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Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 4:02:52 AM

BKL

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/2/2013
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With the current sale, I am thinking about getting this game. I like complex games and currently play Command Modern Air/Naval Operations. I also have begun and enjoy WITW. I have a few questions about WITP:AE:

(1) With the game being released a few years ago, is it still reasonably playable and fun (i.e., with "old" user interface, etc.)

(2) I noticed there are an amazing 800,000+ posts on the forum. That alone makes me think this must be a great game if there are so many posts. Just wondering - are the posts more because it's so difficult to play or more because of a die-hard following and love of the game (or, what's the more dominating reason).

I welcome any feedback. Thank you.

BKL

Post #: 1

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 5:41:28 AM

WStriker

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Yes, most definately buy this game! I bought it last year for $25 when on sale. It's a long term commitment playing it, but it's worth it, and I come back to it after taking breaks to prevent burn out.

(in reply to BKL)

Post #: 2

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 7:01:52 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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It depends on what you are looking for.
If you want neat graphics of battles - this is not for you. The graphics are very basic because the game is strategic/operational level, not tactical. You will be riveted watching the information about the attack scroll by while you try and piece together how well or badly your forces are faring.

If you want frequent, massive battles, this is not for you. Most encounters are small and often inconclusive, just like the real thing. But that doesn't mean you won't be holding your breath to see how it turns out.

If you don't like preparing for months for a major operation, the game is not for you. Part of the tension-building of the game is your efforts in pulling together all the ships, planes, troops and supplies needed and then orchestrating their movement in a specific order to get through enemy defences. All those little preparation steps are enormously satisfying as you get the whole production ready for showtime.

If you like certainty, this game is not for you. You can learn a few things for certain, and have a pretty good idea about what else your opponent has in the area, but there will still be a lot you don't know until you commit to an attack or a movement. You will learn to read the various hints and glean small bits of information but never get the whole picture. So players spend years learning all the nuances to improve their game decisions but are still learning or re-learning for years more!

As WStriker noted, if you get past the initial learning cliff, you will get the most game play for your buck of any game out there. One Grand Campaign can take as long as the RL Pacific War, and then you will want to do another to put to use all that you learned the first time around.

EDIT: One more piece of advice, read a few AARs on this forum to get a flavour for the game. I recommend Canoerebel's and obverts for their frequent use of annotated maps and explanation of their plans and concerns.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 12/6/2018 7:06:15 AM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 7:34:20 AM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
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From: Clifton Park, NY
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I would, if you like complex strategic games. Esp in the Pacific during WWII.

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RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 7:43:02 AM

Kursk1943

Posts: 445
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From: Bavaria in Southern Germany
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When reading AARs, don't forget Cap Mandrake's AARs, great entertainment, a lot to learn and laugh!

(in reply to Rising-Sun)

Post #: 5

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 8:57:33 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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WITP AE is undoubtedly one of the world leaders, if not *the* leader, in the least money paid per hour of gaming time category.

This is not necessarily a good thing: the game is a huge time sink with the never-ending learning curve. In return it provides loads of fun for those who enjoy constructing and coordinating complex processes with lots of "moving parts"

(in reply to Kursk1943)

Post #: 6

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 10:43:48 AM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

The game is much better now than when it was first released. Better than it has ever been.

It has been improved and refined through years of dedicated work by people on this
forum and Michael McFarland (michaelm75au) to whom we all owe a huge debt.

Yes, complex.

Yes, a hardcore following.

Also, a love of history by many.
There are many aspects of history that can only be understood by looking at the big picture.

Be advised that like many adult pleasures this game is an acquired taste.
No instant gratification. It requires a high level of adult dedication to master the basics.

Here is what I think, my post #13:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4357982

(in reply to BKL)

Post #: 7

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 1:21:27 PM

Capt Hornblower

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From: Massachusetts, USA
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If you want to get a feel for the interface and to play less time-consuming battles and campaigns, you might also want to consider purchasing Uncommon Valor. The scale of UV is a bit smaller and the mechanics are just a bit simpler. (But if you're concerned about the age of WITP:AE, then be warned-- UV is even older.) UV, like the original WITP, WITW, and WITE, is a Gary Grigsby design.

(in reply to BKL)

Post #: 8

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 2:28:49 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
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For all of the reasons noted above.

Additionally why this game is amazing : (adding emphasis)

The Community in this game is very strong in support, knowledge base, and camaraderie in my experience.

This WITPAE is a very big tent / community:

1) Historical geek fans - such as myself - that has played the AI rather exclusively always seeking new awareness, pursuing different strategies, measuring myself verses the 'best' possible abstraction of history at a manageable level

2) PVP players that are more than just armchair generals - very innovative, thoughtful, and insightful in their ability to adapt verses another Human being with equally unorthodox stratagems

3) Modders and true "what if" thinkers that tinker with the data-set OOB presenting (1) other possible historical scenarios (2) enhanced modded OOB providing new challenges or (3) further restrictions on logistics, supply, ships i.e such as Dababes.

While I am perhaps the most basic level of player - the community is very helpful. They do not always 'hand me the answers' but often seek to help me discover things on my own.

I am constantly finding sources, references, and knowledge I never had before which makes this 'journey' even more interesting.

Not everyone in every community agrees 100% of the time

but this community is generally respectful and accommodating - allowing you to "grow into" what portion of the tent you desire to occupy.

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(in reply to Capt Hornblower)

Post #: 9

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 2:31:53 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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If you've always had a deep fascination for the Pacific Theater (or come to have such a fascination) and if you enjoy a strategy game of immeasurable complexity and variability, this game is for you. Ten years ago, I said I could see myself playing this and only this for another decade or more. The game is that rich and fulfilling, for me. Now, ten years later, I see another decade or more ahead, assuming that somehow the game can continue to be played as computer systems/OS evolve over coming years.

If you don't enjoy the Pacific Theater and if immeasurable complexity and variability aren't attractive, then you might not enjoy the game at all. If modern graphics and interface are crucial to your enjoyment of a game - if you like to sit down and play a game in an hour or a night, then this game probably isn't for you.

If it is for you, the $25 you spend will still be giving you a terrific return in five or ten years. Can you say that about any other game with any degree of optimism?

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)

Post #: 10

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 2:34:01 PM

Korvar

Posts: 813
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Addressing your points:

(1) user interface - graphic mods along with proper configuration can improve this aspect significantly. The configuration part takes a little bit of trial and error but is very doable on most modern PC hardware; I play it with in a Win10 multi-monitor environment and the game is as smooth as butter and looks completely different from the "out of box" experience: 'borderless' 1920x1080 window with a completely new map and many GUI enhancements. The only nit-pick I have is that the text can't be scaled separate from resolution, but it's not a big problem.

(2) the number of posts in the forum are due to both a love for the game and many people constantly learning. This game is like other 'timeless' games (such as chess) in that way - they're never completely mastered by humans and thus are continually satisfying to even very skilled players since there is always something new to learn. It's like drinking fine whiskey - it may knock you on your rear the 1st go-around, but there's a world of enjoyment waiting for you if you make it through the initial learning curve.

I'll also add the following - this game will give you an incredible understanding of the PTO in WW2. Your knowledge of geography alone will make people wonder if you work for an intelligence agency. WW2 histories will make much more sense because you'll already be familiar with the ships, planes, and places which are being discussed. You'll be able to hold intelligent conversations with WW2 veterans and historians.

_____________________________

WitP:AE Install & Configuration App - Get SeaBee Here
Allied Ship Insignia Art

(in reply to Capt Hornblower)

Post #: 11

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 6:45:02 PM

BKL

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/2/2013
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Thank you all for the feedback, I really appreciate it and intend to purchase the game. I really enjoy games that last over many months or even years. I play a sports simulation game and have been "managing" a team for 7 real-life years now. So long-term, detailed, and in-depth games are my area of interest.

One follow up questions - why do you think this game has so much more posts/following in the forum than the other Gary Grigsby games (WITE and WITW)? I mean, it like 800,000 posts vs. 200,000 vs. 30,000.

Thanks!

(in reply to Korvar)

Post #: 12

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 7:23:54 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Because this game is about 75 times better than any other game. Seriously. That's not saying those games aren't good. They may be (I don't know; I haven't played them). This game is far more complex, challenging and time consuming. But it's stood the test of time. Nine years in (or, if you count WitP too, 13 years), the game hasn't grown stale and the community remains engaged and vibrant. That's no accident.

(in reply to BKL)

Post #: 13

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/6/2018 9:09:54 PM

DanSez

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKL

One follow up questions - why do you think this game has so much more posts/following in the forum than the other Gary Grigsby games (WITE and WITW)? I mean, it like 800,000 posts vs. 200,000 vs. 30,000.

Thanks!

1. the AARs -- some are deep dives into game mechanics and some are 'community pep-rallies'

2. the mechanics of the game : how many units are in WiTE - Armor/Inf/Art/???
and yes they have some differences within
but how much more interesting and complex is a Sweep of fighters
(many different models, how many, what altitude?)

Followed by waves of bombers
(many different types, some escorted, some not: most with different ranges from base to target, not all arriving at the same time....)

That is replicated twice a day vs a once a week units(x) move into hex(x).

And just this function, sweeping before bombers arrive, is an art of basing faster planes and slower planes at different distances to the target.

Just think of the decisions made setting your fighter sweeps. This expands exponentially with all the other force structure decisions, destinations, speeds, layers, altitudes -- all of them are being described and debated in 'Help Me' posts and within AARS.

There is a lot to learn about the game and fortunately there is an active community willing to help you get there.

< Message edited by DanSez -- 12/6/2018 9:11:04 PM >

(in reply to BKL)

Post #: 14

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/7/2018 8:36:11 AM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
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From: Clifton Park, NY
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Well if you are not sure if you like it or not, you can always check youtube videos.

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RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/7/2018 11:06:01 AM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKL

Thank you all for the feedback, I really appreciate it and intend to purchase the game. I really enjoy games that last over many months or even years. I play a sports simulation game and have been "managing" a team for 7 real-life years now. So long-term, detailed, and in-depth games are my area of interest.

One follow up questions - why do you think this game has so much more posts/following in the forum than the other Gary Grigsby games (WITE and WITW)? I mean, it like 800,000 posts vs. 200,000 vs. 30,000.

Thanks!

For this is the only game that has the triple services at least with acceptable development: Air, Sea, Land
Grisby and the AE developer after that here could make the only game that feels whole.

In all other games it feels i am missing something, the ship or air combat are just a schematic with no detail whatsoever, that kills immersion.

(in reply to BKL)

Post #: 16

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/7/2018 11:18:24 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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For me the detail available in playing the entire war in one day turns is the hook.

I own WITE and WITW, but neither could grab my attention like WITP-AE does.

Weekly turns just can't model the air war, or even ground combat in any way as nearly realistic as one day turns can, never mind the complete inability to model naval warfare with weekly turns.

The tremendous huge data base of detailed statistics is also a huge hook for me. The data base is so rich You can get lost for hours just reviewing the current status.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 12/7/2018 11:19:03 AM >

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Hans

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Post #: 17

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/7/2018 4:11:06 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

This one.

quote:

or more because of a die-hard following and love of the game

This is a statement, not a joke. There's tons to learn, and I don't think any of us will ever get all of it.

quote:

if you get past the initial learning cliff,

Initially this was anathema to me, but...

quote:

For me the detail available in playing the entire war in one day turns is the hook.

It became this...

quote:

like preparing for months for a major operation, the game is not for you. Part of the tension-building of the game is your efforts in pulling together all the ships, planes, troops and supplies needed and then orchestrating their movement in a specific order to get through enemy defences. All those little preparation steps are enormously satisfying as you get the whole production ready for showtime.

This can't be emphasized enough...

quote:

It has been improved and refined through years of dedicated work by people on this
forum and Michael McFarland (michaelm75au) to whom we all owe a huge debt.

When you get the game here's the sequence you need to load everything. One, the game itself. Two, the latest official patch. Three, the latest beta, 1126b (IIRC).

quote:

the game is a huge time sink

Or as one player referred to it, "Its a time vampire".

Now, that doesn't mean you have to lose yourself in the game and do it all at once.

But if you're anything like most of us here take the time now to bid all your loved ones, and friends good-bye.

Oh, and that thing you called a life... Fagettaboutit.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 12/7/2018 4:14:33 PM >

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 18

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 12:25:19 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
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Are there really other games besides WITP:AE?
THE WORLD WONDERS

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Post #: 19

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 12:55:32 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
Are there really other games besides WITP:AE?
THE WORLD WONDERS

Relax, OP already bought The Game.
Mission accomplished, muahahaha!

(in reply to Yaab)

Post #: 20

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 4:04:51 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
Are there really other games besides WITP:AE?
THE WORLD WONDERS

Relax, OP already bought The Game.
Mission accomplished, muahahaha!

+1

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 12/10/2018 4:05:03 PM >

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 21

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 4:53:53 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
Are there really other games besides WITP:AE?
THE WORLD WONDERS

Relax, OP already bought The Game.
Mission accomplished, muahahaha!

Another one bites the dust.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 12/10/2018 4:54:09 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 6:36:25 PM

Zorch

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Welcome to the Dark, Dark Side.

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Post #: 23

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 6:40:33 PM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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The virus spreads...

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Post #: 24

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/10/2018 10:41:54 PM

Anachro

Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Welcome to the Dark, Dark Side.

That's only the case when you take up the mantle and play as Japan.

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Post #: 25

RE: Should I Buy This Game? - 12/11/2018 8:02:35 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Welcome to the Dark, Dark Side.

That's only the case when you take up the mantle and play as Japan.

Just playing this game is on the dark side.

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Post #: 26