the Manstein HQ ASAP,
3. Build all your Fighters, Tanks, TAC and, if possible, HQs prior to DAK arrival (I believe this is pretty standard anyway),
4. Get Spain on the Axis side, preferably by diplomacy,
5. Send Manstein to Libya to join Rommel (well actually even before Rommel arrives)
6. Use the Luftwaffe on mass, first to take Malta, then Egypt, then Russia. If necessary also use the Luftwaffe on mass to take Algeria and the Middle East.
7. Don't be afraid to "operate" the Luftwaffe to wherever it is needed.
8. Don't rush Barbarossa. Generally speaking, the only time Axis MPP production is greater than Allied MPP production is from the fall of France until Barbarossa.
9. When using the Axis Air Force, generally concentrate on destroying the enemy's fighters and HQs first, not the front line units. I often neglect this one myself.
10.Once Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad have been captured, destroy whatever unit is in London with the massed Luftwaffe and then drop a paratrooper. Game Over."

I believe this is the strategy that Sugar used in this game as well. The only difference is that he was perhaps a bit laggard in getting Spain on his side. Of course, it is not just that Sugar has a great strategy, but he that he executes it perfectly (or close to perfect anyway).

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


The air units were managed by 3 pip Eisenhower, 2 pip Bradley and 2 pips Montgomery.

But yeah, next time I'll also wait for supply to raise back to 10 before sending my planes on the mainland...

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

If you want to do a rematch I'm game. After going through the Sugar bootcamp, I might have reached skill parity with you now.

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ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

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ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

If you want to do a rematch I'm game. After going through the Sugar bootcamp, I might have reached skill parity with you now.

I always thought your skill (and certainly knowledge of the Rules) was at least equal to and probably superior to my own. You are certainly giving Sugar more of a run for his money in this game than I did in mine with him. It is not your skill that was ever in question, but your strategy. You rely on uber-diplomacy which, in my opinion, is too dependent on luck. I don't blame you for using it any more than I blame Sugar for using mass air attacks. Both are within the Rules and totally acceptable. It is just not a game I care to play anymore. Perhaps I will come back around, but at the moment I haven't started a game in several months.

So thanks for the offer, but I think I will pass for now. But I did very much enjoy the game we did play. You are an excellent opponent and gentleman. I am also very much enjoying this AAR.

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ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Hate to say I told you so (well actually I love it), but repeated below is my post mortem post from our game. See point 1.

"This Axis Strategy is essentially as follows:

1. Prioritize Advanced Aircraft tech and also research Long range aircraft (more important than many people think)
2. Build the Manstein HQ ASAP,
3. Build all your Fighters, Tanks, TAC and, if possible, HQs prior to DAK arrival (I believe this is pretty standard anyway),
4. Get Spain on the Axis side, preferably by diplomacy,
5. Send Manstein to Libya to join Rommel (well actually even before Rommel arrives)
6. Use the Luftwaffe on mass, first to take Malta, then Egypt, then Russia. If necessary also use the Luftwaffe on mass to take Algeria and the Middle East.
7. Don't be afraid to "operate" the Luftwaffe to wherever it is needed.
8. Don't rush Barbarossa. Generally speaking, the only time Axis MPP production is greater than Allied MPP production is from the fall of France until Barbarossa.
9. When using the Axis Air Force, generally concentrate on destroying the enemy's fighters and HQs first, not the front line units. I often neglect this one myself.
10.Once Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad have been captured, destroy whatever unit is in London with the massed Luftwaffe and then drop a paratrooper. Game Over."

I believe this is the strategy that Sugar used in this game as well. The only difference is that he was perhaps a bit laggard in getting Spain on his side. Of course, it is not just that Sugar has a great strategy, but that he executes it perfectly (or close to perfect anyway).

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ORIGINAL: Elessar2

The funny thing is that almost all of that is wildly ahistorical. If real-life supply issues wouldn't limit or prevent it (even just getting supplies into Sicily so as to bomb Malta to oblivion would have been problematic), then real-life brute force constraints would (there are only so many bombs you can drop). I too can (post-the fall of France) easily and quickly nuke every British air unit in range with my massed bombers and Stukas; if it were that easy, then the Battle of Britain would have been a total cakewalk (vs. the Stuka being quickly pulled from front line units).

Someone really needs to work on a more historical scenario with realistic constraints, where possible/moddable/scriptable.

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ORIGINAL: Sugar

According to Churchill's "The second World War" he prepared the new governour of Malta to probably hand it over to the Axis after the attack of the X. Fliegerkorps in autumn/winter 41/42 and again in 42 of the entire Luftflotte 2 (one of the 3 german Luftflotten). How could the Axis be able to occupy Crete, an island of 8261 square KMs, but not Malta of 316 divided to 2 islands, defended by a fraction of forces?

One of the 2 am. airfleets (15. Air Force) participating in the european theatre was placed in - tada - Tunesia (Catch 22 anyone?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15th_Expeditionary_Mobility_Task_Force

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ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Yes.
More than once ive been unable to fully reinforce an air unit in a supply 6+ hex because it was attached to the wrong hq

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I know they will be under supplied, and have noticed that they can get some supply when located in cities/towns...

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But if you are saying that because the 15th air force was stationed for a period of time in Tunisia this shows that massing aircraft in North Africa was possible, I disagree.

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ORIGINAL: Sugar

At least it's a question of balancing, any further restriction has to apply to both sides. According to KZ the balancing has improved to a satisfying lvl, and this match is proving it somehow, because it anticipated the major change of the coming patch; I was able to reach my goals even without Spain.

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ORIGINAL: GiveWarAchance

I am reading this AAR now but sorry it will take me a long time cause I am a slow reader and reading a good AAR like this makes me very antsy to play the game.

I am wondering why you need to spend chits on wooing the USSR when their war entry is guaranteed (or is it not?). If you chit on them, does it give them more MPP for readiness or something?
I think it is good for Germany to chit on Spain and for the UK to chit on Sweden and maybe Finland going by my own game experiences.

Sorry for many annoying noobie questions and noob comments, but what is a 'DE 603'?