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RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 9:29:07 PM

zuluhour

Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
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This might work on scales

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Post #: 31

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 9:47:30 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

Of course, done that in all my matches, its really easy to do. Aaah the joy of loading someone elses turn up...cant describe.

< Message edited by Gr�fin Zeppelin -- 3/13/2016 9:48:07 PM >

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Post #: 32

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 10:05:38 PM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

Thats something entirely different. You women usually get away with close to everything...

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Post #: 33

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/13/2016 11:54:07 PM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

Professional software developers? Here? That's disgusting, I'm out.

:Don't tell anyone you once made video games for a living:

What was I saying? Oh, I remember... I can't hang out with you guys anymore.

< Message edited by Revthought -- 3/13/2016 11:55:06 PM >

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Post #: 34

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 12:13:27 AM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

not interested in hacking, I am not a computer nerd, but I just want to know if the files are indeed safe.

We spend many years in a PBEM game, so if it can be hacked, that would really upset the PBEM game for me

As people have pointed out, Pac War is a very old game with very little in the way of security. War in the Pacific has much better security and War in the Pacific AE stepped that up even further. The team who did all the worked evolving WitP to AE had corporate IT experience and did quite a bit to make it difficult to hack any part of the saved game file.

The internal workings of the files for Pac War and AE have about as much in common as a 1962 VW Van and a new Tesla Model X. There are some common elements (steering wheel, tires, etc.), but they are very different beyond the basics.

Bill

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Post #: 35

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 12:57:22 AM

Revthought

Posts: 523
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

� It was pointed out to you that the thread about the game file hacked which you linked to was a different game.
� If someone works at it enough and has enough skills/knowledge, any file like that can be "hacked" by guessing the password eventually. That does not make the concept of PBM "dead" any more than burglars make the concept of houses dead.
� You missed the discussion about a player, not a regular on this forum, who (apparently) hacked the game using development tools and changed a bunch of settings on his side. "Roy" (IIRC) ran an AAR in a forum (I think in Germany but don't recall for sure) where as the Allies he very methodically started totally kicking his opponent's butt early on, counter-invading and such with forces that would have been crushed had he not cheated. People figured out "no way!" and eventually he admitted what he did. Even that did not make the concept of PBM "dead".
� There are a number of professional software developers on the forum who play PBM. Undoubtedly they have the skills and could, if they wished, do the same thing that "Roy" did, but they don't.
� "Trust and all that crap" is all that you have ever had, you just didn't understand that.

My advice is stop worrying and have fun!

I want a link to this AAR. If it's in German, I can't read it, but I love internet drama. GoGo Google Translate!

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Post #: 36

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 1:46:23 AM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

or even that another player can inadvertently cross-polinate the AARs if reading both sides,

I won't even read both sides if I intend to comment, just so I don't accidentally give anything away.

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Post #: 37

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 11:22:35 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

There is no PBEM server for AE. Which means that an AE PBEM saved game can only be hacked by those who directly receive the file. In the ordinary course of a game that means either the Japanese or Allied player is hacking the game.

When someone raises this issue, what they are really saying is that they believe their opponent (either by themselves or by a friend of theirs):

1. Has hacked the saved game file.

2. Is hacking the saved game file.

3. Intends to hack the saved game file.

There is no other possible interpretation as any electronic file is potentially liable to be hacked, just as sending a snail letter can be opened in transit or incorrectly delivered and mistakenly opened by the recipient. Such a fear would preclude sending any emails ever as they too can be sent to the wrong people.

The only remedy for such paranoia is to not play PBEM at all.

Of course if one is simply being outplayed by a PBEM opponent there is a much simpler answer than the opponent is hacking the saved file. Ockham's Razor applies and the opponent is simply a better player.

Alfred

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 38

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 1:24:43 PM

guytipton41

Posts: 351
Joined: 2/26/2011
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is no PBEM server for AE.� Which means that an AE PBEM saved game can only be hacked by those who directly receive the file.� In the ordinary course of a game that means either the Japanese or Allied player is hacking the game.

When someone raises this issue, what they are really saying is that they believe their opponent (either by themselves or by a friend of theirs):

1.� Has hacked the saved game file.

2.� Is hacking the saved game file.

3.� Intends to hack the saved game file.

There is no other possible interpretation as any electronic file is potentially liable to be hacked, just as sending a snail letter can be opened in transit or incorrectly delivered and mistakenly opened by the recipient.� Such a fear would preclude sending any emails ever as they too can be sent to the wrong people.

The only remedy for such paranoia is to not play PBEM at all.

Of course if one is simply being outplayed by a PBEM opponent there is a much simpler answer than the opponent is�hacking the saved file.� Ockham's Razor applies and the opponent is simply a better player.

Alfred

Hi Folks,

When I started the thread last year about crowd sourcing AE2 the one objection that really stopped me cold was: "If the source is out there nobody would play because the other person could be modifying the it." So I was leaning toward a PBEM server where the turns would be submitted for execution. However this thread makes me suppose that is overthinking the problem. Perhaps trust would be a better solution.

In my real job we're looking at running a Power PC program on a X86 using a VM with QEMU. Performance is inadequate so we are intercepting opcodes in runtime and identifying which ones can executed in native mode. QEMU already does this (translation blocks) but we're being much more aggressive. The take away is - anything that can be run in a VM can be trivially modified - even when going out to a PAM. And very few programs can not be run in a VM.

Cheers,
Guy

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 39

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 2:19:21 PM

JockJimmy

Posts: 37
Joined: 5/17/2013
Status: offline

9673 975362

HEIL HITLER.

Is this a ref. to one of the tricks that ULTRA used when breaking enigma? (That the Germasns often signed off using this tag.)

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 40

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 3:25:46 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Sorry, you need not worry about this. Very little cheating that I have seen in my ten years here. To be honest, I am little worried about someone hacking my porn collection. But not my AE password......

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Post #: 41

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 3:40:54 PM

BillBrown

Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Sorry, you need not worry about this. Very little cheating that I have seen in my ten years here. To be honest, I am little worried about someone hacking my porn collection. But not my AE password......

Be careful around the Gorn, he likes human porn.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 42

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 3:46:57 PM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Sorry, you need not worry about this. Very little cheating that I have seen in my ten years here. To be honest, I am little worried about someone hacking my porn collection. But not my AE password......

Be careful around the Gorn, he likes human porn.

Because Gorn porn is easy to follow.

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Post #: 43

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 4:05:15 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Sorry, you need not worry about this. Very little cheating that I have seen in my ten years here. To be honest, I am little worried about someone hacking my porn collection. But not my AE password......

Be careful around the Gorn, he likes human porn.

Because Gorn porn is easy to follow.

I think the Gorn uses human porn as a menu.

....GP

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Post #: 44

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 5:59:20 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JockJimmy

9673 975362

HEIL HITLER.

Is this a ref. to one of the tricks that ULTRA used when breaking enigma? (That the Germasns often signed off using this tag.)

That's a winner!

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Post #: 45

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 6:12:13 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

The next clue was going to be coded: "You have to think like Khan Noonian Singh" - making the Khan/Benedict/Alan connection. That would have thrown some people off because of Spock saying "He's displaying two dimensional thinking" from the Ricardo Montalban version.

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Post #: 46

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 6:24:13 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
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The next clue might have been "Don't go tearing up the cucumber patch"

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Post #: 47

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 6:24:46 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

This might work on scales

So, did you get your money back?

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Post #: 48

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 6:27:28 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

That looks like Ghengis Khan's helmet.

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Post #: 49

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 6:36:47 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

This guy used one. Look at all his hair!

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Post #: 50

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/14/2016 6:40:48 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

It worked for this guy too. He got thick, healthy hare in just 30 days.

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Post #: 51

RE: PBEM files hacked - 3/15/2016 12:17:06 AM

Marshall

Posts: 225
Joined: 4/18/2014
Status: offline

We can close this thread

Result is that they can hack the Pentagon, so they can hack a file, but the thread I read was a very old one and not applicable to the current game.
Curiosity and apprehension has been satisfied.

Tips to avoid hacks where: do not play Chinese players, or Russians (really people! I had a great PBEM game with a Russian) and not use single character passwords.
And Devs can redeem lost passwords, as they have the source code.

Case closed for me.

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Post #: 52

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 11:14:57 AM

ericv

Posts: 325
Joined: 1/21/2012
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It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

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Post #: 53

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 4:06:58 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Many PBEM players even exchange passwords purposefully. Then, if one receives a turn that wasn't properly advanced by his opponent, he can open the turn, advance it, and then run it.

In my recent game with John III, he had my password for the final 2.5 years of the game. I think I had his, too, somewhere in my email files.

Most opponents become close friends. There is a deep and abiding mutual respect. Often there is affection, comradeship, and loyalty.

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Post #: 54

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 4:10:47 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

And just why did you think it necessary to resurrect a dead thread?

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Post #: 55

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 4:30:20 PM

Lecivius

Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

And just why did you think it necessary to resurrect a dead thread?

I have to admit, I was curious as to this as well.

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Post #: 56

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 4:58:31 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

And just why did you think it necessary to resurrect a dead thread?

I have to admit, I was curious as to this as well.

A form of necrophilia?

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Post #: 57

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 4:58:38 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

And just why did you think it necessary to resurrect a dead thread?

I have to admit, I was curious as to this as well.

Yeah, me too. Who would want to HACK a password? And then have to nerve to play the game?....GP

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Post #: 58

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 5:08:26 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

And just why did you think it necessary to resurrect a dead thread?

I have to admit, I was curious as to this as well.

Yeah, me too. Who would want to HACK a password? And then have to nerve to play the game?....GP

A long time ago - I forget which year it was - there was a WITP (AE or plain I don't recall either) AAR on a German game forum called to our attention here on this forum where this Allied player was absolutely cleaning up. IIRC he had done so in prior games as well. To make a long story short, it was found (and I guess he eventually admitted) that he used software development and diagnostics tools to hack the game in progress (whether in memory or in save format on disk I don't know). Used it to jack up stats of various things, so it was really like his opponent was playing against the space invaders who had warp technology.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 7/11/2018 5:09:43 PM >

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Post #: 59

RE: PBEM files hacked - 7/11/2018 5:17:19 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

It is rather easy to get the others players password. It can be done in a couple of minutes.

And just why did you think it necessary to resurrect a dead thread?

I have to admit, I was curious as to this as well.

Yeah, me too. Who would want to HACK a password? And then have to nerve to play the game?....GP

A long time ago - I forget which year it was - there was a WITP (AE or plain I don't recall either) AAR on a German game forum called to our attention here on this forum where this Allied player was absolutely cleaning up. IIRC he had done so in prior games as well. To make a long story short, it was found (and I guess he eventually admitted) that he used software development and diagnostics tools to hack the game in progress (whether in memory or in save format on disk I don't know). Used it to jack up stats of various things, so it was really like his opponent was playing against the space invaders who had warp technology.