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BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale

 
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BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/14/2019 7:08:33 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		I've been watching Bill and Hubert's AI's use of air units and I'm impressed. I'd like to explore recreating the Battle of Britain and potential Sea Lion on a division, squadron scale. Each airfield that held a squadron would have it's own hex and the scale would be addressed accordingly.

I need help with a SC3 map of the correct scale covering the area that a 109 could fly a combat mission using drop tanks. From my calculations the attached Google Earth screen shot would do the trick... The map making part of Modding is beyond my patient level.

Can any of you map makers assist with the project?








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< Message edited by Hairog -- 3/14/2019 10:12:53 PM >

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WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be
Post #: 1
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/21/2019 12:23:55 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		Nobody?!?! Do any of you map makers know how to make this job easier? Any tips and tricks. The manual is pretty much worthless on this subject unless I'm missing something. Has anyone done a tutorial?

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WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 2
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/21/2019 7:03:24 AM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hairog

Nobody?!?! Do any of you map makers know how to make this job easier? Any tips and tricks. The manual is pretty much worthless on this subject unless I'm missing something. Has anyone done a tutorial?


Hi Harry

I can make an extract of my Napoleonic war map (scale is 20km/hexes)
You will have to add some railroads and do some fine tuning to adapt to your campaign.

In case you want a different scale then you can try "Map Scanner", this is a small utility program (I believe its available on WIE beta forum.
Its not perfect as you will have to clean up coastlines, but its a good starting point for a campaign edit.


(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 3
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/21/2019 5:53:13 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		Thank you Sipres! I would like to try your extract first and then is that doesn't do the job I'll try the Map Scanner route.

Thanks again and I'm looking forward to receiving your file.

Harry

BTW I tried to download the 20 mile/hex map in SC3 Europe and the link appears to be broken.

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 4
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/25/2019 6:40:59 AM   
SIPRES


Posts: 398
Joined: 7/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hairog

Thank you Sipres! I would like to try your extract first and then is that doesn't do the job I'll try the Map Scanner route.

Thanks again and I'm looking forward to receiving your file.

Harry

BTW I tried to download the 20 mile/hex map in SC3 Europe and the link appears to be broken.


Hi Harry, I did update the link so you can crop the desired area for your campaign

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 5
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/25/2019 8:21:49 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		Hey Sipres, the download only has a cgn file. Is that all we need?


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WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 6
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/27/2019 3:49:06 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		Sheesh... Took me two days to figure out how to cut your map down to the correct size Sipres. Looks good, now to work on the airfields etc.

Thank you.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 7
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/31/2019 12:59:56 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		First look using Sipres 20km map cut to size but otherwise no changes. Thanks Sipres!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hairog -- 4/1/2019 1:11:05 PM >

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 8
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/31/2019 1:08:18 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		For the RAF the numbers represent actual combat ready planes availble according to a number of sources. I have no such information on the Lufwaffle side. In fact I'm finding a dearth of information of the German's OOB and locations etc..

If someone has a source that is free and fast please let me know.

Now for the Luffwaffle






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hairog -- 4/1/2019 1:11:26 PM >

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 9
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/31/2019 5:13:48 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		http://niehorster.org/500_eto/40-09_sealion.html

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Post #: 10
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/31/2019 9:43:26 AM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline 		Fascinating, certainly a great subject.

If you are not familiar check this forum, most of the time you'll find the knowledgeable people helpful.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/

Have collected quite an extensive library on the subject - although I haven't been studying / buying any new material for approx. a decade now.
But I'm always willing to give a Luftwaffe question a shot.

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Post #: 11
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 3/31/2019 9:49:06 AM   
Simulacra53


Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline 		On a critical note, the map scale is going to make this a very cramped affair, especially if you add the actual air, ground and sea units.

Meant constructively - I think you need 2x the scale, at least.
Also depends on your turn time.

Any way, daring to take this project on.

(in reply to Simulacra53)
Post #: 12
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 4/1/2019 3:55:18 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		This mod is for SC3 Europe.


Link to SC3 Europe thread.

Sorry about that.

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Simulacra53)
Post #: 13
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 4/1/2019 1:10:49 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

On a critical note, the map scale is going to make this a very cramped affair, especially if you add the actual air, ground and sea units.

Meant constructively - I think you need 2x the scale, at least.
Also depends on your turn time.

Any way, daring to take this project on.



Good link Simulacra53. I forgot about the Luftwaffe forum.

Yes you are right it will be very crowded which is why I'm just doing BOB air units for now and will have to figure out the land and sea portion later. Even at this scale you have to scroll in order to cover the range of the planes.

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 14
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/2/2019 10:56:07 AM   
steevodeevo

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline 		How are you getting on Hairog? Really intrigued by this mod, map and scale, as well as the specific campaign of course.

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Post #: 15
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/3/2019 12:05:06 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		The new upgrade has thrown my modding in tizzy. I can't get them to load or when they do, use the right graphics. I'm kind of waiting for a solution. All my work so far has kind of been wasted if I can't get things on track.

Some interesting developments cropped up in the BOB mod. The whole game changes if you give the Luftwafe drop tanks and extend the range of the 109. The RAF would have been in deep trouble.

Another conumdrum is accurate intelligence. In the game the Germans get some pretty accurate reports on damage done but in real life they were totally baffeled by the British and had virtually no idea of the results of the day's raids. I have not discovered a good way of modeling this yet.

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 16
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/4/2019 7:46:30 PM   
ReinerAllen

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 3/2/2014
Status: offline 		This looks very interesting. So, I guess you next attempt at modding will to mod the Battle of the Bulge. I'm surprised someone hasn't done it already. Anyway, I look forward to you completing this mod.

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 17
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/4/2019 9:06:02 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 5199
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Hi Harry,

If I can ask, what issues are you having exactly? Did you take a pre v1.16 mod and convert it using the v1.15 -> v1.16 converter tool? Did the conversion notes in the folder help?

What is the structure of your modded graphics in the subfolder, i.e. which ones are you modding and so on and how are they placed in the custom campaign subfolder?

This will give me a good idea on what to suggest if I see something amiss.

Hubert

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Post #: 18
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/4/2019 11:47:45 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		Hey Hubert, My copies of BOB won't conververt or even open in the converter. It's possible that the last save was in a version before 1.5 but I don't think so.

I've tried to install and older version so I can try and run it and upgrade etc. but I only saved the Beta copies and not the original game downloads I was given for being a tester. So I'm kind of stymied.

I run across a big one just before the upgrade. I've played out the mod a couple of times with both sides reaching zero morale but neither side declares victory or defeat. I was under the impression that when a country reached 0 morale it surrendered. Am I wrong? Is there a check box etc. I'm missing.

< Message edited by Hairog -- 6/4/2019 11:50:55 PM >

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Hubert Cater)
Post #: 19
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/5/2019 3:08:49 AM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		Breakthrough! I found another file on a thumb-drive I forgot about. It converted, came up in the editor, but not in the game. Finally figured out it was because the scripts needed updating. It now works, so I'm back at it.

I still need an answer regarding the morale. It's the key to making this mod work. It's the only way I can see to have one side or the other win.

_____________________________

WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

(in reply to Hairog)
Post #: 20
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/5/2019 9:55:31 AM   
BiteNibbleChomp


Posts: 105
Joined: 9/12/2016
Status: offline 		Hi Hairog,

Re Morale, In SC2* there is an entry in the victory conditions scripts with this format (below all the trigger, alignment, date, map position stuff) :

; #NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= Under what national morale situation will this event occur
; Format: country_id [national_morale_percentage] [above_or_below] (above_or_below values range [0, 1]; Above=1; Below=0)

If you wanted to have a victory condition where say UK (Nation ID =1) had <10% morale, you would enter that as:
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 1 [10] [0]
(where the 1 represents UK, 0 represents "below 10%")

Just by looking through the files in WWI and my experience with the Civil War mod, it appears most NM-based surrenders are tied to a dummy decision event (basically a forced AI "yes" given under a certain condition), and activated by a Surrender 2 event with the "dummy=yes" condition. If you wanted to force a full surrender I could explain this further but it probably isn't necessary in your mod's case - all that would happen is the map would change colour and then the victory screen (and for battle of Britain, it isn't like the UK is being invaded anyway!).

*Note I haven't spent much time with SC3's editor (prefer the old game personally), so something might have changed in the new release. Unfortunately my time spent in SC2's editor won't be much help in that case.

Good luck!

- BNC

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Post #: 21
RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 6/6/2019 3:56:01 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		BNC is right, that is the way to create victory conditions triggered by National Morale falling below a certain point.

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RE: BOB / Sea Lion on a Division/squadron scale - 9/2/2019 11:59:47 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline 		I did it by the way. The Beta is on the SC3 War in Europe Mods HERE. Using the moral works quite well. HERE

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WW III 1946 Books
SC3 EAW WW Three 1946 Mod and Naval Mods
WarPlan and WarPlan Pac Alpha and Be

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Post #: 23
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