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-BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944

 
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-BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/7/2018 11:43:11 PM   
KingHunter3059


Posts: 69
Joined: 12/24/2008
From: Maryland, USA
Status: offline 		Hi all, I have been working on this scenario for a month, tweaking it as such. I think I have the forces right, but I still seem to have a lag. If you good people can check it out, and let me know what I can do to improve it for submission. Thanks for your time.
=====
Update 1.01
=====
Please Playtest. I updated the German forces, and put some pep in the Tanks!
====
Update 1.02
=
Made some of the changes suggested by UP844, it's a little harder for the British
=

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by KingHunter3059 -- 11/2/2018 7:11:49 PM >

_____________________________

JT

"He who dares, wins!"
Post #: 1
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/8/2018 8:01:57 PM   
ArtReg250


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/21/2018
From: Spain
Status: offline 		A hard fought british victory in the last turn. Churchills were naturally slow, they added little to victory; on the other hand, Cromwells played a major role in victory entering in tha abbey in the best Stalingrad mode. Little to do with scout cars. The infantry took the majority of casualties, but in an acceptable number.

The Panther was of little aid, in fact, was the only survivor.

Nice scenario, hard for the brits.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ArtReg250 -- 10/8/2018 8:03:08 PM >

(in reply to KingHunter3059)
Post #: 2
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/8/2018 9:45:07 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Unfortunately I had not yet found the time to test the scenario .

May I make a couple rivet-counting remarks about the involved AFVs?

The Cromwells, as far as I know, were never used in Italy: they were only used in the Recce Regiments of the British Armoured Divisions (7th, 11th, Guards) in NW Europe, and in the Armoured Regiments of the British 7th Armoured Division.

I never found pictures of Panthers in Cassino, only Pz IVs and StuGs (the Fallschirmjager and the infantry units also fielded some Marders and captured Italian assault guns, roughly equivalent to StuG IIIB with the short 75mm).

The only Panthers ever used in Italy belonged to one battalion of the 26th Panzer Division, which fielded 44 machines at its peak strength in early 1945. They were first used against the Anzio bridgehead in early 1944, then in Tuscany in Summer 1944 and from Fall 1944 to the end on the Adriatic coast. They were not - like the Tigers of the 504th and 508th sPz Abt - very suited to the rugged terrain of the Italian peninsula.

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to ArtReg250)
Post #: 3
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/9/2018 1:01:35 AM   
KingHunter3059


Posts: 69
Joined: 12/24/2008
From: Maryland, USA
Status: offline 		Outstanding!

Thanks ArtReg250 for the input! UP844, you always keep me on point, thanks for the catches! Here is an updated scenario with your suggested changes! Thanks! I hope you get a chance to play test this one!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

JT

"He who dares, wins!"

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 4
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/14/2018 12:10:49 AM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		I just finished playing the release version of the scenario.

I first played the British.
In the North-west sector the Sherman broke or killed the German defenders in the trenches at the edge of the Abbey, then the infantry climbed the mountain unopposed; three Shermans went on a flanking move around the north end of the ruins, the others stayed with the infantry.
In the south-west sector, the Churchills managed to kill the 88mm without taking losses and then broke the Germans in the trenches. Part of the infantry, an armored car and a couple Churchills made a flanking move, the others moved up the hill (the Churchills only moved 1 hex!!).

The German reinforcements were intercepted by the two flanking forces before they entered the abbey (but killed the armored car and a Churchill with a PSK). In the meantime, the two main forces entered the abbey, where they wiped out the remains of the original defenders. A large German stack defending the southernmost objective inflicted some losses, but in the end was overwhelmed by the large number of British units.

At the end of the British turn #7 the Abbey was in British hand and only the Pz IV survived so far (it was killed by a Churchill as it moved towards the Abbey in the German turn 7; nothing happened in the last three turns.








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by UP844 -- 10/14/2018 12:12:00 AM >

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to KingHunter3059)
Post #: 5
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/14/2018 12:21:31 AM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		When I played the German side, I already knew the Allied OOB, so my first thought was to avoid being slaughtered by Shermans.

In the north-west sector, I took some fire, then retreated my units inside the Abbey; in the south, I thought the 88mm could give me some chance to hold the trenches longer.

Much to my surprise, I only saw two Churchills, which were promptly killed by the 88mm, then I didn't see any Allied AFV for the rest of the game . I sometimes heard the AFV moving, but they never showed up.

In the south, the British infantry was wiped out and never reached the level 1 hexes. Even though the deadly AI OBA killed the 88, the PzIV and most of the infantry, at the end of the game the British only had a squad and a HS in Good Order (and still in the plain below the Abbey).

On turns #9 and #10 some British squads finally appeared in the north-west, but were all wiped out by point-blank fire.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 6
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/14/2018 12:36:28 AM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Some remarks - if I may - about the German AI:

- it would be greatly helped by an AT Gun - let's say a 75mm - in the North-west sector (especially if it is not in LOS of the Sherman at the game start);
- some artillery would also be helpful (the Germans had very strong artillery assets in the Cassino sector)
- some AI-only infantry within the Abbey would also help.

As regards to the Allied AI, I have very little to say.

- The infantry behaved as expected (and since it does not fire at long range, was slaughtered by a few Germans without ever replying - the British squads NEVER fired - maybe some MMG/HMG would help).
- I will try to play again with no FOW, to understand what the AFV were doing: I suppose the AI gets confused because it cannot reach the VP hexes (we humans move the AFVs into the rubble, but the AI AFVs almost never enter a hex where they can become bogged)



_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 7
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/14/2018 2:16:49 AM   
KingHunter3059


Posts: 69
Joined: 12/24/2008
From: Maryland, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks UP844 for the suggestions. In my Initial version, I had a German 75mm ATG in the north, and it was effective. However, I wanted to show a surprised defense in the north, so I removed it. it may be worth consideration to bring it back.. I may have to assign hexes to the attacker (British), to get them moving. Thanks for the insight.

< Message edited by KingHunter3059 -- 10/14/2018 2:18:16 AM >

_____________________________

JT

"He who dares, wins!"

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 8
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/22/2018 2:48:51 PM   
Ravensworth


Posts: 11
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline 		Just downloaded this and will give it a couple of plays in the next two days. Italy is my favorite theater.


< Message edited by Ravensworth -- 10/22/2018 2:49:10 PM >

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(in reply to KingHunter3059)
Post #: 9
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/28/2018 12:37:15 AM   
KingHunter3059


Posts: 69
Joined: 12/24/2008
From: Maryland, USA
Status: offline 		*Update 1.01 Uploaded! It's on the top!

_____________________________

JT

"He who dares, wins!"

(in reply to Ravensworth)
Post #: 10
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/30/2018 5:28:05 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		I tried the updated version, but I was incredibly lucky and the British tanks killed both AT gun crews (the Churchills killed the 88 mm crew in their Advancing Fire segment, firing after moving ). This would almost certainly lead to an easy British victory, but I decided to proceed anyway.

In the German Movement Segment, the German infantry - with the exception of the MMG and Lt Mrt squads, which fired in the Fire Segment - started moving from a trench hex to another and was slaughtered by tank and infantry fire.

I have a couple ideas, but I will give it another try before reporting them.

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to KingHunter3059)
Post #: 11
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/31/2018 9:20:27 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		I made another attempt playing with the British: this time I was less lucky, and the German AT guns managed to kill some AFVs.

At the end of Turn #1 the British infantry in the south sector assumed a linear formation that would have made the Duke of Wellington happy. In the next British Defensive Fire segment, they could deliver a lot of firepower on the German trenches before the abbey (6 x 6-7 FP attacks @+1, plus 2 Lt Mtr).








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by UP844 -- 10/31/2018 9:21:44 PM >

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 12
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/31/2018 9:23:53 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Unfortunately (for them) the German defenders with no targets started moving within their trenches: in the North, they were hit hard by the Shermans, which broke most of them.








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 13
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/31/2018 9:26:35 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		In the south, the 88 mm crew remembered they were supposed to be the bane of Allied AFVs and killed two Churchills. The FJ squads not armed with MMG or Lt Mtr also started moving, and were badly beaten by the British








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 14
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 10/31/2018 9:43:04 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Now, at the end of turn #1, the biggest obstacle the British had to deal with was the rough terrain. The game ended in a British Major Victory, with a 1:4 loss ratio (not bad for assaulting the Cassino Abbey).

The German reinforcements barely entered one of the outer hexes of the Abbey: until a VP became British-controlled, they didn't even move (they had no reason to). They were wiped out to the last men on the west side of the Abbey, surrounded by British infantry and tanks which caused many losses due to failure to rout.

In my opinion, the German AI is seriously handicapped from the huge firepower the British can deliver from the very start of the scenario. The best chance for the Germans would be fighting from inside the abbey, minimising the effect of the many British tanks and taking advantage from firing first.

If I may advance some suggestion to make the scenario more challenging for the British, I would:
Add some AI-only units, setting up in the inner hexes of the Abbey; (*)
Add some infantry pickets (with LATWs) north and south of the Abbey to make surrounding the Abbey with AFVs less easier (*)
Add a OBA module to the German OOB
Give the German reinforcements a "move to hex X.Y" order
Reduce the number of British AFVs

(*) Both these forces should be assigned to set-up zones including a single type of terrain, so that the AI will randomly select their placement hexes.

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 15
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 11/2/2018 4:05:02 AM   
KingHunter3059


Posts: 69
Joined: 12/24/2008
From: Maryland, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks UP844 for the suggestions! I think it will be an interesting game with them incorporated into the scenario.
==
Update: Added some of your suggestions! Thanks!

< Message edited by KingHunter3059 -- 11/2/2018 7:12:52 PM >

_____________________________

JT

"He who dares, wins!"

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 16
RE: -BETA VERSION Testing- Monte Cassino 1944 - 11/2/2018 8:19:58 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Downloaded!

It would be nice to see the opinion of someone else who played this scenario...

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to KingHunter3059)
Post #: 17
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