RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J)

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/24/2019 6:55:16 PM

rustysi

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quote:

A bit early to pull them out I think.

quote:

Mizuho

Yes.

quote:

Tenryu

Not losing much here.

Edit: Kinda moot point now, as both will need repairs.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 3/24/2019 7:00:12 PM >

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/24/2019 7:21:16 PM

RangerJoe

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If the Tenryu is one of those cruisers that can lay minefields, a good job for her is to lay some mines at nice fuel stops and then patrol the area.

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Post #: 212

RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/24/2019 8:43:47 PM

rustysi

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quote:

If the Tenryu is one of those cruisers that can lay minefields,

AFAIK, no.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 2:21:22 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If the Tenryu is one of those cruisers that can lay minefields, a good job for her is to lay some mines at nice fuel stops and then patrol the area.

Yes, this is a reason not to convert Tenryu and Tatsuta. They can lay large(r) Type 93 minefields.

I don't convert mine. They are rather pitiful as CLAAs.

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Post #: 214

RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 3:27:01 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If the Tenryu is one of those cruisers that can lay minefields, a good job for her is to lay some mines at nice fuel stops and then patrol the area.

Yes, this is a reason not to convert Tenryu and Tatsuta. They can lay large(r) Type 93 minefields.

I don't convert mine. They are rather pitiful as CLAAs.

+1

On the surface, getting 2 CLAA's seems great for IJ, but as Loka notes, they are actually quite anemic. All of the CA's are better.

Then there is the Type 93 mine layers, IJN has so few of those. So converting two of a short list of ships, well I don't convert them any more. They are more useful as mine layers and escorts than as CLAA's for me.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 3/26/2019 3:29:05 AM >

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 5:54:03 AM

jdsrae

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Just went back to my notes on IJN mine laying capability, excluding starting pools which can all be laid in the first few months:
T-88 are sub laid and with a build rate of 35/month that�s about 2 x sub missions per month as they carry 20 each. The sailors on the 4 dedicated sub minelayers should see plenty of shore leave unless/until they get themselves sunk!
T-93 are CM laid with a build rate of 110/month. Even if you convert all the CM that can to E, the 5xCM that can�t convert carry 525 mines between them. Unless / until they start getting sunk they should be able to keep that pool drained.
T-4 are CMc laid, build rate 45/ month. 11x starting CMc carry 35 each so they can only be used 1-2 times a year in anger.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 6:24:17 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
T-4 are CMc laid, build rate 45/ month. 11x starting CMc carry 35 each so they can only be used 1-2 times a year in anger.

There is one funny thing with To'su CMc-s. They can be converted from xAKL/PB and come with 20 Type-4 on board for free. Those mines do not come from any pools. Then the empty CMcs can be converted back and forth to replenish the mines. 21x2 days per cycle.
Though, given the number of To'su-s in the roster this is gamey indeed

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 4:20:29 PM

Lokasenna

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I mean, they're also just Type 4 mines, which are pitiful. And that's a lot of clicks. I wouldn't bother.

The only mines I ever run out of are Type 88. Yes, the CMs carry Type 93's, but you aren't always going to be able to use those ships to lay the mines. Having the Tenryus around to do some minelaying is also useful. They're much faster, for one thing.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 6:19:47 PM

PaxMondo

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And maybe I am the only one, BUT I do lose CM's and those '93's are the best mine that IJ gets. Also, I don't like to waste fuel, so I tend to assign CM's to an area. Fewer CM's means each has to cover a bigger area, more fuel used.

Just me though � I watch fuel usage �

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 7:57:30 PM

jdsrae

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Good points Loka / Pax. The CMs are an interesting and versatile group of ships as they come in a variety of sizes and capabilities.
Some are larger old CLs and burn fuel accordingly, others are quite small.
Some have decent troop carrying capacity so are useful as fast transports or escorts of.
All except 5 can convert to E. Some already have ASW capability. This is the main choice, how many to convert to E, if any, as some can�t convert until 43 anyway.

Allocating the CM forward to Area Fleet locations allows you to use them as a multi-role utility. Also, they lay mines for two different purposes:
1. more defensive minefields, especially in oil producing hexes supported by ACM once the area is secure
2. offensive minefields in contested waters. In this role I expect the CMs to have a much shorter life span

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 8:50:57 PM

rustysi

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quote:

On the surface, getting 2 CLAA's seems great for IJ, but as Loka notes, they are actually quite anemic. All of the CA's are better.

They have the same number of 'heavy' AAA as a regular CA (all that counts when defending other ships in the TF), and CA are like hens teeth for Japan. They just don't have enough CA's and none are built during the game.

quote:

Even if you convert all the CM that can to E,

Those CM's that convert to E's will still load/carry/deploy the type 93 mine. I use two often as they carry 50/60 mines respectively. Those are about the largest minefields I lay. Prefer multiple fields in a hex as the only ones that are effective are those that are unknown.

quote:

Though, given the number of To'su-s in the roster this is gamey indeed

Not so. For whatever reason this was incorporated intentionally, and as said they are the least effective Japanese mines.

quote:

Having the Tenryus around to do some minelaying is also useful. They're much faster

Definitely a factor, depending on your style of play.

quote:

offensive minefields in contested waters.

Problem with 'offensive' minefields is that in deep water they decay very quickly, and I've had 'no joy' employing them. OTOH I for one, and would imagine my opponent in a PBEM as well, avoid shallow water hexes in many instances. Only time I don't is when I've no other choice or I know/suspect heavy sub infestation.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/26/2019 8:54:28 PM

rustysi

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quote:

T-88 are sub laid and with a build rate of 35/month that�s about 2 x sub missions per month as they carry 20 each.

Each of these subs will load/deploy 40 mines per trip.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/27/2019 12:10:34 AM

jdsrae

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My thoughts on offensive minefields, are to focus on key enemy ports with sub laid mines, consider fast CM laid but risky.
Other main areas are shallow waters in �straights� either as defined by the manual or not.
Mines get a different bonus in defined narrow straight hexsides and defined wide straight hexes.
Narrow straight hexsides with mines plus CD guns is the ideal for defence. Not many of these exist outside of Japan, Soerabaja has a couple from memory.
Wide straight hexes either end of Java and around Bali also deserve special attention.
Mines in shallow water non base hexes don�t fade as rapidly as deep water. Mines laid in the Malacca Strait shallow water hexes might work if laid on a just-in-time basis.
Minewarfare isn�t an aspect of the game I�ve used well in past games, including allied air delivered mines which historically they did a lot of. I think they can start dropping from 1944. A way off yet for Mike, but the Japan player can use AMc to counter allied air dropped mines.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/27/2019 4:24:55 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

T-88 are sub laid and with a build rate of 35/month that�s about 2 x sub missions per month as they carry 20 each.

Each of these subs will load/deploy 40 mines per trip.

Depends on the sub.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 3/27/2019 5:26:26 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

T-88 are sub laid and with a build rate of 35/month that�s about 2 x sub missions per month as they carry 20 each.

Each of these subs will load/deploy 40 mines per trip.

Depends on the sub.

Not when it comes to the four mine laying subs that Japan has. Other subs will deploy these mines at a rate of 2x the number of tubes they posses. I rarely use them though, as long as I have the mine laying subs.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 4/16/2019 5:52:26 PM

DanSez

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a page two saving bump from your concerned neighbors...

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 4/17/2019 3:02:51 AM

PaxMondo

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I think those are the "L" class subs � I may be wrong. I always mark their TF with a special name so that I don't lose track of them.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 4/18/2019 7:03:34 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

a page two saving bump from your concerned neighbors...

All's well, Mike's just busy. He gets that way from time to time.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 4/19/2019 2:21:37 AM

jdsrae

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In game I-121,122,123,124 are Type KRS class
They show 2x Type 88 Mine dispensers with 20 ammo each, so that must be where rusty got the 40 mines per boat from
Double what I had thought but not a game changer. Those 4 subs will spend even more time in port than I thought waiting for mines to be produced for them to lay

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 4/20/2019 7:05:59 PM

rustysi

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quote:

They show 2x Type 88 Mine dispensers with 20 ammo each, so that must be where rusty got the 40 mines per boat from

Yup. That and experience.

quote:

Double what I had thought but not a game changer.

Nope. Just wanted to be accurate.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/21/2019 7:32:30 PM

Mike Solli

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Ok, time to start catching up with this AAR...

12 Dec 41

Sub War

Pretty one sided today, and not in my favor.

The Porpoise sank an unescorted xAK south of Takao. This is becoming a lucrative hunting ground for Mike. I'm moving some ASW assets there now, but we all know how wonderful Japanese ASW is at the beginning of the war.

Just north of Mersing, the KXV sank the W-5. Cat eaten by the mouse! Later in the day she'll sink an xAK in the same area. My invasion fleet is finishing up their offloading at Mersing and moving out. That's what the Dutch sub is finding.

The I-9 was hit by a destroyer depth charge off Hawaii. I'm considering dismantling most of the ring around Hawaii. It was a new tactic that didn't really pan out. Several of my subs were damaged but I did manage to sink a destroyer. Most of my subs are heading off to new frontiers soon. I decided to stick around a little bit longer though.

I guess it wasn't all bad (I'm reading my notes from a month or more ago). The I-162 caught and sank TK Mindinao and I-157 sank AO Trinity, both near Balikpapan.

5 Fleet

Nothing going on here.

4 Fleet

KB is hanging around Wake Island to give support to the troops there. Some Vals did catch and sink the AM Penguin. She almost made it!

The troops landed at Wake, pretty disrupted, and the shock attack only netted 1:1 odds but did reduce the forts to level 1.

Ocean Island was liberated.

SE Fleet

Kavieng was liberated. It'll be a naval search/recon base for as I advance south.

I landed at Shortlands Island. Due to the 2 day turns, I won't be able to attack it until 14 Dec.

SRA

Another wave of Allied merchant ships attempted to flee farther south. Overall, my surface ships and planes sank 2 TK (making 4 for the day!), 4 xAK and an xAKL. Most of the cargo ships were carrying troops/equipment.

There were landings at Jolo and Kuantan (for their airfields).

A few more Buffalos were shot down over Singapore and 9 more various Allied fighters were shot down over Manila.

I had a tank regiment and the cav from 5 Division at Johore Bahru try a shock attack. Only 1:2 odds, but they really didn't lose anything and did kill off about half a dozen enemy squads. I'm trying to cut the line to Singapore to prevent any of the remaining units (and more importantly, additional supply) from getting to Singapore. The rest of the army is crawling to Jahore Bahru and another tank unit is trying to head due west to cut the line from that unoccupied hex.

Sorry for being vague, but old notes just don't hack it.

Burma

Still heading north.

China

The Chinese bombers went after Taihoku's destroyed oil fields again, but my Zeros were waiting. The 9 Zeros decimated them, shooting down 7 of 9 Hudsons and 2 of 3 DB3Ms.

Maneuvering all over the map here.

Other Stuff

Nothing I can decipher from my notes.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/21/2019 8:23:05 PM

Mike Solli

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13 Dec 41

Sub War

The I-5, part of the ring around Hawaii, sank the DD Dewey. Glad I decided to stay. That's 2 DDs sunk here.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

More troops landed causing another shock attack. 1:2 odds this time, with the forts remaining at 1. Not a lot of losses, but a lot of disabled troops and disruption. This is going to take longer than anticipated.

SE Fleet

The two AMCs that start in the far South Pacific visited Suva today. I had set them to visit a series of islands on their way back to Kwajalein. They struck pay dirt at Suva running across the AGP Niagara, xAP Chaumont and xAP Republic. The transports had troops! They ended up heavily damaging the first two ships and sinking the Republic. Each took a couple of 3" shells which did little damage, but they had to cut short their tour due to a shortage of torpedoes and ammo. Still, I'm sure Mike was surprised. (I was!)

Nothing else happened down here today. Shortlands will be attacked tomorrow.

SRA

Well, it started off pretty crappy. Ryujo was supposed to protect the area south of Jolo from bad guys, but that doesn't work very well at night.

I had a little TF composed of CA Nachi, CL Niagara and 4 Kagero class DDs in the straights to the east of Balikpapan looking for game. They never realized they were the game. They got run over by Force Z, Boise, Marblehead and the Dutch Flotilla, a BB, BC, 5 CLs and 14 DD. Two destroyers escaped to little damage to the enemy. Nachi has always been my favorite Japanese CA.

Ryujos Kates did attack them during the day, bouncing a few bombs off Repulse and PoW.

The pickings were slim today, sinking an AVP and 3 xAKLs, but all 3 of the cargo ships had troops aboard.

Philippines: Over Manila, 4 of 9 enemy fighters were shot down with a couple more destroyed on the ground by bombers. Where are theses planes coming from? I keep seeing fewer from recon, but more appear each day. I guess I should look on the bright side. It's lots of nice experience for my pilots.

Bataan and Clark Field were both softened up by bomber to prevent forts from being built.

Malaya: Some 7 or so bombers were shot down in return for sinking an xAK and xAKL and damaging another xAK. My fighters didn't fly against Singapore today.

Burma

No contact.

China

My troops bombarded Hong Kong.

I usually abandon Ichang but decided to try and hold it this game. I was able to get enough additional troops there that the Chinese impaled themselves there today.

Other Stuff

Nothing of note.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/21/2019 8:50:08 PM

Mike Solli

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14 Dec 41

Sub War

Lots of action today. Here goes...

Near Mersing, the KXIV sank an xAK.

South of Takao (again!) the Pickerel sank an xAK, but took a couple shells to the hull in return.

South of Swatow, the Sally sank an xAK. I'm beginning to wonder about the "bad" US torpedoes.

South of Balikpapan, the I-158 put a torpedo into xAP Rochambeau. She didn't sink.

Off Kota Bahru, the KXI sank an xAK.

The Tarpon sank a Cmc off Takao. Yes, with a torpedo.

The I-164 sank an xAKL loaded with fuel east of Soerabaja.

See, I told you lots of action.

5 Fleet

Nada.

4 Fleet

In the morning, KB's Vals pummeled the US defenders and airfield destroying a Wildcat on the ground. Zeros shot down 1 of 2 airborne Wildcats. In the afternoon, KB's Kates pummeled Wake's troops, with the escorting Zeros shooting down the lone remaining operational Wildcat.

Bombardment revealed the raw AV for both sides at Wake.

Japanese AV: 35
US AV: 18

SE Fleet

Shortlands Island was liberated. Engineers accompanied the assault force and will begin working on the airfield.....on 16 Jan.

SRA

Philippines: Clark Airfield easily fell to the 48 Division. The remnants of the defenders fled to Manila. Bataan has 1 unit defending and Manila has the rest of the army.

No Zeros flew over Manila. Weather, I suspect.

Malaya: A total of 9 Buffalos and 12 bombers were lost here, at a cost of an xAK sunk and another damaged.

The Japanese tank attack at Johore Bahru got poor odds, but managed to destroy a handful of troops for no loss. My troops are pretty tired though.

Four Japanese DDs managed to sink xAK Ethyl Edwards, loaded with troops. Nice haul.

Burma

Nothing.

China

Japan attacked Hong Kong again, killing 53 squads for just a few disablements and reducing the forts to 1.

Other Stuff

Nothing.

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Post #: 233

RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/21/2019 9:07:14 PM

Mike Solli

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15 Dec 41

Sub War

The Sea Raven sank an xAK where? You guessed it. South of Takao. With what? Yep, a torpedo.

The I-165 ate a depth charge from an AM (embarrassing) off Soerabaja. Damage was slight, but she'll head home for repairs.

I finally broke up the sub concentration around Hawaii. Some are heading to Kwajalein to replenish/refuel and others are headed to other hunting grounds.

5 Fleet

Nothing.

4 Fleet

KB hit Wake one final time and will head to Truk to replenish/refuel and then head to another area (not sure where yet).

I think Wake may be ripe for an attack (which I'll do tomorrow).

Japanese AV: 56
US AV: 16

We'll see how it goes.

Troops landed at Guam.

SE Fleet

Nothing exciting.

SRA

Philippines: Daily air bombing of Bataan and Manila to keep disruption up and prevent fort building. Overall, 6 of 11 enemy fighters were shot down over Manila. Eventually, he'll run out.

Malaya: My fighters failed to sweep Singapore again.

Overall, a single Buffalo and bombers were shot down in various attacks against my shipping. Just about all of my ships have emptied their holds, and are heading out of the area. Mike did drop off some sub mines at Mersing and Takao blundered into one. The damage wasn't serious but she'll still need a little yard time. For the first time, no ships were lost here. A few were damaged, but none seriously.

Burma

Nothing.

China

The attack on Hong Kong netted some 27 enemy squads destroyed and reduced the forts to 0. The end is near.

Other Stuff

Nothing.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/21/2019 10:48:26 PM

Lowpe

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Well that augmented Force Z fleet certainly has told you something about how the Allies are going to play this game!

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/22/2019 8:00:27 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Well that augmented Force Z fleet certainly has told you something about how the Allies are going to play this game!

You have a lot of opportunities here. Might be a good time to go dark and make him guess what's behind the curtain for a while. Give the Allies confidence, then ...

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/22/2019 8:40:17 AM

jdsrae

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He might have read the recent Obvert vs Lowpe AAR.
Be careful what you click near the Soviets Mike!

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 5/22/2019 8:41:02 AM >

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/22/2019 1:35:51 PM

Lowpe

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I meant to say there is only one port where the Prince of Wales can rearm at, and you can set up a trap there even if it is just with I boats.

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RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 5/29/2019 10:34:21 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Philippines: Clark Airfield easily fell to the 48 Division.

Nice. This should weaken his defense there and shorten the Philippine campaign.

quote:

Overall, 6 of 11 enemy fighters were shot down over Manila. Eventually, he'll run out.

Would be better if he runs out of supply, as the replacement AC are costing him.

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Post #: 239

RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J) - 6/16/2019 1:03:20 PM

Mike Solli

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Rusty, I think the Philippines campaign is going to take awhile. All but one of the Allied units there are in Manila, where there is LI. The last one is in Bataan.

Interesting thought about the fighters. It would be better if he uses his supply on fighter replacements, but I doubt that happens. He's too smart and knows that any fighter there is doomed to die.

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Post #: 240

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J)