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Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance!

 
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Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 11:35:55 AM   
MonsterZero


Posts: 17
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline 		How to deal with destroyed bridges to make the rivers faster to cross?



< Message edited by MonsterZero -- 8/13/2018 11:36:27 AM >

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 12:06:01 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterZero

How to deal with destroyed bridges to make the rivers faster to cross?



Check if your got engineers to fix the. For RR bridges you need RR engineers though. What scenario are you playing and did you check out my tutorials out?

Tutorial '41: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4382552
Tutorial '42: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4387818
Tutorial '42 - Editor: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4401098
Tutorial '43: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4390285
Tutorial '43 - Combat: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4394374
Tutorial '44: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4397183
Tutorial '45: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4412329

Klink, Obesrt

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 1:06:37 PM   
MonsterZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
What scenario are you playing and did you check out my tutorials out?
Klink, Obesrt


The destruction of Army Group Center AKA Bagration 1944.

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 4:49:35 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
What scenario are you playing and did you check out my tutorials out?
Klink, Obesrt


The destruction of Army Group Center AKA Bagration 1944.


Well... the Soviets have plenty of Sappers and Ferry Engineers. What side are you playing then?

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 5:01:01 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		This is just my opinion but it seems bridge blowing is way over simplified in this game. Not every unit is qualified to do that. It should at least have an engineer squad and even at that it should not be able to blow up each and every bridge it comes across. There is a limit to how many explosives an engineer squad can carry. Then you run into the size of bridges. One unit can conceivably blow up every bridge on the Rhine in a short time regardless of whether or not the bridges were wired beforehand. This aspect of TOAW has always played very loose.

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 5:18:50 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

This is just my opinion but it seems bridge blowing is way over simplified in this game. Not every unit is qualified to do that. It should at least have an engineer squad and even at that it should not be able to blow up each and every bridge it comes across. There is a limit to how many explosives an engineer squad can carry. Then you run into the size of bridges. One unit can conceivably blow up every bridge on the Rhine in a short time regardless of whether or not the bridges were wired beforehand. This aspect of TOAW has always played very loose.

I actually second your notion... but what might Onkel Bob or Ralph think about it? As a House Rule, that ain't an issue, but I guess in the actual game the chap is playing General Elmer blows up all bridges...To be frank though... the German AI never blew the Donets bridges in my Kharkov scenario. Perhaps it has something to do with the objectives, e.g. the Germans are supposed to fight and stand on the eastern side, and not even Elmer is so stupid to sever the LOS.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/13/2018 10:32:47 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Hey you guys....I think that the idea of having to have engineers to blow bridges has some merit.
How about allowing an engineer unit to split into three pieces which are all able to blow a
medium sized iron bridge. Those bridges that are concrete reinforced with reebar or actual spars
embedded in the concrete would probably need treatment by bombers. But wooden bridges can be
just set on fire, iron bridges would need some pre-blast prep time to wire up all the explosive
charges, which are tactically placed in specific positions in the bridge structure. At least an
hour for a team of two dozen crack engineers that have all the training and equipment they need.

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/14/2018 2:12:42 AM   
MonsterZero


Posts: 17
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the feedback everybody. I restarted the scenario and this time I'm repairing all the blown bridges I can find. My forces are doing much better with movement.

BTW, I noticed a regular infantry division has a very high success rate repairing bridges. In contract, a dedicated bridging unit has a very low success rate. I have stacks of bridging unit sitting over a broken bridge and time again failing to repair it.

What's the logic of that? Is it because a full infantry division has more men, so more men can be assigned for the bridge job?

How to use bridging units to bridge rivers? Have them straddle a river so other units can walk over them, like in Panzer General games?

< Message edited by MonsterZero -- 8/14/2018 2:19:14 AM >

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/14/2018 6:18:45 AM   
cpt flam


Posts: 2352
Joined: 1/16/2011
From: caen - France
Status: offline 		You can use your engineer units to repair the bridges, even if they fail their attempt they will help other units to cross at lesser cost
for the difference between infantry and engineer, i think that this reflect the number of engineer in the units. Must be verify

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/14/2018 2:09:38 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpt flam

You can use your engineer units to repair the bridges, even if they fail their attempt they will help other units to cross at lesser cost
for the difference between infantry and engineer, i think that this reflect the number of engineer in the units. Must be verify

The Soviet Infantry Corps, have 81 Sapper squads which have engineering capabilities. That explains the higher success rate of repairing.

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/14/2018 3:00:28 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterZero

Thanks for all the feedback everybody. I restarted the scenario and this time I'm repairing all the blown bridges I can find. My forces are doing much better with movement.

BTW, I noticed a regular infantry division has a very high success rate repairing bridges. In contract, a dedicated bridging unit has a very low success rate. I have stacks of bridging unit sitting over a broken bridge and time again failing to repair it.

What's the logic of that? Is it because a full infantry division has more men, so more men can be assigned for the bridge job?

How to use bridging units to bridge rivers? Have them straddle a river so other units can walk over them, like in Panzer General games?


I see no bridging units in Operation Bagration. Are you talking about the RR Repair units? These have no engineering abilities so will not repair bridges, only rail lines. There are no engineer units at all. Each division has 27 engineer squads authorized. I imagine the ones with engineer squads closer to what is authorized can repair bridges quite well.

BTW, take care of your HQ units. They have only one command squad. If that squad is killed you may very well end up with several divisions belonging to that formation unable to move for a bit as there are no replacements.

Also, the armies are marked as corp. The fronts are marked as armies. But some armies are marked as armies. Kind of confusing. This scenario could use a bit of editing and addition of bridging units and engineers.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 8/14/2018 3:13:26 PM >

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A: A stick.

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RE: Destroyed Bridges Slow Down My Advance! - 8/15/2018 3:41:49 AM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Greetings and thanks for the interest and feedback on DAGC.
Lobster, with regards to unit size indicators (XXXX), we now have more flexibility with TOAW4 I will clean those up. I elected to incorporate bridging and engineer units into the higher headquarters to minimize the number of icons.
I have been reviewing and fine-tuning my Road to Moscow scenarios (8) and adding those to Larry Fulkerson collection of scenarios for the next TOAW4 upgrade. I am presently working on VII Soviet Counteroffensive. VII, like DACG, requires a delicate balance of playable victory conditions. Although playable in all modes, I did playtest with Germans vs PO. DACG is the last on my list, but I will move it up.
Thanks again for the comments and suggestions.


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