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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Bill does Japan

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RE: Bill does Japan - 6/16/2019 10:13:33 PM

larryfulkerson

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I have subscribed to this AAR because I hope to learn a lot from what you try to do. I've been playing the Jap side since I started playing this game and I have been trying out various things and I have some humble advice for you.

You can't do it on T1 but on T2 you might want to turn off the shipbuilding of any ships past about mid-44 or so because odds are you'll never receive them in time to influence the game very much.

At the beginning of T2 you might notice that the vehicles category might suffer a massive drop as the various units are filled in with vehicles from the stockpiles of equipment. It might go from 2,000 points to something very much like 500 or so. I've been known to change one of the Armament factories into a Vehicles factory.

There's a lot of cities in China that have minor damage to their facilities but not enough supply to repair them. You might want to turn off the expansion of their facilities until the repairs are done.

Early in the game there's a lot of units from the "Southern Army" that are parked in the home islands that need to be moved to a port so you can move them to the invasion spots when they are needed.

Don't dilly dally on capturing the main oil spots in the DEI. The home islands are going to need that oil and soon. I like to get RES from the places near the home islands like Hakodate, Fusan, Kiejo, etc. Port Arthur puts out oil just fine but I usually leave that oil alone because PA has a refinery and usually runs out of oil after about 8 months to a year of game time. I've had to ship supplementary loads of oil to PA to keep the refinery going.

I usually land in the PI first out of habit: ( Aparri, Vigen, Iba, etc. ). And after Manila falls I usually ship the troops from the PI to Mersing, Malaya to help the takedown of Singapore. While meanwhile moving into the areas north of Java.

Miri the first oil place I try for because it's convienent to Cam Rahn Bay and puts out oil and fuel which comes in handy until the supply and fuel shipments can start to arrive from the home islands.

Bangkok also has a refinery but it starts to run out of oil after about a year or so and I've had to shut down the refinery almost every game for lack of oil.

I've never played past about June, '42 so I don't know much about what happens after that.

I've shut down the Nates and Oscars and I'm building all the Zeros in the world. That and Bettys and Nells. And a trickle of Babs and Emilys. Concentrating on my best planes for combat and using the obsolete planes as trainers.

I like to replace all the biplane spotters with Jakes. I've been culling all the better trained pilots from the training squadrons and stuffing them into the combat squadrons when they reach about 60 but Brian tells me he trains them until they are about 70 before he puts them into combat. I'll use that cutoff from now on.

A lot of the Jap subs have piss poor leaders....I'd replace them if I were you.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/16/2019 10:16:40 PM >

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Post #: 31

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/16/2019 10:25:13 PM

mind_messing

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A few caveats to what Larry said above:

- Repairing damage in China is generally not worth it IMO. It costs 1000 supply to repair damaged industry. If it is light industry, then that's 1000 days to repair, and halved for heavy industry. Consider if you'll actually hold the base years down the line.

- I'd absolutely not support shutting down Oscar production. Most of the IJA fighter strength use Nates, and the Oscar is a significantly better airframe than the Nate. More importantly, the Oscar needs to tide you over till the Tojo or other mid-war IJA airframes.

- Replacing the riff-raff of floatplanes with Jakes is a great idea, its a real Swiss Army knife for the IJN.

- IMO you really need to nurture the cadre of pilots that you start with on Dec 7th, especially before your own pilot training programme kicks off. A radical solution I've found is to take all the fighter squadrons using outdated airframes (Nate, Claude) and send all their pilots to the reserve. The pilots are used as replacements for squadrons with competitive fighters (Oscar, Zero) and the squadrons themselves are immediately turned in to training squadrons. This helps jumpstart your pilot training programme while prevents the Allies from getting easy kills with more modern airframes on outdated airframes like the Nate.

- In addition to replacing captains on IJN subs, do a quick review of capital ship leaders. A few CA's have woeful leaders IIRC. Once you have some political points spare you can swap out leaders on DD's and smaller warships, but starting from the top and working down makes sense.

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Post #: 32

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:25:06 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Tidbit for today: A vestigial oddity of scenario 2 is that Ha-35 engines are used for the Tojo (Ki-44-IIa/b/c). In scenario 1 it's Ha-34. Being as you will want to produce a whole shedload of these planes over the course of the war, you should bear that in mind with allocation of engine production.

Updated Scenario 2 has Ha-34 for the Tojo.

I started a game in December 2018 based upon the latest official patch. My comments were relative to that time frame and are correct for my Sc. 2 'stock' game. Are you referring to a beta patch perhaps or has this 'updated scenario' of which you speak been released in the last 5 months?

ETA: Just checked it again. Confirmed. Ki-44-IIa/b/c on latest official patch use Ha-35.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 6/17/2019 12:28:14 AM >

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Post #: 33

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:40:45 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

- I'd absolutely not support shutting down Oscar production. Most of the IJA fighter strength use Nates, and the Oscar is a significantly better airframe than the Nate. More importantly, the Oscar needs to tide you over till the Tojo or other mid-war IJA airframes.

I wouldn't dedicate more than two factories to Oscar production, like I said. 60 Oscars / month after February 1942 is ample, IMO. True, the Nate is in dire need of replacement, but scenario 2 availability of Oscar Ia, Ib and Ic aircraft (including reserves) can provide that buffer. Don't forget to switch all home islands Oscars to Nates for your training groups. Nates can still serve for a time in China if opposition is minimal.

With scenario 2 expediting of Ki-44-IIa production, you can be in Tojo clover on May 1, 1942. As the Oscar-IIa doesn't come online until August 1942, I'd rather focus on my fighter backbone for my IJAAF in mid-1942-1943. And that's not going to be the Oscar. I still will produce the Oscar IIa, IIb and so on as capable long-distance escort and (later) kamikazes.

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Post #: 34

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:41:13 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I started a game in December 2018 based upon the latest official patch. My comments were relative to that time frame and are correct for my Sc. 2 'stock' game. Are you referring to a beta patch perhaps or has this 'updated scenario' of which you speak been released in the last 5 months?

ETA: Just checked it again. Confirmed. Ki-44-IIa/b/c on latest official patch use Ha-35.

I think it's in the later AndyMac's AI fixes. I'm playing Scen 2 now with Ha-34. I surely did not meddle with the editor for the stock scenario but I did DL some of the AndyMac's latest musings. I like the Ha-34 Tojo, Ha-35 was a long-buried mistake

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Post #: 35

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:44:01 AM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
I started a game in December 2018 based upon the latest official patch. My comments were relative to that time frame and are correct for my Sc. 2 'stock' game. Are you referring to a beta patch perhaps or has this 'updated scenario' of which you speak been released in the last 5 months?

ETA: Just checked it again. Confirmed. Ki-44-IIa/b/c on latest official patch use Ha-35.

I think it's in the later AndyMac's AI fixes. I'm playing Scen 2 now with Ha-34. I surely did not meddle with the editor for the stock scenario but I did DL some of the AndyMac's latest musings. I like the Ha-34 Tojo, Ha-35 was a long-buried mistake

Right. I don't have AndyMac's AI 'musings'. That's not an official patch, so my guess is that Bill has the Ha-35 setup, as opposed to mods like yours. The Ha-34 would make more sense, but I'm just playing the game (and informing others) the way it came and trying not to post confusing information about non-stock game mods.

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Post #: 36

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:49:29 AM

BillBrown

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We are using andymacs updated scenario 2 and the Tojo line uses Nakajima Ha-35 engines.
I have been doing the actual turn so far, not the production. Tomorrow I will really start in on the production.
So far I have looked and I have 70 R&D factories. I probably will be heavily investing in fighter R&D. I am thinking
8 x 6 size 30 R&D factories for fighters. I am not sure which ones, but I am looking at A6, A7, NiK, and J8W1 for the Navy.
Then for the Army I am looking at Ki-43, ki-44, Frank, and Ki-83. Not sure if that is enough, but it is a start. It still
leaves me with 22 more R&D factories for other things.

Comments on that?

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Post #: 37

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 2:22:26 AM

Korvar

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Bill,

I'm working through the updated production primer; hopefully I'll be able to somewhat intelligently comment on 'nuts and bolts' stuff soon. That said, two warnings / words of wisdom that are stressed in the primer:

1. Before touching any production values, always save your game. There's no way to undo changes, and a screw-up means restarting the turn (unless you decide to live with the screw-up).

2. Use the industry screen to make ALL changes - DO NOT use the icons on the base screen. Apparently the base screen will double values. Note - this may have been corrected in a more recent beta update than when this guide was written, so YMMV. Someone with more knowledge of the situation will probably chime in to set the record straight.

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Post #: 38

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:12:35 AM

WingCmdr

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Post #52

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4252977&mpage=4&key=

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2597400&mpage=13&key=

There are many newer sources but this is still similar to Stock 2 so it applies. Share your links.

< Message edited by WingCmdr -- 6/19/2019 12:35:34 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:30:24 AM

Korvar

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The 'Post #52' link has some flow charts which will be helpful for airframe research planning. The third link contains discussion involving the use of the Tracker application. I didn't read in depth yet as I'm still working my way through the production primer document.

Bill,

Are you using Tracker for this game/scenario? If not, it appears to be highly recommended for industry management.

Edit: I re-read post #1 and answered my own question

< Message edited by Korvar -- 6/17/2019 3:51:48 AM >

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Post #: 40

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:48:17 AM

WingCmdr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I have found a new game, hopefully it will go the distance.

So I am sure I will be looking for help, mostly in the production area. I do have tracker up and running
so that will help. But there are decisions I have not have to make concering ships construction and aircraft,
etc. I am sure I will drown in the details, but I will persevere.

Post #1

Sorry BB, this is just too painful.

I quit. Good Luck, I'll be reading and not posting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

The 'Post #52' link has some flow charts which will be helpful for airframe research planning. The third link contains discussion involving the use of the Tracker application. I didn't read in depth yet as I'm still working my way through the production primer document.

Bill,

Are you using Tracker for this game/scenario? If not, it appears to be highly recommended for industry management.

Edit: I re-read post #1 and answered my own question

So why did you post it?

And then you don't correct the tracker statement, after you bothered to edit the post?
(Way past painful, with laughter)

I gotta go...

Puttin on the Ritz

< Message edited by WingCmdr -- 6/19/2019 12:35:53 AM >

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Post #: 41

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 4:00:08 AM

WingCmdr

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From: BS, MT
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Sorry, I don't know how to delete posts.

< Message edited by WingCmdr -- 6/19/2019 12:36:37 AM >

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Post #: 42

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 4:40:20 AM

Anachro

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This link is more up-to-date than my old AAR as a discussion for Japanese air prod. plans

Japanese Air Production Plans

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Post #: 43

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 8:53:01 AM

jdsrae

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I see two reasons to setup research factories:
1. For the obvious purpose of getting that model quicker, mainly fighters. You need to split IJA to IJN. I think it�s a good idea to also pick a main early/mid/late war model fighter for each to build your air defence forces around.
2. To setup a single size 30 factory, usually for the non-fighter types that you want to build. You will want one factory building something of each non-fighter type (except maybe LB)

As everything you click on burns supply, I do both. Mainly #1, but the benefit of #2 is that when the model becomes available to build it doesn�t cost any more supply or time to change a production factory to start building that aircraft. You also get that particular model TR, MB etc a month or two quicker, woohoo!

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 6/17/2019 8:54:14 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 11:12:01 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown
We are using andymacs updated scenario 2 and the Tojo line uses Nakajima Ha-35 engines.
I have been doing the actual turn so far, not the production. Tomorrow I will really start in on the production.
So far I have looked and I have 70 R&D factories. I probably will be heavily investing in fighter R&D. I am thinking
8 x 6 size 30 R&D factories for fighters. I am not sure which ones, but I am looking at A6, A7, NiK, and J8W1 for the Navy.
Then for the Army I am looking at Ki-43, ki-44, Frank, and Ki-83. Not sure if that is enough, but it is a start. It still
leaves me with 22 more R&D factories for other things.

Comments on that?

There is no indication in the thread if you have PDU On or Off. R&D heavily depends on that. It also depends a lot on the dates of arrival and update chains in the particular scenario. I advise you to plot those for the fighters in your scenario (earlier I've written how to do it in the game) and only then think about the R&D setup

There are always loads of discussions about optimal R&D, and loads of different opinions. Some recent ones here. I remember more useful threads but forum search is wacky today
Japanese Air Production Plans?: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4313954
"Japan Airframe and Engine Planner" spreadsheet: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3200810

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Post #: 45

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:16:39 PM

BillBrown

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I am so sorry, PDU is ON

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Post #: 46

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 12:25:12 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

We are using andymacs updated scenario 2 and the Tojo line uses Nakajima Ha-35 engines.
I have been doing the actual turn so far, not the production. Tomorrow I will really start in on the production.
So far I have looked and I have 70 R&D factories. I probably will be heavily investing in fighter R&D. I am thinking
8 x 6 size 30 R&D factories for fighters. I am not sure which ones, but I am looking at A6, A7, NiK, and J8W1 for the Navy.
Then for the Army I am looking at Ki-43, ki-44, Frank, and Ki-83. Not sure if that is enough, but it is a start. It still
leaves me with 22 more R&D factories for other things.

Comments on that?

Sounds good.

I suggest going for the Ki-43 or Ki-44, not both. Both airframes are solid early to mid game airframes that really fall off after mid 1943. I'd cut one out and put the freed up factories into the Frank.

The Zero tree also falls off a cliff big time. IMO it's worth pushing R&D for the first model with armour (IIRC the A6M5c model) and then putting everything onto the Sam.

Other airframes to consider:

Ki-45 - Good fighter-bomber for 1942 to 1943
Ki-102a - solid 2E IJA fighter with good 4E capability.
Ki-100 - Rock-steady IJA fighter that's easy to keep flying. Arrives in 1945 but can be activated much earlier with R&D chaining.

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Post #: 47

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 1:33:48 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

An Alternate Title for this AAR: Gents, Here are Many Reasons Not to Play as the Japanese Side

This made my day!

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Post #: 48

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 2:16:52 PM

BillBrown

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I am surprised that no one has made the connection of my tread title and a porn flick.

Everyone must be clean living people.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 6/17/2019 2:17:21 PM >

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Post #: 49

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 2:32:19 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am surprised that no one has made the connection of my tread title and a porn flick.

Everyone must be clean living people.

It doesn't have the alliteration of 'Debbie Does Dallas'. Perhaps 'Bill Brings Banzai'?

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Post #: 50

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:17:17 PM

btd64

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am surprised that no one has made the connection of my tread title and a porn flick.

Everyone must be clean living people.

It doesn't have the alliteration of 'Debbie Does Dallas'. Perhaps 'Bill Brings Banzai'?

"Bill brings Banzai" Nice....GP

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RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:28:07 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am surprised that no one has made the connection of my tread title and a porn flick.

Everyone must be clean living people.

Got it.

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Post #: 52

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:53:47 PM

Bif1961

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Good Luck will be following with high interest.

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Post #: 53

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:54:26 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am surprised that no one has made the connection of my tread title and a porn flick.

Everyone must be clean living people.

Yes, we understood - you are proactively explaining all your f***-ups.

Attachment (1)

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Bill Brings Banzai - 6/17/2019 3:54:30 PM

BillBrown

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Thread title change.

So a question here, how many Frank R&D factories are recomended? I thought about 6 size 30( there is one that starts at 55 ). Should I have more?

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Post #: 55

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 3:58:28 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

We are using andymacs updated scenario 2 and the Tojo line uses Nakajima Ha-35 engines.
I have been doing the actual turn so far, not the production. Tomorrow I will really start in on the production.
So far I have looked and I have 70 R&D factories. I probably will be heavily investing in fighter R&D. I am thinking
8 x 6 size 30 R&D factories for fighters. I am not sure which ones, but I am looking at A6, A7, NiK, and J8W1 for the Navy.
Then for the Army I am looking at Ki-43, ki-44, Frank, and Ki-83. Not sure if that is enough, but it is a start. It still
leaves me with 22 more R&D factories for other things.

Comments on that?

Sounds good.

I suggest going for the Ki-43 or Ki-44, not both. Both airframes are solid early to mid game airframes that really fall off after mid 1943. I'd cut one out and put the freed up factories into the Frank.

The Zero tree also falls off a cliff big time. IMO it's worth pushing R&D for the first model with armour (IIRC the A6M5c model) and then putting everything onto the Sam.

Other airframes to consider:

Ki-45 - Good fighter-bomber for 1942 to 1943
Ki-102a - solid 2E IJA fighter with good 4E capability.
Ki-100 - Rock-steady IJA fighter that's easy to keep flying. Arrives in 1945 but can be activated much earlier with R&D chaining.

10 R&D Factories on Frank A; 10 R&D Factories on Sam. These are the two most important planes Japan gets.

For early game expansion you want the A6M3a, Oscar IIa and Tojo A.

Look at Night Fighters.

For bombers look at Judy, Jill, Grace. Everything else doesn't really matter with the exception of perhaps Peggy T and the Lilly dive bomber.

End game fighter: Scen 2 so pick one for each service: Shinden? Ki94 or Ki83? Start with 3-5 factories and enhance as other r&d concludes.

Nick is incredibly useful and you can switch almost all light bomber squadrons to it for a PP price.

Dedicated Kamikazes look interesting but probably only marginally useful.

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Post #: 56

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 4:04:14 PM

BillBrown

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Thank you Lowpe, that is very useful information. I will now pull the blanket over my head and cogitate.

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Post #: 57

RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/17/2019 4:06:06 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Thread title change.

Equally good!

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Post #: 58

RE: Bill does Japan - 6/17/2019 4:06:26 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korvar

Bill,

I'm working through the updated production primer; hopefully I'll be able to somewhat intelligently comment on 'nuts and bolts' stuff soon. That said, two warnings / words of wisdom that are stressed in the primer:

1. Before touching any production values, always save your game. There's no way to undo changes, and a screw-up means restarting the turn (unless you decide to live with the screw-up).

2. Use the industry screen to make ALL changes - DO NOT use the icons on the base screen. Apparently the base screen will double values. Note - this may have been corrected in a more recent beta update than when this guide was written, so YMMV. Someone with more knowledge of the situation will probably chime in to set the record straight.

Hear hear!

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Post #: 59

RE: Bill Brings Banzai - 6/17/2019 4:13:01 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Thread title change.

So a question here, how many Frank R&D factories are recomended? I thought about 6 size 30( there is one that starts at 55 ). Should I have more?

Bill: With non-historical R&D capabilities, you can really accelerate some mid-late model airframes. Maybe even moreso than you are comfortable. For example, would you feel 'comfortable' from a realism perspective bringing late 1944-early 1945 airframes into early 1943 or would such a leapfrog in technology rub you the wrong way? Would you feel comfortable using the 'exploits' of the research tree to accomplish such things or do you have a bent to consider?

If you're an 'anything goes' sort of guy, this does have a bearing on your research commitments and numbers of research factories to use on these airframe and engine paths. But we need to know how you feel philosophically about this moving forward before recommending anything hard and fast.

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