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Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-)

 
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Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/9/2019 8:17:37 PM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		Hi folks,

the above mentioned gentleman and I started our game some month ago and currently we are in turn 90. I wanted to wait with this AAR until its clear that we will fight this to the bitter end. And he is a very reliable and skilled opponent. If you have the chance to play against him, accept immediately and get your anti depressants ready.:)

I started to save screenshots from turn 89 on and will start this AAR when we are in turn 94 so it will be 5 turns behind.

Of course my worthy adversary is allowed to post his thoughts here and report you in his function as first-hand victim which new disasters he had to endure on the hand of the mighty axis.

< Message edited by Bear1888 -- 6/9/2019 8:19:35 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/9/2019 8:29:07 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		+1 subscribed

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 2
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/9/2019 8:57:27 PM   
Bitburger

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 2/21/2015
Status: offline 		I too have an ongoing game with an Axis Piotrmx, turn 49 now. I second your recommendation. Put me down as subscribed

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 3
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 7:45:41 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bear1888
the above mentioned gentleman and I started our game some month ago and currently we are in turn 90.


These "blitz" games where you do three turns pr day really intrigue me.

I think that all traditional balancing knowledge by the community will be severely offset, but I really have little idea of the game implications.

My guess is that the Axis side will have a serious disadvantage early on, as it will be VERY hard to optimize the attacks in the 30 minutes or so time allowed for each turn.

It will be interesting to watch.


_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 4
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 8:49:44 AM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		I can only speak for my part but my turns clearly take at least 2 or more hours to get done. Except for some mud turns.

I try to reduce the TOE to have a huge manpower pool. I also try to keep a good command structure without overloading headquarters and keep them in range to their units.

Further i manually assign and remove pioneer, rocket launcher, SPG and other units which are vital for a successful offensive.

I try to keep my fighter units equipped with the best material which produced some spectacular results.

Let me just say that I fell in love with the ME-109/G2 fighter.

There is one area where I failed in the first year: basicly marching with high moral infantry units and attacking with low moral units. Therefore my infantry moral is not as high as it could be.

I regard myself as a average player and any hints how I could do things better are greatly appreciated.

Will post turn 89 as soon as I get my turn 93 back. I think 4 turn time difference are enough.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 5
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 9:12:45 AM   
piotrmx

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 2/19/2017
Status: offline 		Yes I really hate your fighters. The war is now bloody. Soviets have nearly 8 M and germany has 4,4M army. I hope you saved maps with counterattack like Mainstein. It was the first time i was abble to stop panzerballs. Over 20 panzer & mot divs couldn't manage with my cav and inf corps. Guardian corps with the best leaders and the best equipment which Matushka Rosija gave are powerfull.

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 6
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 9:28:02 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir
These "blitz" games where you do three turns pr day really intrigue me


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bear1888
I can only speak for my part but my turns clearly take at least 2 or more hours to get done.


I find this interesting because I have experience of both types.

When I first started the game I could easily do a turn in a couple of hours. Yes I was a noob and had only read not studied the manual. But it would be a disservice to call it a lesser game. I was an experienced wargamer before hand and it was a thrilling game just as strategically interesting as any I have played since.

If I was to do a turn 1 of the game now, even though scripted and pre-studied, it would take me the best part of a week now. But even normal turns take me longer. To give one example before each and every combat (ground and air) I have to first do a pre-flight checklist of airbases to see that airgroups can still fly from them (e.g. they did not just run out of ammo). Anyone who has seen several hundred bombers fly without any fighters will know why - the game provides no warning that fighters will not fly, you will only find out after the disaster. So I now have a pre-flight checklist of things to check before clicking to make sure - and this can take up to half an hour each time. Study all the other details of the manual and incorporate how to optimise them into your game-play and you can see how time to take a turn mushrooms.

I had the pleasure of playing with Stelteck in the 8MP team game and he took a ruthless approach to cutting out micromanagement. He would only do the 20% of things that would get 80% of results. No kabuki dancing of airbases or manually setting upgrade and replacement settings for airgroups etc.Famously one of his turns took him under a minute to do! And he did very well. Crackaces here has suggested the opposite that the one who does more micromanagement inevitably has an advantage that only a much better player can overcome.

So long as you are enjoying the game and it is of interest both are valid. But if spending more time micromanaging a side does give you an advantage and you do not want to do that then you might have to fix some house rules, or agree a general approach, to avoid it being a competition of who can endure a longer time of boring click fests.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/10/2019 9:29:51 AM >

(in reply to piotrmx)
Post #: 7
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 10:11:22 AM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		Ok. One turn under a minute is a case for guiness book of the records.

I do micromanagement but not about everything.

I do turn air support off for attacks with overwhelming superiority to save miles and ammunition.

I set the TOE for all artillery and air defence units to 70% except the SU needed for a offensive.Etc....

But going through a long check list before each attack? I don't have the patience for that.

If a attack is important, I just use the best commander, enough vital SU and ground attack aircrafts.

@piotrmx:

You surprised me indeed. And I guess the blitzkrieg is officially over now after even 2 panzerarmies were not able to keep the pocket closed.


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 8
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 11:03:37 AM   
piotrmx

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 2/19/2017
Status: offline 		I'm not very good in airplanes micromanagement. As Rusians weren't :-). I prefer russian steam roller tactic. Guard Inf Corp with CV more than 60 and 7000 guns which fire on 1 hex will brake Nazi neck.

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 9
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 12:40:33 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline
quote:


@telemecus:

and you can see how time to take a turn mushrooms



Yeah, the more I understand this game, the longer my turns are!

2 hours is what it takes me to just check things out and close when everything's done. And even so I always forget something! lol!

Interesting comments though. My own perception is that micromanagement (and even plain and simple management) gives subtle returns and so is not so important over a few turns, but will give many small dividends which will add up in the long run. Nevertheless, I do understand that fast pace need in some people... just to see things unfold.

But it's not the way I enjoy this game, to me each turn is a separate entity that has its mysteries which I like to uncover slowly. Exactly like a woman! or a jigsaw puzzle... lol!

< Message edited by joelmar -- 6/10/2019 12:41:14 PM >

_____________________________

"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio

(in reply to piotrmx)
Post #: 10
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 1:45:38 PM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:


@telemecus:

and you can see how time to take a turn mushrooms



Yeah, the more I understand this game, the longer my turns are!

2 hours is what it takes me to just check things out and close when everything's done. And even so I always forget something! lol!

Interesting comments though. My own perception is that micromanagement (and even plain and simple management) gives subtle returns and so is not so important over a few turns, but will give many small dividends which will add up in the long run. Nevertheless, I do understand that fast pace need in some people... just to see things unfold.

But it's not the way I enjoy this game, to me each turn is a separate entity that has its mysteries which I like to uncover slowly. Exactly like a woman! or a jigsaw puzzle... lol!


2 hours to just overview the situation? Jesus.:)

What are you doing? Checking each soldiers BMI and deciding how many calories he need for each week?:)

(in reply to joelmar)
Post #: 11
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 1:48:21 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline
quote:


ORIGINAL: Bear1888

What are you doing? Checking each soldiers BMI and deciding how many calories he need for each week?:



Basically, yeah, more or less...

_____________________________

"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 12
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 1:51:23 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bear1888


quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:


@telemecus:

and you can see how time to take a turn mushrooms



Yeah, the more I understand this game, the longer my turns are!

2 hours is what it takes me to just check things out and close when everything's done. And even so I always forget something! lol!

Interesting comments though. My own perception is that micromanagement (and even plain and simple management) gives subtle returns and so is not so important over a few turns, but will give many small dividends which will add up in the long run. Nevertheless, I do understand that fast pace need in some people... just to see things unfold.

But it's not the way I enjoy this game, to me each turn is a separate entity that has its mysteries which I like to uncover slowly. Exactly like a woman! or a jigsaw puzzle... lol!


2 hours to just overview the situation? Jesus.:)

What are you doing? Checking each soldiers BMI and deciding how many calories he need for each week?:)



See https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x3P8pzHLda95a9K5uWIXnyIedT2Q8KSo/view from library of WitE resources - Phase A to I is what you need to do before even the first combat!

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 13
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 1:57:51 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline
quote:


@Telemecus

Phase A to I is what you need to do before even the first combat!



lol.. I'm not there yet, but it seems its slowly coming!

< Message edited by joelmar -- 6/10/2019 1:58:08 PM >

_____________________________

"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 14
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 2:02:42 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		During the first 13 turns of 2x3 I was watching combats at message level 7. That took some time

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to joelmar)
Post #: 15
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 2:04:46 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

During the first 13 turns of 2x3 I was watching combats at message level 7. That took some time


And a strong bladder!

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 16
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 2:07:02 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: piotrmx

I'm not very good in airplanes micromanagement. As Rusians weren't :-). I prefer russian steam roller tactic. Guard Inf Corp with CV more than 60 and 7000 guns which fire on 1 hex will brake Nazi neck.


But what happens when the reserve armor (you did not account for) counterattacks See 8MP turns 55 .. 65..


_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to piotrmx)
Post #: 17
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 2:11:46 PM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		Level 7 sounds pretty hardcore. I guess you even get a message when one of your soldiers misses with his bayonet. 😂

@Telemecus:

thanks for the link. Will read it for sure.


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 18
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 2:18:27 PM   
joelmar


Posts: 1023
Joined: 3/16/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bear1888

Level 7 sounds pretty hardcore. I guess you even get a message when one of your soldiers misses with his bayonet. 😂






_____________________________

"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 19
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 3:21:02 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bear1888

Level 7 sounds pretty hardcore. I guess you even get a message when one of your soldiers misses with his bayonet. 😂







Each individual shot per device including air platforms is accounted for.. one of the things I learned was just how effective 20mm flak gins were vs attacking squads ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to joelmar)
Post #: 20
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 3:46:28 PM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		https://youtu.be/DHQxtgPp7fM

German 20mm in action. This thing is murder. In our game it takes a heavy toll on Il-2 squadrons.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 21
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/10/2019 4:15:02 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bear1888

https://youtu.be/DHQxtgPp7fM

German 20mm in action. This thing is murder. In our game it takes a heavy toll on Il-2 squadrons.

It will do a great job on Guards Cavalry too ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 22
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/11/2019 7:48:49 AM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		OK guys, here we go.

I will first produce several pictures to show you the overall situation at the starting date (1943/2/25) and then go to the hotpots where the main action is. in case I get a remarkable result, I will post the specific battle report and at the end I will post the casualties and the OOB. So have fun.

AGN:

Basically the standard move. Captured Leningrad, activated the finish army and manned the west river bank of the river Wolchow:



AGC:

Here is where Piotrmx decided to attack. You see a lot of guards corps full stacks. I moved 1 SS tank corps and 1 regular tank corps here to help with the defense. Also, the corps HQ's are packed with artillery, AA and each INF corps has at least 1 SPG unit:



A close look at the Moscow area:



The biggest Battle around Moscow. I wonder how long it will take for his La-5 units to wipe out my fighter force.:)



AGS:

Now that's another hot spot. After capturing 350k red army soldiers near Tula in early summer, I decided to relocate the Schwerpunkt to Rostov, cross the Don and attack the Caucasus. I was not able to capture Baku because it was too late and because my opponent brought in powerful corps size units and blocked my attack.

But I guess it was not a complete failure because I got some industry, damaged his oil production and captured some manpower centers.

So in the winter I began to retreat my mountain, infantry and tank units from there while 1.5 tank army covered the left flank near Stalingrad.





So now you got an overview over the strategic situation.

Here are the loses. I think as long as I keep them at 3:1 in my favor, i still have a chance.



The Air lose screen. The Luftwaffe fighter units are still superior and I tend to have all LW AA units in corps HQ's while the SPG AA units are assigned to Tank corps HQ's.



The OOB. The red army is pretty strong for 1943 but I guess my 7200 tanks are also not too bad.



My best unit:
















< Message edited by Bear1888 -- 6/11/2019 9:05:30 AM >

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 23
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/12/2019 11:59:52 AM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		Forgot to say that we are playing random weather which I find very interesting and not static like non-random weather. It was a good suggestion from Piotrmx.

Turn 90:

AGN:

Nothing new here. Recon detected no offensive build-ups on the other side, so the units stay where they are and get no reinforcement.

AGC:

No major action here except 2 soviet attacks. One hold and one retreat. Gave up a level 1 FORT hex to avoid a strong attack by 9 soviet corps. The Tank Divisions stay in reserve mode. Soviet Air power supporting the attacks got mauled by axis fighter units flying CAP.



AGS:

I saw an opening here to attack at the 34=20 hex. The objective was to break through and encircle at least 4 soviet Tank Corps with the aim to destroy enemy trucks and some good quality units. At the end of the turn, 22 PD/MD were involved. Also, most of my ground attack AC are in the region.


Here the situation before and after the attacks.





The pocket walls are mostly 3 stack PD in the hope that they will hold. it would be a major victory at the near end of the German offensive.

Loses:



Air Loses after some large engagements around Moscow and in the south:



Plenty of Manpower to replace the loses which will doubtfully happen when the Soviet meat grinder starts to work in summer 43.:)




< Message edited by Bear1888 -- 6/12/2019 12:05:25 PM >

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 24
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/12/2019 12:23:05 PM   
piotrmx

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 2/19/2017
Status: offline 		I hope most of reserved manpower are Hungarian, Romanian, Italiano, Crotian, Espaniol and from the rest countries of Free Europe :-)))))). Some new pretty syberian gulags are waitong for them :-).

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 25
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/13/2019 10:37:54 PM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		Turn 91:

AGN: Same old. Nothing newsworthy here. Finnish Air Force recon shows no reinforcements in this sector.

AGC: No attacks around Moscow. Although, the heavy concentration of enemy corps size units is still in the area.



AGS:

The enemy was able top open the pocket! I guess the fact that he can move 3 stack German Panzer Divisions indicates that the Axis has reached its high mark a few turns ago. This should mean the end of large scale offensive operations.

It would be wise to not sacrifice the high moral Panzertruppen in Kursk like fruitless offensive battles against rifle corps. The better option will be to do what Guderian wanted to do in 43:

Waiting for the soviet offensive and to attack the tired soviet spearhead units with well rested and fully equipped German divisions.

The situation after the soviet counterattacks:



And after my movement phase:



The loses are still in my favor. Although the soviets were able to save their corps, the battles took a heavy toll on their forces. 340 soviet tanks were shot down by expert German gunnery.



Air loses were high for the Red Air Force. The Axis fighter units once again granted the ground attack AC's total air supremacy in the region. 78 Il2 were shot down:



A typical air battle around Stalingrad:






(in reply to piotrmx)
Post #: 26
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/15/2019 9:43:08 AM   
Bear1888

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 4/4/2019
Status: offline 		Turn 92:

AGN:

No major enemy troop movement.

AGC:

One major attack in the Moscow area. My troops had to retreat and were overwhelmed by 220k enemy soldiers and 5k artillery pieces.
At least the enemy lost 3500 men and 54 fighters were shot down by the Luftwaffe:



AGS:

South of Stalingrad, we saw another major soviet attack and another retreat.270k troops and 5.4k guns were involves.axis fighter units shot down 31 soviet fighters. The Hungarian fighter units are now equipped with the export version of the ME-109.



The situation in the lower Don region:



The loses:



Air loses:



A new German fighter plane ended the testing phase and is rolling out of the factories now:










(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 27
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/23/2019 2:24:18 PM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Will be following this AAR with interest.

One advice I would give you is to not waste your Panzerwaffe on mobile operations in the blizzard since that takes a huge toll on available AFVs and trucks. AFV and truck repair rates are much lower during the blizzard, truck repair is capped at 10k trucks a turn instead of the 25k during summer and the percentage of damaged AFVs returned to transfer pools drops to 20% in blizzard as opposed to 40% during clear weather.

Cheers!

_____________________________

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator

(in reply to Bear1888)
Post #: 28
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/23/2019 10:42:10 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Will be following. Your Air force seems to rule the sky with excellent loss ratios? The Wehrmacht looks well-prepared numbers wise for the coming grind.

_____________________________

The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 29
RE: Me (AXIS) vs. Piotrmx (LOSING FRACTION):-) - 6/24/2019 9:58:07 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Will be following this AAR with interest.

One advice I would give you is to not waste your Panzerwaffe on mobile operations in the blizzard since that takes a huge toll on available AFVs and trucks. AFV and truck repair rates are much lower during the blizzard, truck repair is capped at 10k trucks a turn instead of the 25k during summer and the percentage of damaged AFVs returned to transfer pools drops to 20% in blizzard as opposed to 40% during clear weather.

Cheers!


I think this is a good general rule of thumb, and I have some regrets bringing out the Panzers in a blizzard, but look at the 8MP game for a successful blizzard offense. Your framing of the costs are quite correct, but one thought is the Benefits. In this case routing cavalry units so they would not harass the Germans. This particular offense had lots of parameters including the Soviet total manpower to guide objectives. But .. there might be circumstances where the price of admission might be worth bringing out the Lions in Winter.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 30
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