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Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 7/1/2018 11:45:19 AM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		I run Windows 10 at 150% DPI scaling at 2560x1440.

If I run the game with the compatibility setting Override > System (Enhanced), everything is of course blurry, but using Override > Application, there are other issues, like for instance the right-side information controls loses text to overflow, and it appears also it cannot be resized, like the bottom panel can be.

See screenshot:
https://imgur.com/1vnIYX9

Any way to fix this?

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 7/1/2018 12:10:13 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 7/2/2018 8:05:58 PM   
WildCatNL


Posts: 513
Joined: 3/27/2009
From: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Hi. Thanks for reporting this.

I also run at 2560x1440 (dual Dell 25" monitors), at 100%. At 100%, no problems.
For me, switching to a global DPI setting of 150% (w/o reboot) gives a larger font, but w/o text overflowing. Enabling the global "fix scaling for apps" seems to apply a image processing filter w/o any changes to font size or overflow.

William

_____________________________

William
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 2
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 7/2/2018 10:29:37 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Yes - by default, Windows will see the application does not support DPI scaling, since you do not specify it in the manifest, so it will use its own (lossy) scaling to scale the window. If it does this, *everything* in the application is scaled, resulting in blurry fonts and bitmaps.

The System (Enhanced) override setting improves this a little bit, it's a massive improvement over Windows 7/8, but still I get a bit of a headache after playing for a long time with blurry fonts.

Try it yourself by going into properties of the FPRS.exe and DPI Settings, then choose Override, and Application, or System (Enhanced).

Examples:

System (Enhanced):
https://i.imgur.com/DZdIM7V.png

Application:
https://i.imgur.com/9wLO1jD.png

Obv. you need to see these images without any browser scaling etc, at your native res to see the difference. The Application setting is much crisper, but suffers from text overflow.

This could be fixed easily if just the right panel was resizeable like the bottom one is. And preferably the game would remember the panel size for the next session.



(in reply to WildCatNL)
Post #: 3
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/1/2018 9:06:40 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Hi,
has anything been looked into on this issue?

It would be a massive improvement if the right-hand dialog object could be resized, similar to the bottom Diary dialog.

Also for things to work you'd need to make the Game Resolution object resizeable to the bottom as well, since there is a lot of text disappearing below the edge there.

Screenshot, the red borders need to be resizeable:

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 4
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/1/2018 10:29:35 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		I'm going to see if I can replicate to situation. Switching to 150 makes everything on my screen get bigger, but running the game shows no size change. I'll try after a reboot next. I don't want to tamper with the advanced scaling setting, that is not a stable actor.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 5
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/2/2018 7:49:41 AM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Yes - I might not have been clear enough in my older posts. To reproduce it, you need to go into the Properties of the exe, to compatibility, and change DPI settings, then override with "Application". Because the default is "System" and it makes everything bigger, but also blurry from scaling.

With override = Application, the game looks great and text is crisp, it would be a shame if people were forced to play it blurry, just for this one small issue. I've looked through other dialogs in the game, and most look fine, just the right-side controls has this problem.




(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 6
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/2/2018 3:30:34 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Thanks for the detailed explanation. I will look at it this evening again.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 7
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/2/2018 4:12:54 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn997338(v=vs.85).aspx


i only upload to show each and every view is hardware dependent tbh, what works on one persons hardware may or may not work the same on someone else's either (or look the same) as it's software and hardware and driver issue, with a different monitor throwing it even more into the mix.

while some software supports it, others don't, and time spent to update and alter / change and or patch fix, is it worth it for those who run war games? for me do the math's, with a larger % of war gamer's still not even on windows 10, with hardware to match. 

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-change-high-dpi-settings-classic-apps-windows-10-april-2018-update


with monitors now going from 5k to 8k and more, the problems user who go for this high tech end, will be larger, as none were ever programmed to be viewed at higher than a given res,...

quote:

In the case of 8K, this means a horizontal resolution of 7680 pixels and a vertical resolution of 4320 pixels, or 4320 resolution video.

By comparison, 4K video has half the number of horizontal lines and half the number of vertical lines (3840 x 2160), for a resolution of 2160. Full HD is 1920 x 1080, or 1080.

All this combines to mean 8K has four times as many pixels as 4K, and 16 times the number of Full HD.


it's taken 7 years+ for 4k, the move to go higher will maybe be a bit sooner, but games are always behind movies and TV.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 8
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/2/2018 4:27:00 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

The new DPI scaling settings are only available for traditional desktop (GDI-based) apps. Windows Store apps cannot be configured with these options because they're already optimized for high pixel density displays.


quote:

Here are some of the current limitations with the new option:

GDI+ and DX content don't DPI scale.
Bitmap-based content won't look very crisp.
You need to enable the option on each app to see if it works.


so unless a given program was designed to use the newer feature in windows 10, it may or may not work, so not saying don't try it, but unless the developer has coded for it, it may work on one set of hardware still and not on another, as there's too many variables in the mix's to say it will work with all hardware and res etc, but by all means try, look forward to seeing the outcome myself, as the part goes for all windows 10 users and programs.

so not a negative post, but trying to be positive, as this type of new tech on pre windows 10 games has been posted before

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 9
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/2/2018 4:58:53 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Well, since all these new high-resolution displays are coming - all the more reason to do the changes needed to display your application properly on them, isn't it

But the fact is, 4K displays was pushed out by the monitor vendors way before the most software was ready for it - meaning the last years have been a battle for developers to keep up. Unfortunately, many developers don't even know about DPI scaling, or how to deal with it. And true, especially for niche wargames, with their small grognard market and diminishing profits, it might not always be worth it. But do we want a situation where the games we love are stuck in a world where the 1990s 1024x768 CRT monitor is the only system they can be played on?

Anyway, this is all very well documented from Microsoft, and what steps needed to be done for developers to make their applications work on hi-DPI displays.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/hidpi/high-dpi-desktop-application-development-on-windows

What we are talking about is just applications being able to handle when people like me use DPI scaling, for various reasons like bad eyesight and so on. 1440p isn't exactly "hi-DPI" either.

FPRS isn't even too bad, the developers seem to have used pretty much standard Windows controls in the UI, and it actually looks pretty good with scaling, like I said. The fix needed is simply to be able to just drag the right-most part of the UI out, to fit the text, but it lacks the controls to do so. It really should be a simple fix.

Bigger problem is of course the size of the bitmaps, like terrain tiles and the counters, and this is a bigger task to fix, as the game would need to provide different tiles and counters for different resolutions. Not impossible to do, but a lot more work obviously. Hopefully they can do this in their new game, as the terrain and units would otherwise be *really* small in for instance 4K. Not that I have any plans to move to 4K in any near future, and I would advise against it for anyone else as well.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 10
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/2/2018 5:20:09 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		agreed, to a point, but i'm old and still remember DOS and user who wished still to this day have it working on windows 10 without any issues or tinkering

i haven't gone down the 4k route, one for my game atm it's not worth it, while i have a high end gaming rig and only use a 5 year old pc for testing, i have some other equally older parts to also test on, so can have and still test on quite a few O/S if needed, but regarding monitors, for me i have a max of Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz) so not even a 100Hz version

with other older screen all being the same res, but lower spec.

but yes it's the bitmaps which will be the issue, getting the font's less blurry is one thing, but to upscale others is something altogether harder and more difficulty without re doing them mostly and that's costly and not worth the costs, as they were never intended to be larger than what was the default at the time, which is, yes 1920 x 1080 FHD or “Full HD” circa 2011 with 2008 the computer industry started switching to 16:9 but the take up and cost's were high so didn't become the norm until 2011,...

with 7680 X 4320 8K UHD already out in the world and pre view models of 10 to 12k plus, the worlds gone mad, but the war gaming market will be i'd say 5 to 8 years maybe more behind the TV and movie section.





steam survey report July 2018 makes for interesting reading tbh on many subjects from 125 Million "Active" Steam Accounts, not saying everyone did it, just a number floating about in the air

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/2/2018 5:25:15 PM >

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 11
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/4/2018 2:18:53 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Just as some points of interest in Southern Storm and beyond. We are upsizing all of the art for counters, map markers, and platform sils in the range of 2X or better. We will also look at other art elements for larger base sizes and scale things such that going over 100 zoom still looks good. There are no terrain tiles. The map is a single file at a set size/resolution combo. I will have to chat with Willam and see what is possible for a hi-res set of maps for folks with these 4k+ monitors. We are also dealing with a lot of the side and bottom panel UI/UX issues be making them float and also roll-up or hide as the player wants.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 12
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/4/2018 2:26:57 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		that's good news, as like everything in life now days, building for the future even on the steam stats does make sense, as if only 2% of the 125 million steam users have above 1920 x 1080, if only a small % all used and bought the game, i'm sure they would all be much happier in the Knowledge it would scale better on there latest hardware.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 13
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/4/2018 4:26:51 PM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		Thanks for the information Cap'n.

The map and counters aren't actually such a huge problem, if you have a good scaling method for zoom levels. So even if counters or terrain are too small, user should be able to zoom in and set a preferred zoom level. FPRS doesn't look too bad zoomed in either.

Were you able to repro the issue I'm seeing? You run 1440 on a smaller monitor than I have, so text will get even smaller. I could probably run 125% on my 27" but I really like to not have to strain my eyes.

Any chance any things you learn in regards to scaling during the development of Southern Storm will be put into FPRS too?

I think it's not a big fix to enable resize controls for the relevant UI parts. Although a fix for the other issue I reported (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4501833) might be more work.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 14
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/11/2018 1:33:20 PM   
drhyed

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 4/23/2015
Status: offline 		So thats all alot of info to read but it didnt really make clear how I can fix the issues, I cant give orders and tell units to rest once they arrive... kind of a big issue




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by drhyed -- 8/11/2018 1:34:16 PM >

(in reply to Shadrach)
Post #: 15
RE: Unable to resize the right-hand controls? - 8/12/2018 10:32:07 AM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		drhyed: That's not really the same issue as being discussed here, although it might be related to DPI Scaling.

Make a new thread and post your resolution and DPI Scaling setting, as well as check if you have Override DPI Scaling set to "Application" in the properties of FPRS.exe.
Also explain why you cannot give orders, are you unable to click on the buttons? The "On Call" is greyed out, but pressing Enter should give "Hold".

(in reply to drhyed)
Post #: 16
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